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    New Player Rules Questions

    Hey guys,
    I just got into Warhammer a few weeks ago with a buddy who also wanted to play (but has never played) after buying the Island of Blood starter set. I also downloaded the Skaven and High Elf special rules sheets, so I'm aware of those. I read the whole rulebook, and we've played a few games now, and then I re-read the entire rulebook again. Now I have a few random questions.... they might be answered throughout these forums, but I figured I'd ask them all in one place here... so, here they are;

    1) Can only characters make challenges? Or can a Champion also challenge another champion?

    2) HE Seaguard flank my rats. I am not allowed to make supporting attacks. Can the Seaguard only kill what they are in contact with? So in this case, would only be able to kill the 4 units he is in contact with? Or if he rolls 15 dice, could he hypothetically kill 15 clan rats? I guess the same would go for a face-to-face melee. Can you only kill what the bases could hit? Or do you just kill models in the unit based however many dice show up as hits.

    3) If I put my poison wind mortars in the back row of a unit of clan rats, can they shoot using the clan rat line of sight? Same question with the wizard. Can he go in the back row, and can he use the clanrat line of sight if shooting a magic missle, or template weapon?

    4) If my clanrats fight his Sea Guard and they lose by 7 (5 casualties to 0, charged in the flank). The steadfast rule activates because I still have 3 ranks of 5. So would I make a roll of 7 unmodified leadership (my general with LDR 7 is nearby). Or would I make a roll of 9 (7 base, plus 2 for the Skaven Strength in numbers rule). Additionally, could that "unmodified" steadfast roll of 7 be modified further by any other special rules? ie, a spell that grants extra leadership)

    Thanks guys! Any help would be great.

    Last edited by JohnnyEdge; January 28th, 2015 at 23:38.

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    Afraid I don't have my rule book to hand, but I'll have a go anyway.

    1) I believe champions can challenge. Then again, it's possible I've been playing wrong, because I still have to remind myself that unit champions aren't characters any more. I'd have thought this should be clear in the BRB.

    2) Kill as many as you can, assuming there are enough enemy models remaining to remove as casualties - being in base contact doesn't matter.

    3) Not really sure about special rules for Skaven. In general, a wizard won't be able to go in a rear rank - he has to go in the front if possible (i.e. unless it's full of command group and other characters). If he's not in the front, you still have to use his line of sight - he can't use the troops in front of him as if they were arc nodes (as in Warmachine). That said, I don't think his line of sight is automatically blocked simply because there's a rank of troops in front of him - there's a good chance he can see past them.

    4) I'm not really clear on the situation being described - if you're disrupted, you lose your ranks. But, assuming you have steadfast, the way I've always seen it played is that you can use the general's Ld with your rank bonus, so test on 9 (in this case). Again, I don't have the Skaven book, so can't be sure if that's how it's supposed to work, but it feels right!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyEdge View Post
    1) Can only characters make challenges? Or can a Champion also challenge another champion?
    Yes, a Champion can issue/accept any challenges.
    pg 102: Challenges (paragraph 2)
    The player issuing the challenge nominates one of his character or champion models to issue the challenge.
    2) HE Seaguard flank my rats. I am not allowed to make supporting attacks. Can the Seaguard only kill what they are in contact with?
    The fact that your Rats cannot make supporting attacks makes absolutely no difference to his Seaguard. Why would it? It's the penalty for getting flanked. First however, it's worth noting that you do get to make supporting attacks while flanked - you just cannot ever make supporting attacks to the side or rear. Only the front - so for example, if you were fighting a regiment of Archers up front, and then he charged you in the side with Seaguard, your first two ranks could all targe the Archers as normal.

