Special characters with multiple close combat weapons. - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Deathula's Avatar
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    Special characters with multiple close combat weapons.

    If you have a HQ, say Lucius. Who has more than one attack, and he also as 2 close combat weapons. Would that model still get an extra attack, or is it already included in the profile.


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    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    If extra attacks from special rules or wargear were already included in the profile, the character's entry would say so.
    "It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
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    Son of LO kevin vanrooyen's Avatar
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    Yeah, the character would normally get an extra attack, however sometimes there will be something like this:

    A:4

    Weapons: pistol, ccw (bonus attack already included...)

    or:

    A:3(4)

    Weapons: pistol, ccw (bonus attack already included...)


    So unless it is specifically stated that the bonus attack is already included in the profile then they will get an extra attack from 2 CC weapons.

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    Senior Member Deathula's Avatar
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    OK cool, I wasn't sure since he has power sword, and lash/whip (not the psychic attack).
    I had a game a few weeks ago, and I started to feel like I cheated a really nice guy after the fact. Glad I didn't cause I would feel really bad about that.

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    Senior Member SkyDog's Avatar
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    I'm realy glad you started this thread, I didn't know that.

    I always thought characters that didn't have gear options had things like that automaticly included in their profiles.

    I often include Dante and or Mephiston in my BA army but never counted the extra attack. (Holy freaking crap. Mephiston just got even more killy!)

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    The main thing to remember is that you only get the bonus for an extra CCW if the weapon is normal (chainswords, pistol, etc.). If the weapons are special, including power weapons and other things that have specific rules (lashes/whips?), the rules are different. The rules are on pg. 42, under Close Combat Weapons - "Fighting With Two Single-Handed Weapons".

    If lashes/whips count as special, then you would not get a bonus attack for using a power sword and a lash/whip, unless the lash/whip said so.

  9. #7
    Son of LO psichotykwyrm's Avatar
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    443 (x8)

    Except I'm fairly sure that Lucius' whip states, "is a close combat weapon that...".

    Dude should get the extra attack.
    "It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
    ---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes

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    Quote Originally Posted by psichotykwyrm View Post
    Except I'm fairly sure that Lucius' whip states, "is a close combat weapon that...".
    This entire post has been edited after further research into the Codex and the use of Army Builder. Initially, it seemed as if Lash of Torment was (per RAW) not a normal CCW and therefore not subject to the rules of them. However, the CSM Codex does mention "Close Combat Weapons" under the same context as "Normal Close Combat Weapons" found in the core book. In addition, AB lists Lucius attacks in a X/Y format on his stat-line, granting him the bonus attack.

    Thus, I must retract my initial argument and admit that, whether RAI or interpretation of RAW, Lucius' Lash does indeed count as a normal CCW and provide an extra attack.
    Last edited by XIII; January 4th, 2011 at 17:07. Reason: Edited due to further research.

  11. #9
    Orks_n_Bugs Bugs_n_Orks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XIII View Post
    The problem is, it's not enough to just be a close combat weapon... it has to be a normal close combat weapon, per the examples in the main book. Other than pistols (which are just ranged weapons that can double as normal CCW), normal CCWs have no special rules. Special CCWs are those that have rules and/or added effects, and have their own limitations on whether you get an extra attack when using multiple CCWs. One limitation is that you do not receive a bonus attack when wielding two different special CCWs, unless one of the CCWs says differently.

    As Lucius is already using a special CCW (Power Sword), the second weapon he is wielding must either be: A: another Power Sword, B: a normal CCW, or C: a special CCW that says it allows an extra attack. We know that the Lash of Torment is not A, and since it has special rules we know it is also not B. Checking to see if it is C is the the part that becomes open to interpretation, but if we go specifically by RAW, then I'd have to say "no".

    It says the Lash of Torment "counts as a [CCW]", but not that it counts as a normal CCW. This could simply be a reference to rules that may affect any CCW (normal or special), although I don't have specific examples. Thus, the RAW conclusion would be that it counts as a CCW of the "special" sub-type and is subject to the limitations on the use of two different special CCWs.
    I think this is a bit of a stretch. I'm a DE player and most of the assault units in my codex are armed with a splinter pistol and CCW. If I swap my pistol for a Power Weapon/etc are you going to argue that I don't get an extra attack because it's not specifically listed as a "normal CCW". I'd say that if the lash's rules read that it counts as a CCW, then when you go to calculate attacks pretend that it just say CCW and do whatever you'd normally do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugs_n_Orks View Post
    If I swap my pistol for a Power Weapon/etc are you going to argue that I don't get an extra attack because it's not specifically listed as a "normal CCW".
    There's a difference, though, in that you would be switching [CCW + Pistol] to [CCW + Special Weapon], which still grants the bonus attack. What I was referring to would be like swapping [CCW + Pistol] to [Power Sword + Power Fist].

    Still, as noted in my edited post, I now concur that "counts as CCW" means "counts as normal CCW", thus granting the additional attack.

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