2000 point Demon Army (no CSM)

[The Great Kazzo]

Hey so I am sort of new to the Chaos Demons as an army so I was wondering if I could get some advice on a new list I am making, Any advice would be appreciated

Combined Arms Detachment
HQ: Skarbrand (225 pts)
HQ: Karios Fate weaver (300 pts)
Troops: 11x Pink Horrors (99 pts)
Troops: 11x Pink Horrors (99 pts)
Troops: 11x Pink Horrors (99 pts)
Troops: 11x Pink Horrors (99 pts)
Heavy support: Soul Grinder (180 pts)
· Phlegm Bombardment
· Mark of Nurgle
Heavy support: Soul Grinder (180 pts)
· Phlegm Bombardment
· Mark of Nurgle
2^nd Combined Arms Detachment
HQ: Great Unclean One (280 pts)
· Mastery level 3
· 2 Greater Rewards
HQ: Herald of Nurgle (80 pts)
· Greater Loci of Fecundity
Troops: 10x Plague Bearers (90 pts)
Troops: 10x Plague Bearers (90 pts)
Troops: 10x Plague Bearers (90 pts)
Troops: 10x Plague Bearers (90 pts)

Total: 2000

The Plan is to start the Tzeentch detachment on the board first with Fate weaver with the soul grinders. If I go first I plan to split the horrors apart and put them into cover, same with the soul grinders and maybe get a few cursed earth's and summons off. I went with the artillery build with the soul grinders hoping to get that sweet 2+ cover save and just spam the Phlegm cannons to take out all units that are not terminators very fast and before they get into cover themselves. The Pink horrors are meant to act as the army's shooting units, peppering the enemy with essentially 4D6 heavy bolter shots, setting up cursed earth and deep strikes,summoning, and maybe vehicle hunting depending on what my opponent is running (Change Spells). Karios also has a lot of utility as I will have access to prescience and and powers of change which also make him a great vehicle hunter as well. Not sure what to do with Skarbrand (whether to deep strike him in or not). The other detachment of nurgle will be brought in from reserves, the plague bearers mostly will try to sit on objectives a herald with them to provide the feel no pain. I made sure my Great unclean one would attract a lot of attention with two greater artifact to prevent it from just becoming a statue. Overall I believe the army is pretty solid any advice is welcome

[andrewbeater]

Since the Flintstones are my second favourite cartoon of all time, I applaud your name choice.

With that out of the way, I'm feeling your list. For me, the GUO needs to try and get Iron Arm. Once done, I deep strike his green butt right into enemy lines and dare my opponent to kill him especially if you roll well for rewards (Feel No Pain, 3+ Armour etc).

The only thing I worry about with this list is the troops. In the first few rounds while you wait for your Nurgle CAD to come in your Pink Horrors are going to take it on the chin. I would; it keeps your warp charges down while taking away your ability to use them to summon more.

Next is Skarbrand. He is a bit slow and is a fire magnet. Any time I have seen him used in a game, he dies early and makes an expensive funeral. Consider this, take out Skarbrand and one unit of Plaguebearers. This frees up 315 points. With it add a Lord of Change to better compliment your Tzeentch list. For 315 points you should be able to add a ML3 LOC with some good add ons. Consider taking either the Impossible Robe or Paradox. If you take the Impossible Robe, look to make him your Warlord and try to get the new Warlord trait that adds +1 to your invulnerable save. This gives the LOC a 2 up rerollable invulnerable save. Failing that, look to get Cursed Earth for the same effect. Paradox simply makes it so he will make almost every manifestation roll for psychic powers.

[The Great Kazzo]

Let me first start off by saying thank you for your advice with my army. I understand that Skarbrand has his weaknesses but the rage and hatred bubble he has really has the opportunity to make my plaguebearers a walking nightmare to tanks/MEQ's as 3 attacks each with touch of rust is insane. Plus the hatred is a nice touch for the plague bearers to hit more in combat (taking into consideration their 3 weapon skill). In addition, the instant kill rulings and the fact that skarbrand has both armorbane and fleshbane makes him an absolute killer. To avoid him from being gunned down immediately I could deep strike him in with the Nurgle CAD so my opponent will have to choose between sinking their very strong weapons into Skarbrand or a great unclean one with biomancy lvi 3 and 2 greater rewards. As for the weakness of my troops, i guess that would depend on how much terrain their is on the board because if I could just move my pink horrors into cover and keep Karios in the air my opponent should not be able to kill too many of my units before summoning kicks in (12 warp charges plus D6 to get at least 2 off). Of course this strategy is still super weak towards tau due to markerlight pathfinder spam and ignoring cover, So I could use your advice on dealing with that. Although the argument you make for a second LoC does not fall ofn deaf ea

[andrewbeater]

Skarbrand is fine, but in my experience with him he simply dies early. Not one opponent sees Skarbrand on the table and doesn't do their level best to kill him where he stands. The problem with him is his delivery system; he either runs up taking fire as he goes or he deep strikes in and stands there for a round of heavy fire. His rage bubble is great right up until you come up against an enemy unit that makes better use of it than your units. I've seen it. And all this sucks because Skarbrand should be great, his model is beautiful, the cool rules <heavy sigh>. Try him and see if you can make him work.

