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  1. #11
    LO Zealot Kaleb Daark's Avatar
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    I don't understand what people are getting het up about with the skull cannon. The only thing that should be on your mind is that it looks stupid.

    It's only 35 points less than an ogre ironblaster and that gets S10 shots as well as S10 grapeshot. Yes the attacks are flammable and yes they're magical, but lets face it, it's the only decent khorne option in the book, as experiment says, Crushers for their points are pretty abysmal, and in the contesxt of the OP's army will be pretty much on its own especially with the comedy chaos roll that you have to do every round.

    I think the book has bigger issues than one cannon causing hysteria - BoTWD hysteria anyone? Yes it may be cheap, but in the context of an army book which encourages through its mechanisms, but in the same breath makes it unfeasible (if you're a competition hound) to run a mono god list (unless its nurgle :p), surely they can be forgiven for having one shining star?

    Or you can do what everyone else does, not that I like it personally, but get a nurgle model of choice, give it a gun barrel and call it a nurgle themed skullcannon.


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  3. #12
    Son of LO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens Balslev View Post
    Ok... and the rest of the list?

    I was actually not aware, that the cannon was Khorne´s baby; I just acted on Experiment 626´s advice. I am very sorry!
    Don't worry - hater's gonna hate as they say!
    The list looks good. You might want to even try out playing as it is, and then a few games of running just a single Plaguebearer unit of say 25-30 and then spending the saved pts say on a solo Beast to give you a second chaff unit.

    If you want to really keep your army mono-Nurgle, you can always as mentioned by Kaleb Daark, convert a 'Nurgle themed' Skullcannon.
    I've seen some people use the WoC Hellcannon and give it Plaguebearer crew, or else kitbash up an upside-down Steamtank pulled by a Beast of Nurgle and covered in boils, to even just slapping a cannon onto a converted O&G chariot...
    As long as it looks like filthy-crap, (as in covered in vomit/boils/poop & rusting all to hell of course!), you can't go wrong!

    I've done similar for my mono-Tzeentch army which uses Beasts of Nurgle and Plaguedrone units, but converted to look Tzeentchian... So now I've got some kitbashed spawn/exalted flamer/green stuffed 'Beasts' which I've simply renamed 'Firewyrms of Tzeentch', and Flamers riding Discs for 'Drones' which I call 'Changebringers'.

    Don't ever think that mono-god means you can only use 25% of our book!
    Rather, look at a mono-god army as an excellent excuse to let your conversion skillz go mad-crazy!



    Quote Originally Posted by TornadoCreator View Post
    Mono-nurgle army... still suggests Skullcannon of KHORNE!!! Why, because the ****ing thing is broken.

    I mean no disrespect, honestly, in a competitive list the Skullcannon is pretty much auto-include because it's 135pts for a cannon that's easily worth over 200-250pts. It's quite frankly cheap. If you really want to do a mono-nurgle army, actually do a mono-nurgle army and leave the damn cannons out of it. If you want to still have friends at your games club a month from now, definitely leave the damn cannons out of your list. I refuse to play if I see a skullcannon, and I'm far from the only one with this policy. I actually saw someone run double skullcannons in a 1200pt game before today and everyone pegs him as a cheap bastard for it.
    We get that you think the so-called 'Skillcannon' is the most heinously broken thing to have ever existed in the history of Fantasy...

    But seriously, while it's definitely undercosted by about 50-65 or so pts, it's also in the same army that contains equally useless garbage like non-Nurgle DP's, Khorne Heralds, Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers, Flamers, Seeker Chariots, Hellflayers, Exalted Seeker Chariots, etc...
    On top of terrible rules such as the badly borked random Gifts, crippled General/BSB rules, Warpflame & our fan-favourite Reign of Comedy which can simply instantly kill our entire army on turn 1...

    Sure, a few rotten eggs abuse the crap out of them. That doesn't mean that taking 1 of them at 1000-1500pts automatically makes you the b****** spawn of Hitler & Satan.
    But honestly, we'll happily drop our double Khannons if those High Elf players all agree to never, ever, Ever! take their shiny Banner of the Skillful Dragon. (which let's face it, is honestly a much more broken item than our khannons...)

