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  1. #1
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    New to Empire - 1200 Gunpowder theme

    Hi,

    I've had this idea for a long time, but recently I've set my mind to painting brightly colored gunmen.
    I want it to be a competative list, but i have no idea of how good or bad the shooting is since none of my friends play Empire or Dwarfs. I want to shoot mostely and catch the impact with spearmen.

    So here is what I came up with:

    Heroes
    Battle wizard
    lvl1, lore of fire

    Captain of the Empire
    BSB, Full plate armor, Enchanted shield

    Core
    24 Spearmen, Standard bearer
    detachment: 10 handgunners
    detachment: 10 handgunners

    15x Spearmen
    detachment: 5 handgunners

    11x Handgunners
    champion w/ Hochland Longrifle

    Special
    Great Cannon
    Great Cannon

    Rare
    Helblaster Volley Gun
    Helblaster Volley Gun

    1200 points


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  3. #2
    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    2052 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by rydhus View Post

    Heroes
    Battle wizard
    lvl1, lore of fire

    If you're going to keep this guy and make his points work for you I'd consider grabbing the Ring of Ruin. Not only does it give you another fireball to throw around it will reduce the casting cost of your BIG fireball with the Lore attribute! A LD7 General is a bit rubbish though but there's nowt you can do about it if you want a BSB as well. Shadow might be a good bet aswell. Simply to reduce the enemies movement with your signature spell.

    Captain of the Empire
    BSB, Full plate armor, Enchanted shield

    Core
    24 Spearmen, Standard bearer
    detachment: 10 handgunners
    detachment: 10 handgunners

    Spearmen are pretty god awful to be honest. Swordsmen would be a safer bet. Why not swap them out for a unit of Knights though? A good hammer like unit to finish off units would be good after your shooting has done it's work

    15x Spearmen
    detachment: 5 handgunners

    Why Bother with Spearmen? They're no use in combat. Just go with some Crossbows (for some additional range over Hangunners) or use the points to make the Swordsmen/Spear block bigger.

    11x Handgunners
    champion w/ Hochland Longrifle

    Special
    Great Cannon
    Great Cannon

    Rare
    Helblaster Volley Gun
    Helblaster Volley Gun

    1200 points
    I know Captain Sarathai has some success with a Black Powder list. Although his list uses a lot of mobile firepower in the form of Out Riders and Pistoliers as well as a bucket load of Hand Gunners.

  4. #3
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    Thanks for the input. I took those spearmen because you get an extra rank of attacks. Swordsmen die nearly as fast as spearmen because ill be playing mostly against Ogres. I want to keep the theme to infantry gunners so ill take handgunners over crossbowmen. Ill take a look at the other guys list. I do like the outriders models so that would make a Nice change. Ill post a New list in a while.

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  6. #4
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    Though I'm a great fan of blackpowder lists; they are not as useful as they were. Since big units are the norm these days; you really need to get something to kill off the diminished units. As units get to the opposite side more quickly and generally have more models (and wounds), shooting is not as effective as it was.

    @ 1,200 points you might see infantry lists with (for example) 2x24 orcs and 2x40 goblins. Against these, a 15-man strong spearmen regiment will not last more than a turn and killing these before they hit you is near impossible.

    To go with the theme, a unit of 30 state troops (it doesnt matter that much if they are spearmen, halberdiers or swordsmen, though the swordsmen and halberdiers are arguably better) would be the first investment. Add to that the fire mage (indeed the ruby ring would help), and the battle standard bearer if you want to. Then firnalise with as many guns as you can afford.

    The alternative (as the previous poster mentioned) is a more cavalry oriented list. Outriders have great mobility and as much firepower as the same amount (in points) of handgunners. The trade off is that they fare less well in shooting exchanges as they are a lot of points in relatively few models. Instead of state troops, a unit of Knights (possibly with the bsb in there) make a great hammer and have more survivability than those footsloggers; even if not upgraded to inner circle.

    Another suggestion would be to swap the bsb for either a warrior priest (makes the regiment more powerful; especially great with Knights )and has ld 8, or a master engineer. If you opt for the handgunners over outriders; you have room in your special allotment for reiksguard Knights; which makes the bsb obsolete. (them being stubborn). The master engineer option is actually a budget option, as a single hellblaster with master engineer (BS4) does on average as much damage as 2 hellblasters without and is cheaper. If I have the room in the heroes section, I'd also consider upgrading the wizard to level 2; as his damage potential increases manyfold. level 2 fire with the ruby ring is a nasty surprise for those enemies who skipped magic altogether in favour of more troops.