LoC can be upgraded to have the Eternal Beatstick giving it strength 8 AP2 attacks for 10 lousy points. It can be upgraded with the Impossible Robe and with some luck a 2 up rerollable invulnerable save. The new Tzeentch psychic powers can be potent; can you say Destroyer attacks? Not to mention the extra Warp Charge points he generates.

Tau can be tricky. They have a formation that have rule that allow them to hit vehicles on rear armour. Combine that with marker lights and you end up with very dead Soul Grinders. The key is to kill the marker light dudes first. I generally have a Skull Cannon along to ignore their big cover save. A few Phlegm Bombardments will also help.

[The Great Kazzo]

Yeah you know what I can see Skarbrand becoming much more of a liability to my army specifically since I am not running any units of Khorne or even slaneesh, so I think I will actually pass on him. However on the topic of clearing up points would you say that removing the plague bearers or herald of nurgle is a better choice, since it is much harder to get another herald on the board than another unit of plague bearers, but then again an extra 10 bodies ont eh board right away is nothing to sneeze at either

[andrewbeater]

You only have one Herald of Nurgle right? Interestingly enough, your point total on your Herald as written is wrong. The Herald with the Loci of Fecundity should be only 70 points. If you are going to go with the LoC, I wouldn't give up the Herald because he is only worth 70 points and when you add that to Skarbrand's points, it's only 295 which might not get you the LoC kitted out the way you want. You should get to ML 3, at least the Eternal Beatstick (lesser reward Staff of Change) and the Impossible Robe. Rewards would be nice just to add to his survivability. Think about this; you get the impossible robe, you get the +1 Invulnerable form anywhere and you get 4+ FNP. Can you say unkillable? I know you can. With the Staff in the hands of a MC, it becomes a Strength 8, AP2 weapon instantly killing toughness 4 units (I'm looking at you Marines).

Yabba Dabba Doo.

[kingzerno]

Isn't there a weapon in the wulfen book that for all wounds inflicted you gaing that many plaguebearers to all units in 12" range? If you're deep striking plaguebearers and a big hitter close to the enemy that could be a REALLY painful piece of equipment to have.

There's a thread floating round her somewhere on the forums where the demon equipment has been laid out!

[andrewbeater]

Horn of Nurgle’s Rot *2..................35 points
Those slain by a Daemon crowned with the fabled Horn of Nurgle’s Rot are doomed to rise once more, their altered corpse joining the shambling ranks of Nurgle’s tallymen.
After resolving the bearer’s close combat attacks, add 1 model to a friendly unit of Plaguebearers of Nurgle within 12" of the bearer for each enemy model that was slain. The model must be placed within unit coherency, more than 1" from any enemy models. Any models that cannot be placed in this manner are lost.

*2 - Daemon Prince or Herald Of Nurgle Only.

[The Great Kazzo]

Okay so how is this list?
Chaos Demon List (2000 points)
Combined Arms Detachment
HQ: Karios Fate weaver (300 pts)
HQ: Lord Of Change (325 pts)
• Impossible robe:
• Mastery level 3
• 2x Greater reward
1x lesser reward

Troops: 11x Pink Horrors (99 pts)
Troops: 11x Pink Horrors (99 pts)
Troops: 11x Pink Horrors (99 pts)
Troops: 11x Pink Horrors (99 pts)
Heavy support: Soul Grinder (180 pts)
• Phlegm Bombardment
• Mark of Nurgle
Heavy support: Soul Grinder (180 pts)
• Phlegm Bombardment
• Mark of Nurgle
2nd Combined Arms Detachment
HQ: Great Unclean One (280 pts)
• Mastery level 3
• 2 Greater Rewards
HQ: Herald of Nurgle (70 pts)
• Greater Loci of Fecundity
Troops: 10x Plague Bearers (90 pts)
Troops: 10x Plague Bearers (90 pts)
Troops: 10x Plague Bearers (90 pts)

Total: 2000

[andrewbeater]

Awesomesauce.