    Quote Originally Posted by TornadoCreator View Post
    Using decent units and building a strong list is fine, it's a skill and you should use it. Abusing what is clearly either a misprint in the book (I'm relatively convinced the Skull Cannon was supposed to be 235pts), or a psychotic episode at GW, that's like abusing a glitch in an MMO, it's bad form and people will react badly to it.

    Other than that. Have fun, and good luck with your army. It's a cool hobby and I hope you enjoy it.
    The OP wanted to know how to run solidly competitive Daemons, (as their friends are all competitive-minded), hopefully with a Nurgle-heavy/mono-Nurgle theme.

    That means Skullcannon/s are a must since it's our best option for dealing with otherwise very troublesome things like flying monsters & monsters in general, enemy chariots, 1+ saves, regen units, etc...
    If their friends are all going to be bringing the top competitive build/s from their books, which will likely also include equally ridiculous/undercosted units & items, why should the OP be shamed into leaving their own powerful option(s) at home?!

    As they say, you don't bring a rusted spoon when you know you're heading into a nuke fight!

  4. #13
    Senior Member TornadoCreator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by experiment 626 View Post
    We get that you think the so-called 'Skillcannon' is the most heinously broken thing to have ever existed in the history of Fantasy...

    But seriously, while it's definitely undercosted by about 50-65 or so pts, it's also in the same army that contains equally useless garbage like non-Nurgle DP's, Khorne Heralds, Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers, Flamers, Seeker Chariots, Hellflayers, Exalted Seeker Chariots, etc...
    On top of terrible rules such as the badly borked random Gifts, crippled General/BSB rules, Warpflame & our fan-favourite Reign of Comedy which can simply instantly kill our entire army on turn 1...
    Yeah, but you're not using the crap, you're using the good stuff. If you where running an all Khorne army, with Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers etc. and then included Skullcannons I'd have less of an issue with it. (seriously, Skillcannon, there's no ****ing skill in those broken things). If you're running an army with Plaguebearers, Furies, Nurgle characters and Skullcannons, you're just being cheap and no amount of; "but the shit I didn't bring is crap", will convince me you're not being cheap.

    Quote Originally Posted by experiment 626 View Post
    Sure, a few rotten eggs abuse the crap out of them. That doesn't mean that taking 1 of them at 1000-1500pts automatically makes you the b****** spawn of Hitler & Satan.
    But honestly, we'll happily drop our double Khannons if those High Elf players all agree to never, ever, Ever! take their shiny Banner of the Skillful Dragon. (which let's face it, is honestly a much more broken item than our khannons...)
    OK, yeah, that banner is broken... I'd agree to that.


    Quote Originally Posted by experiment 626 View Post
    The OP wanted to know how to run solidly competitive Daemons, (as their friends are all competitive-minded), hopefully with a Nurgle-heavy/mono-Nurgle theme.

    That means Skullcannon/s are a must since it's our best option for dealing with otherwise very troublesome things like flying monsters & monsters in general, enemy chariots, 1+ saves, regen units, etc...
    Except they're not Nurgle, and he asked for a competitive mono-Nurgle list.

    Quote Originally Posted by experiment 626 View Post
    If their friends are all going to be bringing the top competitive build/s from their books, which will likely also include equally ridiculous/undercosted units & items, why should the OP be shamed into leaving their own powerful option(s) at home?!

    As they say, you don't bring a rusted spoon when you know you're heading into a nuke fight!
    True, but there's very little that's as broken as the Skullcannon. Sure there's the banner you mentioned earlier, but I can't think of anything as broken as a Skullcannon. The Skullcannon is a 135 point warmachine that regularly kills over 600 points worth of stuff, based on the games I've seen it in. This is not a fair unit by any stretch of the imagination.

