[QUOTE=d_k_patt;2729682]I know this is really old but I love brets.
2 things not mentioned.The question is what you want in a unit though. You're trading ASF, +WS, +I, and +Ld for a 5+ Ward and the ability to fight in a Lance. And compared to High Elves in particular, the lance isn't that useful. Elves can easily run 18 Silvers - sure, it costs a little more, but it's something Brets can't do without reforming on the second turn (meaning no charge until the 3rd turn). The result is a unit that actually loses ranks slower than the Knights, although it does start with fewer of them (offset however, by WS5 Rerolls)We all talk about points but in truth there not that bad, true silvers are point cheaper than a KoTR and empire are 2 points cheaper but Brets get The lance and the more important thing the protection of the Lady (intruth of equal importance) sure 9 silvers can fight in a lance but do they break stead fast, No they don't. Oh you have a hight strength to lower my armour oh wait now I have a 5+ ward save, don't mind if I do.
With Empire Knights, there are tons of characters you can add who will boost their abilities into the stratosphere, while Brets have nothing like that themselves. Further, Empire Knights aren't just a little cheaper than KotR - they're massively discounted over Questing Knights, and have a better armor save. They can also fill either role (lances, greatweapons) in Core, which is a big deal.Most armies have a way to do this. It's what I do with my Empire Knights - it's not all characters up front, but there are enough of them that very few attacks will carry back to my regiment.I have recently discovered 1 more thing Questing knights if you take them and put 3 pallys in the front rank with a 1+ save (2 of which re roll) your opponent has to hit them meaning your str 6 guys smash without taking any hits back
Ultimately though, the weakness of the Bret book isn't the Knights, points, statlines, or anything like that. Because both you, and the OP are correct: Bret Knights are vicious. The problem is that the book is very one-dimensional. Since there are 3 units fulfilling the "Knights with Lances" role, the competition is fierce - only one of them is really worth taking. There's not much deviation from the list, because only certain units work - the rest are rubbish. To say that Brets are good isn't a lie - they can certainly win games. But so can Tomb King armies if they're built correctly, and so will Beastmen. The trouble is that if you slip up even a little bit in how you've built your list, you're going to get wrecked, it seems.