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  1. #1
    Not dead yet father-chaos's Avatar
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    1104 (x8)

    Bretonnian army for Age of Sigmar - A WIP

    Hello *cough* all *cough*

    Wow, there is a lot of dust sitting around here. Time to dust it off and move forward with a new project. I have undertaken a challenge with my son where we are both creating a small force to begin with and then move from there to grand armies each by the end of the summer (fingers crossed)

    For now this list will be based on wounds and what looks good but @CaptainSarathai I have seen your link to points values (I tip my hat to you sir for even undertaking this... a gentleman and a scholar) and I will be reading this shortly to apply my list to this as well down the road.

    So to Start we are working towards 50 wounds each and then move up to 80 wounds. I figure this will be enough models on the field to keep it interesting, learn the game, and not lose the interest of a 6 year old. For the first 50 we will limit war machines and lord/hero characters to less than 15 wounds.

    Bretonnian Lord (5)

    8 KotR (16)

    Paladin on Foot (5)

    12 - Archers (12)

    6 - Questing Knights (12)

    Not much of an intellectual list at this moment but I think this should be enough to get the ball rolling, learn the system and grow from here. Any thoughts on how you have dealt with Age of Sigmar games and bridged the gap from the old fantasy styles would be appreciated.

    Regards,

    (Also on a side note. We may need to add a new prefix for the Age of Sigmar lists. Just a thought.)

    "The beatings will continue until morale improves."
    New Age of Sigmar
    Warriors of Chaos Project, Bretonian-Tale-of-Gamer-Project

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  3. #2
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    1480 (x8)

    Balance for AoS is getting real weird. While I'd like to see a lot more people use my method, there are others out there that folks have been using. I link them over and explain them somewhat, here:
    https://www.librarium-online.com/foru...explained.html
    'Clash' comp is what I've seen becoming the most popular, including in tournaments and the like. It's sort of a points-based system, except that you buy the models in presized groups and pay for them by block rather than individually. Personally, I think that it could be done even better, but I'm getting a bit frustrated with attempting to get people to sign on to comp solutions - there are about a million of them floating around the web, and what we need, is someone to come along and just pick one to be standard. If people are leaning towards Clash, I'm fine with that - it's not perfect, but it's popular. We can work on balancing it out once everyone is on the same page.

    In terms of bridging the gap, I have rules for what I call 'Realmgate Legions' in the thread in my sig, which is an attempt to make AoS seem a bit more like 8th, but to be entirely honest, those rules are really more of a solidifying of the way AoS actually plays if you were to field your units in blocks rather than just tossing them in mobs on the table. If you want to play it like 'Squarehamer' you totally can. Otherwise, the mobs work fine and there are some really neat tactics that you can use to exploit the way that units are forced to move and interact. There's a good YouTube video of some basic ones, in this thread:
    https://www.librarium-online.com/foru...tics-what.html

    I put up a post about my own experiences with the game - usual wall of text and all that
    https://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post2763633
    The three biggest pieces of advice I can give in the "short version" is this:
    First, because players take it in turn to activate units to make their attacks, the only way to guarantee that you will hit before the enemy is to have only one combat active at a time. If you must have more than one unit in combat, be prepared for your enemy to attack before you. This is why the 3" Retreat move is such an important rule. You can pull a unit from combat during the Move phase, and then charge another unit in elsewhere, allowing you to dictate which units are fighting.

    Secondly, keep in mind that everything has a 12" charge range. Cavalry, Infantry - everything, because you only roll 2D6. So if you line up a charge against your opponent and fail, you will have set yourself up for a guaranteed counter charge. Now, it is possible to move through units if your bases are small enough. You can move through a unit, but not over a base (and you cannot move through enemy units). Depending on coherency, it's possible to move and charge "through" your own units (but not enemies). It's always possible to move out of the way before a charge though - so it's a good idea to put some kind of chaff unit (like Peasants) in between the enemy and a unit you want to charge, screening your advance as you move closer.

    Third and lastly, the turn order. The advantage goes to the player who takes the second turn. Because you dice off at the start of each game turn to determine the active player, going second gives you a shot at getting two turns consecutively. This can save you, if you've failed a charge or put yourself in a bad position. It also allows you to make these kinds of gambles. Either way, your opponent can guarantee that if you choose to go second in each turn, there is no chance of them getting to act twice - they have to always be prepared for the chance that you get to take consecutive turns. It gives you the initiative.