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  6. #14
    Son of LO
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    Quote Originally Posted by TornadoCreator View Post
    Yeah, but you're not using the crap, you're using the good stuff. If you where running an all Khorne army, with Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers etc. and then included Skullcannons I'd have less of an issue with it. (seriously, Skillcannon, there's no ****ing skill in those broken things). If you're running an army with Plaguebearers, Furies, Nurgle characters and Skullcannons, you're just being cheap and no amount of; "but the shit I didn't bring is crap", will convince me you're not being cheap.
    So then, you think that Daemon players shouldn't be allowed to ever compete?
    As suggested, if you want pure mono-themed, convert to look the part & use 'counts as'. Call it a Pus Cannon or Plague Cannon or Vomit Cannon or Rot Cannon or whatever Nurgle'ish name you think is cool...

    By your argument, I'm a horrible, dirty, WAAC'er for using a couple converted 'counts as' Nurgle units in my mono-Tzeentch army... (which by the way, Tzeentch is pretty damn bad this edition and can hardly be called 'competitive'... but I'm a glutton for self-inflicted punishment apparently!)

    Quote Originally Posted by TornadoCreator View Post
    Except they're not Nurgle, and he asked for a competitive mono-Nurgle list.
    Nurgle-'centric/mono-Nurgle... If theme is #1, then convert non-Nurgle stuff to look the part.

    Why should Daemons players be forced to only ever utilise no more than 25% of their book while everyone gets to choose from 100% of their own?
    Again, the whole "don't bring a rusty spoon to a nuke fight." argument. If the OP is going to be going up against other highly competitive/optimised lists, why should they unfairly hamstring themselves by not bringing their own best? The Daemon army rules like Reign of Comedy alone are going to be enough of a penalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by TornadoCreator View Post
    True, but there's very little that's as broken as the Skullcannon. Sure there's the banner you mentioned earlier, but I can't think of anything as broken as a Skullcannon. The Skullcannon is a 135 point warmachine that regularly kills over 600 points worth of stuff, based on the games I've seen it in. This is not a fair unit by any stretch of the imagination.
    Khannons are simply undercosted - not broken. Yes they can kill a lot, they can also do absolutely nothing & misfire, or in our case get fustigated by DI/RoC (DI is killer to these things since they only have Ld7 and will pretty much never get any General/BSB benefit)
    They also cannot make March moves (chariot) meaning they're rather prone to being chaffed, and their Flaming Attacks make them far less efficient at character sniping since anyone can get a 2++ vs burny attacks for 5-10pts.
    They're overall really, really good and yes, they should cost more. Daemon players would still take them even if they cost 180-200pts a piece. But broken? Absolutely not, since you always have options of dealing with the things...

    By your argument, the most broken thing in the game would be a 70pts Death Wizard since he can single-handedly wipe out entire armies by himself! (and guess what, this guy can do just that to a Nurgle army since their best initiative is only I4!)

    I can honestly think up a helluva lot that's far more obnoxious than a pair of Khannons;
    - BotWD
    - Alarielle Deathstar
    - Deathstars in general
    - #6 'instant kill' spells
    - WoC Nurgle Daemon Prince
    - WoC 'unkillable' Lord/BSB
    - Dark Elf Stubborn Crown Pendant Lord
    - Ogre Cannon (S10 grapeshot anyone?! O.O)
    - Runemaw Banner
    - Hellheart (game-breaking vs Undead, annoying vs everyone else)
    - VC Scream-spam
    - VC Blender Lords
    - Epidemius in Portalglyph (the epitome of broken actually!)
    - Slaanesh Caco-bomb
    - Skaven SAD armies or Dwarf gunlines
    - Skaven Slaves

    Plenty of game-breaking stuff that's far, far worse than a pair of chariot cannons from a book that has the absolute worst internal balance in the game...

  7. #15
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    So - 1000 points done. I hope the 100% self-made Skull Cannon (except for the nurglings, off course) makes it a bit up for taking a Khorne-unit, TornadoCreator!

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  8. #16
    LO Zealot Kaleb Daark's Avatar
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    the skull cannon is absolutely brilliant!!! makes a change from a forgeworld herald of nurgle without the gun cut off!

    Rep for you

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