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  1. #1
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    My own daemon's of chaos list

    Lord (475pts)
    Daemon prince of Tzeentch
    Lv 4 wizard
    Exalted Gift

    Core (571pts)
    18x Pink Horrors
    Iridescent Horror
    Both Standard Bearer and Musician
    Lichbone Pennant

    16x Bloodletters
    Bloodreaper
    Both Standard Bearer and Musician
    Banner of Eternal Flame

    Special (275pts)
    12x Seekers of Slaanesh
    Heartseeker
    Both Standard Bearer and Musician
    Gleaming Pennant

    Rare (500pts)
    7x Plague Drones
    Plaguebringer
    Both Standard Bearer and Musician
    7x Death heads
    Banner of Swiftness

    so hows my daemonic list for a 2000 point game but not sure what else to add?

    Last edited by Xaric; January 2nd, 2014 at 06:56.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    Lord (475pts)
    Daemon prince of Tzeentch
    Lv 4 wizard
    Exalted Gift
    Sorry but, well, he's total garbage! T5/W4 with only a 5++ while costing nearly a quarter of your total army is crap.
    A Magic Missile or two plus a little light shooting and he's toast.

    If you really want a Lord, then go for a LoC w/Eternal Blade + Lesser and keep him to just a Lv2. There's your true beatstick!

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    Core (571pts)
    18x Pink Horrors
    Iridescent Horror
    Both Standard Bearer and Musician
    Lichbone Pennant
    They really need a Tzherald w/Exalted Locus to be worthwhile. Make sure to roll your LoC and Tzherald spells first so as to guarantee getting Gateway on these guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    16x Bloodletters
    Bloodreaper
    Both Standard Bearer and Musician
    Banner of Eternal Flame
    Banner is useless on them and won't work since they have Magic Weapons.

    16 is also nowhere near enough to be viable... Being only T3/5++ means you die like elves to most basic attacks/shooting, and with only a single attack and no special rules to help, you simply aren't capable of grinding things out.
    Really the only viable way to go with B.letters is to go 30-40 + Herald w/Hatred.

    Honestly I'd lose these guys for either another unit of 10-15 Horrors or else go for Daemonettes w/Swiftness banner for a M7 infantry unit that can easily scoot up and into opposing flanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    Special (275pts)
    12x Seekers of Slaanesh
    Heartseeker
    Both Standard Bearer and Musician
    Gleaming Pennant
    Break them into 2 separate unit w/Muso only. These guys are Chaff cleaners/backfield hunters. Plus being Fast Cav, there's no point to rank 'em up since IIRC they can't claim any rank bonuses.

    You might also want to look into some 5 strong Fury units for acting as added Chaff, as well as perhaps a solo Beast of Nurgle.
    A unit of 3-4 Beasts is also a perfectly solid Hammer unit who can take-on frontal charges like true champs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    Rare (500pts)
    7x Plague Drones
    Plaguebringer
    Both Standard Bearer and Musician
    7x Death heads
    Banner of Swiftness
    7 is too many since they're a flying unit, meaning they move in Skirmish Formation. 3-4 is usually enough, especially at 2k and under.
    Give these guys the Burny Banner for regen hunting, and lose the Death's Heads since BS3 means you'll never hit a damn thing! Instead, take the Plague Proboscus to give your really hitty steeds Poisoned Attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    so hows my daemonic list for a 2000 point game but not sure what else to add?
    Horrors want a Tzherald to give them the +1S to their spell, plus eat-up useless spells like Treason/Bolt/Pink Fire/Glean.

    You need some more Chaff/Chaff Cleaners or else you'll find your opponent controlling the Movement Phase and dictating how the game will play out.


    As for things to add, if you're wanting to keep the Tzeentch/Slaanesh angle, then look at;
    - 'Kipper for your Greater if you want to add a lot of fighty Slaanesh stuff. Always take the Eternal Blade on your Exalted roll, then add a Lesser Gift to compliment. If you hate an opponent, make him Lv4 w/Slaanesh magic and cast AoE Cacophonic Choir for an instant win.
    Otherwise LoC w/E.Blade + Lesser gift for access to Metal Magic.

