Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSarathai View Post
...Has anyone "come around" to playing Age of Sigmar yet, or are we all still just hate-mongering this game into the ground?
Interesting video in the other thread, and like you I really like the insight it brought to the game.

I think that the video basically reinforces the fact that this is purely a model driven game, and thatís what appears to be the difficulty for people when trying to compare it against whfb.

The first rule should be look at the model.

Come round... now thereís a term. I was always willing to give it a shot, but clearly itís not Warhammer as we know it, but itís here for the present time and you may as well just roll with it or get off and stop bleating. I could hate monger, but unless I jump ship and play KoW or similar, I donít see the point of rage quitting only to play malifaux or warmachine etc.

ďBut kaleb, this is right up your street Ė youíre a hobbyist and fluffiest first..Ē
Sure I am, but I like a structure and framework to build my army to. Infuriatingly I can totally see what they tried to do, and also what the hidden jewels are, but somehow I canít help thinking that itís got lost in translation along the way.

The warscrolls are a great idea, and you could have army books being nothing more than fluff / formation / plot advancements, in this way the world can evolve, characters and maps can be replaced or change without the mess weíve seen of old where this didnít happen or that was always there because-new book. It could be so fluid and work so well.

Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSarathai View Post
I'm waiting to see how it shakes out, actually - for two reasons:

1) The rumors that a Heresy-era game is coming to 40k, basically "plastic 30k" but that it will have rules very similar to AoS. I think that the AoS rules would fit beautifully with 40k. It's not a bad system (once you work out some kind of balance), when looked at on it's own. Everyone's big gripe (and a valid one) is that they've destroyed everything we knew and loved about WHFB.
I do so agree with this. AoS could and should have been an amazing feeder into a more complex game, and yes, the destruction didnít need to happen. There is nothing that I have read so far that could not have happened in the old world post end times. New map, new factions, new alliances, realmgates, different worlds the lot. It was all there for the taking, and could have been done so very elegantly. Instead in order to rid the apartment block of a mouse, we demolished the building to the ground and realised that the tenants havenít got anywhere to live apart from the refugee centre theyíve just put up until the new block is built.

WHWís own even just puts a comp of 100 models in its event pack Ė great. My wallet beats your wallet.

Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSarathai View Post
2) The Legacy armies are very odd. The faster they can get through the updated scrolls, the better. But I don't think they will. I think AoS has already died in the water, to be quite honest. But the problem at the moment, with the Legacy stuff, is that it's balanced around "all being there". The newer stuff, if I recall - is much better in Shooting than Melee, and vice-versa. It's not quite so bad as what happened with our gunlines. The best way to think about it, is that there are NO MORE "Core" choices in AoS. Things like Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen compared to DarkShard Spears are a thing of the past. Now everything is like comparing HE Sisters of Asuryan to Swordmasters - it either shoots really well, or it fights really well. There's no more "basic guy with a bow" anymore.
Correct again about the legacy armies, and in truth we were told this at the beginning. GW pledged to us that all of our miniatures can be used Ė nobody said anything about the armies, nor did they promise anything of the sort. And they did say that as time went on the existing ďarmiesĒ would be more and more compromised.

However... I was speaking to my friend who works up at Nottingham, and there was a very interesting conversation that grew, and it was this;

Internally itís all a bit of a mess at the moment, rules writing / mini design / painting studio / product strategy really donít talk to each other. He also mentioned that for the foreseeable aside from reboxing and rebasing not a lot if anything will be delete.

Now looking at it from a different angle, we all know that the whfb 9th rulebook and army books have mostly been written, and lets face it, if it all tanks, then sigmar does his thing, beats back chaos, and creates a new world with all the survivors, and hey what do you know, thereís a big fat new rules set to go with it.

I think garagehammer summed it up perfectly when they said that AoS succeded in one thing above all else and it was this;
AoS has made people who were blind to anything other than GW suddenly realise or consider a big new world of alternatives out there.

I totally agree about the core choice need, short of liking warriors or having lots of them why have them over chosen?
But also it does allow us to field the army of our choice if we so wanted, but again we could have had this in the regular rules Ė i donít know, perhaps saying that anything outside of its own slot outside of core (special/ rare)carries a loading of +100% to use? (you have a good sense of balance and could probably come up with a way better Ďtake what you like but hereís the priceí model).

I can field the blood charge list I always wanted to field, chaos knights and juggers and horsemen Ė it looks awesome and the Warhammer world 100 model rule means I can show up with my collection of 16 skullcrushers, 16 bloodcrushers, 10 knights, 25 marauder horsemen, 3 gorebeast chariots and warshrine perfectly feasibly. But I know that someone will basically bring down a world of greater daemons and other hugeness. However if I had them Iíd still love to take 90 bret peasant bowmen, trebuchets and a paladin!

Thatís why for me Iím still struggling, I need and want the structure even at a very simple level.

Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSarathai View Post
It gives me some faith in AoS, actually, but like I said - I think GW has already come pretty close to pulling the plug on it. Also, the prices are ridiculous - models are hitting somewhere around the $6-12 each for units. That's kinda dumb, so much for "lower barrier of entry". But if they could get through giving us proper updates for the other factions, I think the game will actually balance itself out nicely.
I think we play the 40k line of argument on this one. They argue cost vs fantasy yet the costs are hidden, and have not got cheaper. The model count can be perceptibly less, but the cost as you say is still there. The only difference is that now like 40k a box is essentially a squad and all you need to get going.

Iím going to reserve judgment until all factions and realmgate war books are out. We wonít know what the hell the intent is until all the AoS era stuff is packaged up and on the shelves. AoS has been a vanity project in every sense of the word but cleverly it can be U turned without retcon. Itís not an un-enjoyable game, and itís all we have if we want to keep on the ship, but itís not Warhammer,and I suppose like many I'm still in a state of mourning for that.