    As far as your list, I'd use the Peasant Bowmen as your chaff and screen unit. They can advance ahead of the army and can shoot so that they don't lose effectiveness. They'll slow your Knights down though, so it might not be a bad idea to try swapping them (and the foot Pally) to get some Yeomen into the army. Faster, but same job as the Archers.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  4. #3
    Not dead yet father-chaos's Avatar
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    1104 (x8)

    So I have waged war in the Age of Sigmar for the first time with Bretonnians and I must say that the experience was not as harsh as I first thought (Battling with your buddies helps out with that). But I quickly realized that making lists based on wounds can have a huge impact on some of the armies out there (WoC for instance may have a hard time with this). We played with 80 wounds with a limit of 24 wounds in characters, 0-2 Monsters, 0-2 War machines.

    I brought:
    Bretonnian Lord on Pegasus
    The Fay Enchantress
    Green Knight
    Paladin on Foot
    6 Grail Knights
    6 KotR
    3 Pegasus Knights
    14 Bowmen
    Trebuchet

    My opponent brought to the field a mix of Ogre and Orcs.
    Gorbad Ironclaw
    6 Boar Boyz
    Boar Chariot
    Stonehorn
    3 Mournfang Cavalry
    6 Ironguts

    Turn 1

    Saw the Bretonnians take to the field first. Not much to say here other than moving around to set up for next turn charges (in hindsight I may have left my PK's a little too open early on). The archers were out of range at the onset but the Trebuchet did land a hit on the Ironguts but came away not wounding anything. Oh, and the Green Knight sat this one out for now. Magic saw the Fay casting shield and Hit bonus on my grail knights.

    Orcs/Ogres - again nothing more than movement where he overloaded the left side of his table side and even though I had thought my Pegasus Knights were not in trouble but then at the end of the turn we rolled off for who goes first in turn 2 and it was the Orcs and Ogres turn to charge in.

    Turn 2

    Orcs/Ogres - moved the chariot around the tower to set up for a charge on my Treb and then robed me of all of my charges (it was a risk but oh well). The Mournfang charge my Grail Knights while the Ironguts slammed into my KotR while the Stonehorn met with my Pegasus Knights. Combat saw my Grail Knights hold their own taking one Mournfang down while only losing one of their ranks. the KotR lost four to only wounding one Irongut by 2, and the Stonehorn quite effectively removed my Pegasus knights from the field. Bad rolling and even worse luck in that combat.

    Brets - So the time for righteous vengeance was at hand. The Fay Enchantress removed an Irongut with Arcane Bolt and once again gave Favour of the Fay to the Grail Knights. The Green knight arrived behind the Mournfang and his charge saw one more of the ogre cavalry fall while the Grail Knights ended the last of them. The Ironguts failed to wound the last two KotR and in turn they failed to wound back. The trebuchet finally found its mark by removing five of the six Boar Boyz and saw the last one flee the battle. and the bowmen using Arrowstorm brought the Stonehorn down by 4 wounds. My Lord and Paladin had charged in to bring the beast down further wounding him for an additional 6 wounds. My lord took a devastating hit though and was brought down to a single wound left.

    We rolled for turn 3 and the luck of the Lady held out and saw the Bretonnians with the upper hand.

    Turn 3

    Brets - The last of the KotR were removed in combat with the Ironguts and the Grail Knights and Green Knight did not arrive in time to rescue them but did make short work of the remainder of the Ironguts. Bowmen removed the Chariot before it could hit the trebuchet and the trebuchet landed a couple more wounds against the Stonehorn before the beast struck down the Lord. It was the Paladin on foot who removed the beast from combat leaving Gorbad all by himself in the back field.

    My buddy quickly shook my hand and conceded to what would be a chase which would see the last of his army decimated.

    So all in total it was a fun game but I may look at going either peasantry strong or knight strong but I think that the Bowmen have earned a place in the list for now. I may have to bring them up to 20 strong though to get the max out of the Arrowstorm.

    Reagrds,
    "The beatings will continue until morale improves."
    New Age of Sigmar
    Warriors of Chaos Project, Bretonian-Tale-of-Gamer-Project

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  6. #4
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    It does sound like the random initiative thing works quite well in making sure you can't be certain who will get to charge who. I guess that better resembles a real life situation where the armies are moving simultaneously.

  7. #5
    LO Zealot MDSW's Avatar
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    So nice to see the Brets in current action!

