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  1. #11
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    1480 (x8)

    [QUOTE=d_k_patt;2729682]I know this is really old but I love brets.

    2 things not mentioned.

    We all talk about points but in truth there not that bad, true silvers are point cheaper than a KoTR and empire are 2 points cheaper but Brets get The lance and the more important thing the protection of the Lady (intruth of equal importance) sure 9 silvers can fight in a lance but do they break stead fast, No they don't. Oh you have a hight strength to lower my armour oh wait now I have a 5+ ward save, don't mind if I do.
    The question is what you want in a unit though. You're trading ASF, +WS, +I, and +Ld for a 5+ Ward and the ability to fight in a Lance. And compared to High Elves in particular, the lance isn't that useful. Elves can easily run 18 Silvers - sure, it costs a little more, but it's something Brets can't do without reforming on the second turn (meaning no charge until the 3rd turn). The result is a unit that actually loses ranks slower than the Knights, although it does start with fewer of them (offset however, by WS5 Rerolls)
    With Empire Knights, there are tons of characters you can add who will boost their abilities into the stratosphere, while Brets have nothing like that themselves. Further, Empire Knights aren't just a little cheaper than KotR - they're massively discounted over Questing Knights, and have a better armor save. They can also fill either role (lances, greatweapons) in Core, which is a big deal.

    I have recently discovered 1 more thing Questing knights if you take them and put 3 pallys in the front rank with a 1+ save (2 of which re roll) your opponent has to hit them meaning your str 6 guys smash without taking any hits back
    Most armies have a way to do this. It's what I do with my Empire Knights - it's not all characters up front, but there are enough of them that very few attacks will carry back to my regiment.

    Ultimately though, the weakness of the Bret book isn't the Knights, points, statlines, or anything like that. Because both you, and the OP are correct: Bret Knights are vicious. The problem is that the book is very one-dimensional. Since there are 3 units fulfilling the "Knights with Lances" role, the competition is fierce - only one of them is really worth taking. There's not much deviation from the list, because only certain units work - the rest are rubbish. To say that Brets are good isn't a lie - they can certainly win games. But so can Tomb King armies if they're built correctly, and so will Beastmen. The trouble is that if you slip up even a little bit in how you've built your list, you're going to get wrecked, it seems.

    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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  3. #12
    LO Zealot d_k_patt's Avatar
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    Yeah they can only be used one way really but that way is soooooo good they are one of my favourite armies they are characterful and painted they are beautiful. They do lack some decent choices and doubt they will get a new book as what chould you add foot knights revamp grail knights.

    Aren't silvers only Ws 4? True asf is great and it annoys me that brets don't get access to light magic which would be really good for them.

    It think that the brets could do with a few changes. Broad swords for +1 str on kotr and grail knights, lance breaks steadfast on the charge and access to all 8 lores of magic.

  4. #13
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    I think that a lot of the best changes for Brets would be the historically accurate ones.
    Add crossbows, perhaps even with pavises like the old Braganza's Besiegers unit. Keep their shooting cheap, but make it good - they'll never be able to play a Gunline army, but they could at least have a reasonable shooting phase.

    Give them foot-knights, and put them in Core, with a wide range of weaponry available (Greatweapons, Halberds, flails/maces, HW&S) and price them right at the mid-way point between KoTR and [email protected]

    Dump off Questing Knights altogether - make Greatweapons an option for all Knights except Errants (no reason really, except to differentiate them between KotRs).

    As for "Fantasy-themed" stuff:

    Make the Grail Relique a strong area-buff like the Empire Luminark/Hurricanum.
    Give them all 8 Lores or at least the traditional "good" lores (Life, Light, Heavens, possibly Beasts, Fire, Metal as well)

    Ditch the Lance Bonus as we know it. Knights now fight in 3 ranks on the charge, and gain ranks at 3-wide (horde at 6-wide). No real need to break Steadfast on the charge. Impact Hits of some kind would be cool, but again - unnecessary in my opinion.

    Part of my "Kingdoms of Men" project was being geared towards a rewrite of the Bret list. The idea was that you could build a rough estimate of a "Bretonnian" army from the book, with all of the major choices included, and it would be like an updated Bret list. The project stalled out when I was trying to implement the idea of having multiple 'army-types' in the same list, with some kind of selection restriction (the real idea being that players could use Historicals collections to play WHFB, or create their own 'fan army' from the templates) was really hard to put into words. The second big reason that it stalled, is that 9th is right around the corner, and it might all become entirely redundant (and something I'm no longer interested in) if GW completely upends the game.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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  6. #14
    LO Zealot d_k_patt's Avatar
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    58 (x4)

    Cap they are all quality ideas as long as I still get to pray to the lady that's what makes brets unique

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