    - 2-3 units of 5 Furies w/mark same as your General. Best Chaff option we have.

    - 2x Burny Chariots for tackling large T3 units.

    - Soul Grinder w/mark same as your BSB + Flame Cannon upgrade to help deal with the downsides of Warpflame.

    - Fiends if you're just keeping things purely friendly, otherwise get some Beasts of Nurgle! (hey, if everyone else is allowed their stupidly OTT crap, then we get to play our Beasts!)

    - Khannons if you regularly see a lot of monsters/monstrous cav, etc...

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    This is my fluff army it was never designed for the purpose of competitive play did you notices the number of each unit? The Daemon prince was a summoner in life now has become a daemon prince hence why I did not choose a Lord of Change or that would defeat the point of this army list it was in the fluff section but they moved it.

    Daemon prince can be Mastery lv 1-4 depending on his need thus the points are varied to accompany heralds or more beasts of the warp

    As for pink horrors you do know about the lore of tzeentch right that spells that kill targets can give more horrors and gleem magic turns any spell stolen into the lore of tzeentch it maybe my range unit but it is also my speed bump unit to keep units locked in combat so the speedy stuff can get round back.

    Now for banners I am still experimenting with them but did not know this can you direct me to the page regarding banners and magical weapons I will have to change this.

    I will most likely agree on that I was debating weather having them in 2x of 6 or 1 blob of 12

    There not called flying they have the hover rule that just adapts rules from flying they also benefit from rank bonus of 3 per rank but I will give them the burning banner flaming poison attacks oh my

    I agree very nice advice I see you play daemons a lot but I can't change the unit numbers because I also want to make this into a army on parade list.
    Last edited by Xaric; January 4th, 2014 at 11:08.

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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    This is my fluff army it was never designed for the purpose of competitive play did you notices the number of each unit?.
    I did notice the numbers yes, I do the same myself for my mono-Tzeentch.
    The problem is your army is far too Core heavy and our Core is frankly the weakest part of our book. All of it is designed to be used in conjunction with Heralds - most of whom are quite weak overall with only the Nurgle Herald being rather survivable in combat. Add to this that most of the Locii abilities are horrifically over-costed, or else just plain bad for their intended unit. Outside of the likes of the Regen Locus for Nurgle, Locus of Grace for Slaanesh & Conjuration Locus of Tzeentch, these abilities are just too expensive on a platform you can't readily protect at all. (outside of Nurgle obviously)
    Typically you should be looking to hit your 25% requirement and leave it at that. If a full-on pantheon army is what you desire, then you'd be better off to pick a single Core unit or combination and use that to hit your required mins.
    For example, taking something like;
    -21 Plaguebearers w/full command + Regen Herald
    - 18 Pinkies with or without Tzherald to act as magical artillery *IF* you have another Lv4 Tzeentch caster. (otherwise, try more 'Bearers or a +1M Banner unit of 18 Daemonettes)

    Bring your Khorne unit/s in through the likes of 8 Doggies, or perhaps 2x 4 'Crushers, and/or a Khannon.
    Tzeentch can come in via the likes of 3x 3 Screamers, or Burny Chariots and/or a Tzeentch Grinder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    The Daemon prince was a summoner in life now has become a daemon prince hence why I did not choose a Lord of Change or that would defeat the point of this army list it was in the fluff section but they moved it.
    Daemon prince can be Mastery lv 1-4 depending on his need thus the points are varied to accompany heralds or more beasts of the warp
    Sorry, but while the idea of a Prince is super cool, (I have one myself who I had to 'upgrade' to LoC status), he's the single worst Lord choice in the entire game!
    You're spending almost 500pts for a guy who's only T5/W4/5++. A single 2D6/S4 or D6/S5+ magic missile plus a little light archery WILL kill him 1st turn. Combat is even worse as if you can't break your opponent, they'll re-form and then take you down simply through weight of dice because you're not that tough. (if Daemonic Instability doesn't kill you off first)
    WoC use theirs because they can buy him ridiculous levels of protection AND he's Unbreakable in combat instead of suffering from DI - we simply can't get anything even remotely close to that.