    So, have you have worked out any amazing fluff for the Brets in AoS times?
    Three Roads Dreamt - My novella collection is now available! Action Suspense, Fantasy and Sci-Fi


  8. #6
    Not dead yet father-chaos's Avatar
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    There are a few things that I have in the oven for fluff. I have been working on researching the End Times as I unplugged from the hobby while that hit so once I get the full time line put together I am hoping to fill in the gaps from 8th to AoS. The rematch has been set for next Friday at 120 wounds. So far this is what I am looking to bring:

    King Louen
    Lord on Pegasus
    Paladin (Lord) on Pegasus
    Damsel on Pegasus
    Paladin on Foot

    6 Grail Knights
    6 Grail Knights
    6 KotR
    6 Questing Knights
    3 Pegasus Knights

    20 Bowmen (Worth their weight)
    1 Trebuchet (I need to find another one of these guys)

    The idea here is to hit with multiple small units of knights so that I can control combat a little more if I outnumber his unit count while weakening some of his bigger units with the Treb and Bowmen.

    What do you guys think?

    Regards,
    "The beatings will continue until morale improves."
    New Age of Sigmar
    Warriors of Chaos Project, Bretonian-Tale-of-Gamer-Project

  9. #7
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    1480 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by father-chaos View Post
    So I have waged war in the Age of Sigmar for the first time with Bretonnians and I must say that the experience was not as harsh as I first thought (Battling with your buddies helps out with that). But I quickly realized that making lists based on wounds can have a huge impact on some of the armies out there (WoC for instance may have a hard time with this). We played with 80 wounds with a limit of 24 wounds in characters, 0-2 Monsters, 0-2 War machines.
    Balancing by wounds is generally considered to be the weakest comp method available. It doesn't really mess with armies any more than what the old points system did (WoC was weaker in smaller games, because of their expensive units). It does sort of lump everything very closely together - a Chaos Warrior costs the same number of wounds as a Bret Knight, but the stats are actually pretty close. I ran all of the armies through a formula, and iirc, the two came out very close in costs even with the formula applied. AoS is actually relatively balanced, by wounds.
    The problem is that you lose "legacy" models. Why take a unit of Men at Arms when you can take a huge block of Pilgrims? Skaven Slaves instead of Clanrats? Zombies over Skeletons or Ghouls?

    It does sound like the random initiative thing works quite well in making sure you can't be certain who will get to charge who. I guess that better resembles a real life situation where the armies are moving simultaneously.
    It does, and it adds a nice tactical edge to the game. The player who wins the roll at the start of each turn chooses who goes first. So it's often better to choose to go second, on the chance that you win the next roll and get a double-turn. Getting your moves in back-to-back is awesome.
    What I think really does a really good job of simulating the "simultaneous action" is the fact that players take turns nominating units to attack. I pick one of my units to fight in combat, and then you pick one of yours. It does away with Initiative and makes it riskier to engage your entire army in one huge scrum in the middle, because if you have 2+ combats happening on the table, your opponent is going to get at least one combat where they strike before you do.
    ------------------

    Father-Chaos: I think your Orc buddy could do well to grab some more units on his side of the table, if possible. Chaff is still a thing in AoS, in my experience.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  10. #8
    Not dead yet father-chaos's Avatar
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    1104 (x8)

    "Hello, my name is Father-Chaos and I ..... have begun to enjoy Age of Sigmar. Alright, now where is the coffee and cookies?"

    All kidding aside I had another quick match last night (yes ... quick) and as a 'real' father and gamer I am liking the set up and play time that comes along with AoS. Yes I still get goosebumps when I see ranks upon ranks of regimented troops and cavalry but to get an 80 wound (30+ models) game in and finish within an hour is pretty nice from time to time. And it allows for a dad to get both of his kids to play the game with little need for reading 100 pages worth of rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSarathai
    The problem is that you lose "legacy" models. Why take a unit of Men at Arms when you can take a huge block of Pilgrims? Skaven Slaves instead of Clanrats? Zombies over Skeletons or Ghouls?
    You are right here. Why field KotR at all when I can put in Questing Knights with Monster bonuses? Or the fact that other than the King all of my characters/heroes are 5 wounds. Now the one thing that is unfortunate for Bretonnia is the lack of 'bench'. Basically there will be no more new guys sitting on the bench down the road other than introducing some allies into the list.

    Regards,
    "The beatings will continue until morale improves."
    New Age of Sigmar
    Warriors of Chaos Project, Bretonian-Tale-of-Gamer-Project

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