    As far as artilery goes, I strongly like great cannons. The damage they can do is great, as many a daemon-prince can attest. They are not as effective these days as they were, though; due to large units and limited impact of focussed fire. Then again, against chaos or ogres a duo is a great asset. Against all others, a single one is enough. anyhow, 2 hellblasters and 2 great cannons is definately too much. You are over-extending in the artilery department, while underspending on melee troops.

    Hope this helps

    Vince

  7. #5
    Senior Member Noma's Avatar
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    I agree, while spearmen seem like they could be good for this kind of army, they don't actually stack up well to other choices, such as inner circle knights, swordsmen or halberdiers.

    I would begin first by reconstructing your core choices. If you want a hard hitting effective hammer, a group of knights can do the job just fine. Nice saves, decent statline and as said, you can even put your BSB on a horse and ride in with them. Swordsmen actually have decent armor and with shields they get a parry in close combat.Your gunline will be effective, sure. But what will finish off what's left? Spearmen just don't do the job.

    I might try something along the lines of this:

    Battle Wizard
    -ruby ring of ruin
    -lore of fire

    Captain of the Empire
    -full plate armor
    -enchanted shield
    -warhorse

    23x Swordsmen
    -standard bearer

    detachment: 11x handgunners

    9x Inner Circle Knights
    -standard bearer
    -musician

    Great Cannon
    Great Cannon

    Hellblaster Volley Gun
    Hellblaster Volley Gun

    1193

    A little less shooty, but overall still strong and there's a little more to fall back on in CC should your shooting phase be unkind to you while your opponent travels up the board.

  8. #6
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    A sound alteration. I've made two slightly different alternatives; which utilise a leadership 9 character to lead the army. In the 2nd case, he will be able to neutralise (if not kill outright) nearly all Killy characters he comes accross.

    Alternative one: (1,200 points)
    Arch lector, heavy armor, enchanted shield, barded warhorse
    master engineer
    battle wizard; level 2 ruby ring
    9 inner circle knights; banner
    20 swordsmen; banner
    detachment: 6 archers
    10 handgunners
    2 great cannons
    hellblaster

    Alternative 2:
    Arch lector, heavy armor, shield, barded warhorse
    van horsmann's speculum
    master engineer
    battle wizard ruby ring
    9 inner circle knights; banner
    20 swordsmen; banner
    detachment: 5 archers
    12 handgunners
    2 great cannons
    hellblaster

  9. #7
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    I've been away for a good while (playing and painting Chaos & 40K), but over the last couple of months I've collected some Empire units.

    I have room for improvement, but this is what I've came up with so far:

    Arch Lector: Heavy armor, Great Weapon, Talisman of Pres. and charmed shield (vs shooting).

    Wizard, lvl 1 Ruby Ring

    24x Swordsmen, Full cmd
    detachments:
    9 Handgunners (wizard here)
    10 handgunners

    Great cannon

    2x 5 pistoliers w/ musisian

    Steamtank

    total: 1188

    My fear is that my list lacks the proper punching unit. I do not intend to buy knights, because I really dislike them (ugly old models).
    I do have 10 greatswords and a hellfire volleygun boxed but i'm not sure about a unit of greatswords.

    What do you guys think that I need to add/ remove before his list become's a bit of playable?

  10. #8
    LO Zealot d_k_patt's Avatar
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    58 (x4)

    You are forgetting the best hammer of all demi gryph knights.

    Put all your core in hand gunner block of 30 15x2 with priest and wizard if they get charged reform to 5x6 use the priests spells to give them a fighting chance.

    Special 3-4 demis and standard at this points level they will tak on even bigger blocks and shine through, 2 units of 5 outriders with barding, a cannon for big things and some helblasters just to do some more shooting.

    I would take shadow over fire as this list and any gunpowder list relies on you shooting your opponent while they come to you slowing them down is better than hitting them with some more str4 fire.

    As for Knights i take 11 great weapon knights of the inner circle with a priest to make 12 and damn is it a good unit.
    Last edited by d_k_patt; June 24th, 2014 at 15:59.

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