    At 2k, you'd likely be better off just forgetting about him and running a bunch of Heralds, or else run the Bloodthirster w/2x Lesser Gifts if you want a big gribbly Lord.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    As for pink horrors you do know about the lore of tzeentch right that spells that kill targets can give more horrors and gleem magic turns any spell stolen into the lore of tzeentch it maybe my range unit but it is also my speed bump unit to keep units locked in combat so the speedy stuff can get round back.
    Yes, all our spell Lores work the same, adding new models to nearby units on a roll of 'X+'.

    However, Lore of Tzeentch is generally terrible on Horrors because they're only ever a Lv1 wizard, meaning they only ever get a single spell.
    - Blue Fire needs to be spammed in order to stack the damage potential (and unit growing ability) AND to avoid handing out Regen like candy.
    - Treason is 100% useless on Horrors. Tzheralds want it instead, because Horrors should always be focusing on throwing about damage spells.
    - Pink Fire requires you to get close and needs big enemy blocks to be effective.
    - Bolt is again completely 'meh' on Horrors due to it's extremely low damage output.
    - Glean is the worst possible spell actually, because you add your Wizard Level, which for Horrors is always capped at 1.
    - Firestorm is solid - Horrors want this!
    - Gateway is tops - Horrors definitely want this!!

    You have 2 spells with a possible third for Horrors to use well. Thus, you need Tzheralds to 'use up' those spells that the Pinkies can't make proper use of.
    Remember that Warpflame also hurts you more often than it helps. You won't care about it if zapping things like enemy Chaff, but anything ranked or Monstrous or Heavy Cav is asking for trouble unless you can cripple the unit.
    Hence why Gateway is so highly prized, since it's strength is insane, while Firestorm reliably hits a lot of models in ranked up units, but doesn't require wacky movement to get into a 'safe firing' zone like Pink Fire does.

    18 Horrors are also far too expensive to simply throw out as speed bumps. That's what things like 12 'Nettes, solo Beasts, Nurglings, 6 Seekers & Furies are for

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    Now for banners I am still experimenting with them but did not know this can you direct me to the page regarding banners and magical weapons I will have to change this.
    Special Rules section of the BRB, 'Flaming Attacks', last sentence in parenthesis. Should be pg69.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    I will most likely agree on that I was debating weather having them in 2x of 6 or 1 blob of 12
    2 groups of 6 for sure, give 'em a Muso only. Remember that Fast Cavalry never gain rank bonuses, so things like a Banner and added models are pointless.
    The two units are your chaff cleaners and can hunt war machines and lone characters who aren't riding large, scary monsters. In a pinch, you can throw them into an enemy's flank, but that should be a desperation move only.

    Your real unit flankers are units of Plaguedrones, Soul Grinder, Khorne Doggies, Fiends, Screamers and/or Bloodcrushers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    There not called flying they have the hover rule that just adapts rules from flying they also benefit from rank bonus of 3 per rank but I will give them the burning banner flaming poison attacks oh my
    Hover means you become a unit of Flyers, with the restriction of not being able to march. Because you're unit type 'Monstrous Cav', you now become 'Flying Monstrous Cav', meaning you are treated as a Fast Cavalry unit that flies. (but can't march, because of Hover)
    So no rank bonuses, but you do gain the free reforms!
    The problem is, because of the Skirmish formation you adopt, you take up extra room and become more difficult to move effectively. Plus while you're a Monstrous unit, your steeds still only ever get 1 supporting attack, meaning that added ranks are pointless in the extreme.