    To answer the original question though - yes. He can kill 15 Clan Rats if he makes 15 attacks (remember that he can only attack with/through models who are in base contact with the enemy).
    page 51, 'Remove Casualties', second paragraph
    It can sometimes happen that a model causes more casualties than it has enemies in base contact. The excess casualties are removed as normal from the unit as a whole, representing the attackers fighting over fallen foes.
    3) If I put my poison wind mortars in the back row of a unit of clan rats, can they shoot using the clan rat line of sight?
    This should not even be a question - you cannot join a unit of Clanrats with a Weapons Team. They are deployed at the same time, and must be deployed within 3" of the "attached" Clan Rat unit, but they are considered to be entirely separate units in every other regard.
    Skaven Rulebook, page 60, 'Weapons Teams' - 'Attached Unit'
    A Weapon Team must be deployed at the same time and within 3" of the unit it was bought with (also known as it's parent unit). After this the Weapon Team is free to move and counts as a normal unit for all purposes.
    However, the rules for Poison Wind Mortars do allow them to use the Parent Unit's Line of Sight if they are within 3" of their Parent Unit. So in a sense, yes, your Mortars could fire from behind the Clan Rats, but it could not be "in the back rank" of the Clanrat unit - they are still separate units, and must therefore remain at least 1" apart.

    Same question with the wizard. Can he go in the back row, and can he use the clanrat line of sight if shooting a magic missile, or template weapon?
    No. Characters never use the Unit's Line of Sight. They always use their own, and therefore, if the character is in the back rank, he will not have Line of Sight to anyone except his own unit. Note that not all spells require Line of Sight (although Magic Missiles do) and you can always summon a Vortex, even into friendlies or into combat - it is placed at the start of the Wizard's own base (in this case, right on top of his heretofore "friendly" unit).

    4) If my clanrats fight his Sea Guard and they lose by 7 (5 casualties to 0, charged in the flank). The steadfast rule activates because I still have 3 ranks of 5. So would I make a roll of 7 unmodified leadership (my general with LDR 7 is nearby). Or would I make a roll of 9 (7 base, plus 2 for the Skaven Strength in numbers rule). Additionally, could that "unmodified" steadfast roll of 7 be modified further by any other special rules? ie, a spell that grants extra leadership)
    Multi-part question! Okay, firstly, remember that you don't need 3 ranks to be Steadfast; just more ranks than the enemy. It is actually possible to be "Steadfast" with just a single rank of 5 models, provided your enemy has no ranks (this often happens against Chariots, Monsters, and solo-characters like dragon riders).
    If you are Steadfast, you are considered 'Stubborn', which means that you treat all Combat Results as being effectively a "difference of 0, loss". You still have to take a break check, but the combat results to do not cause you any modifiers.

    Part 2: Strength in Numbers
    You don't get this rule if your Rank Bonus has been negated - as would be the case if you were charged in the flank/rear by an enemy with 2+ ranks of their own (this includes the first rank, so usually, at least 10 models 2x5).
    Skaven Rulebook, page 33 'Strength in Numbers' last paragraph
    If for any reason a Skaven unit loses its rank bonus, it also loses its Leadership bonus. For instance, fleeing units do not have a rank bonus, so fleeing Skaven must use their basic Leadership.
    3. Can that roll be modified by any other special rules, ie a spell that grants extra leadership
    Yes. If you have a spell/banner or effect which grants a leadership modifier - either positive or negative, it will apply here. Remember that some of these modifiers effect the unit's actual Leadership, and others apply penalties directly to the rolls. A good example might be an item like the (fake)
    "Banner of Leadership" - the unit has +1 Leadership.
    This would apply to the Unit. Therefore, every model in the unit gets a +1 bonus to their Leadership value. If you choose to use the General's "Inspiring Presence" rule, and he is not also within the unit (and therefore not subject to the banner effect) then you would not have the +1 bonus to your roll (if the general's LD was 9, then you would need to roll a 9 to pass, not a 10 for example).
    However, the spell 'Doom of Darkness' applies a -3 modifier to leadership rolls, meaning that any time the target makes a leadership test, using any leadership, the roll itself is modified. So even if your General was not part of the target unit, a unit using his Inspiring Presence under the effects of Doom and Darkness would need to roll a 6 to pass, even with his Ld9, because the roll itself is modified by 3.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

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