    You can still be fully 'fluffy' with the Sacred Numbers - just take a unit of 3 + unit of 4 for your total of 7. It also gives you added flexibility and let's these guys become fully effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    I agree very nice advice I see you play daemons a lot but I can't change the unit numbers because I also want to make this into a army on parade list.
    Just change out/alter your Core and use more Specials in there place...
    16 Bloodletters for example are useless except as a massively over-costed speed bump. Trade them for 8 Doggies instead to get your Khorne unit in there. You can even upgrade them with the solid Ambushers rule to give you a mid-late game backfield cleaner.

    For a Pantheon list, you can look at something like;
    - Bloodthirster w/2x Lesser Rewards OR Kipper w/Lv2 + 2x Lesser rewards

    - Tzherald w/Lv2 Lore of Tzeentch + Locus of Conjuration
    - Tzherald w/Lv2 Lore of Metal

    - 18 Horrors w/full command
    - 18 Horrors w/full command

    - 6 Seekers w/Muso
    - 6 Seekers w/Muso
    - 8 Flesh Hounds w/Ambushers

    - 4 Drones w/Burny Banner, Plague Proboscis
    - 3 Drones w/Standard of Discipline, Plague Proboscis

    You've got representation of each God, all your units are 'sacred' and/or include a 'sacred total', you've got a decent spell selection that gives you damage slingers & some nifty hexes from Shadow should you go the Kipper route...
    You can compete somewhat in the Movement phase instead of handing it to your opponent.
    the main weakness is combat, since this list lacks a solid anvil and instead plays more of a flank-hitting MSU style. Still, between a Greater + 2 units of Drones and the Doggies, you've still got combat punch!

    It's still fluffy and not overly competitive, but you'll probably have a lot more fun going this type of route than an army that's over spending on the worst section of our book and frustrating yourself with the game's worst Lord choice!

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    i must say i have much to learn i will do some revistions thanks very much for the advice how are flamers i hear there deadly and the flaming chariot i just notiested in fantasy can shoot and move wile in 40k it cant?
    Last edited by Xaric; January 4th, 2014 at 23:13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaric View Post
    i must say i have much to learn i will do some revistions thanks very much for the advice how are flamers i hear there deadly and the flaming chariot i just notiested in fantasy can shoot and move wile in 40k it cant?
    No worries!

    As for Flamers... well, as a die-hard mono-Tzeentch enthusiast I cry myself to sleep every time over what's become of our poor, poor Flamers.
    As is typical of GW, they got nuked by a knee-jerk over-reaction nerfing when all they really needed was going down to S4 from the near godly base S5 they had last book.
    Instead, we now have a unit that has 0 purpose and is the most dyslexic unit in the entire game!

    On the surface they're shooters with above average BS and a multi-shot S4 'weapon'.
    But their range is fairly short, they typically need 5's or even 6's to hit, generate a random number of shots AND suffer from Warpflame. Once you add-up the penalties for moving & shooting + multiple shots + over half range you're typically lucky to wipe out a basic 5 strong Fast Cav unit!
    Vs. anything T4 or better or any kind of ranked unit, you're better off not even shooting them due to Warpflame backfiring in your face...

    So they don't shoot so well, but how's about combat?! Well, that's even worse to be honest...
    WS2/A2 per model, Skirmisher rules so no rank bonus allowed, no command options beyond a unit champion, a unit cap of only 6 dudes AND then throw in Daemonic Instability.
    Freaking Goblins will beat the crap out of these guys... Anything beyond 'Chaos Hounds' or 'Dire Wolves' are simply too much for these guys to handle due to lack of models and poor fighting stats. (that WS2 is crippling)

    And you get all this dysfunction for a whopping 40pts a dude!
    Welcome to the worst unit in Warhammer...


    The Burny Chariots however are awesomesauce when taken in pairs. They're fast enough to line up flanks and avoid charge arcs, especially if you give them a supporting unit of chaff cleaners like Seekers/Screamers, ect...
    They're trickier to use than the Skill Khannon obviously as they cost more and aren't anywhere near as survivable, but they also won't generate the instant cries of WaaC's/TFG that the Khorne Khannon tends to lead to.

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