They would be, yes. Sort of an odd-ball unit, but if I'm playing Empire Empire, then I might as well. Sort of forgot about the STanks - a shame too, since I've got one already for my Engineer's Guard army.
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Well i think the Empire can be played well but i always feel they have to focus rather than try be balanced an all cav force is intense as is an atillary shooty force either way never leave home without at least 8 demi knights they can pick there way through most things
That's the vibe that I've always gotten from them. Short of Demigryphs, there's nothing that stands out as "oh holy crap that's intense!" It's all down to using the army coherently. I really like that. It makes them a bit more fragile and therefore I would say probably less competitive, but they're not at all bad, and I can definitely keep up. Lately I've been playing lots of Nippon games, I need to get back into throwing some Empire forces on the table.
That's what I like about them to they are just human and they feel like it my units do well o almost always have 2 units of 39 halbadiers with priest and bsb and Lvl 4 wizard go in a small unit of knights (so wizard is in second row) 8 demi gryphs 2 units of pistols and some cannon
I just came back from Adepticon, where I saw (and was one) five empire players in the top fifteen tables in pivotal game four, that's a pretty high level of representation. The other four were spamming stanks, cannons, and demigryphs, taking minimum core, and no more than one infantry block. So I guess that's what's competitive, which is a shame. Dual stanks and eleven demigryphs doesn't come within miles of the empire fluff! With two blocks of swordsmen, one block of greatswords, four pieces of artillery, and only six knights (KOTIC), I went 3-2, including killing over 2000 points of chaos dwarf cheese (four models made up 3/4 of his points!!!). I lost one game on the top of turn one when a council of light blew Elspeth off the board (there were three of her in the tourney, the other two players running her won three games between them) and then overran me with eleven gryphs and two stanks. I lost the other one (game three, on table six!) because Epidemius survived four purple suns and saved seven of eight spirit leech wounds.
I would say that blocks of swordsmen have their use in competitive play. They make great bookends to a line of artillery pieces, warding off the usual fast artillery hunters. If you put all of them into the main block, avoiding the use of detachments, and give them a captain instead of a priest, and they can also be big enough to deny VP. I've had a lot of games where my blocks of 40 have weathered the storm an emerged from the game with about a dozen models, representing a significant, but failed, effort by the enemy to collect their VP and their banner.
Greatswords are good for one thing, and that's killing cavalry. I only take them because I don't have any other access to S5, but they're really quite terrible on a point for point basis.
People laugh at the S2 of mortars, but they wound a ridiculous variety of models on 5s, and I regularly cover 30+ models with a template...worst-case, the center hole is S6 D3 wounds, so they can be hurled at monsters if the enemy has no blocks of infantry to abuse.
My favorite tactic now is KF on barded with a dozen KOTIC. The other day, that unit stood around and died slowly (ok, they killed off 6-7 of the enemy in the process) to nine KOTR+BSB and 3 peg knights while KF killed the KOTR champion, the peg knight champion, a peg lord, and eight grail knights in 11 consecutive challenges. He took one wound and inflicted about 20 points of overkill along the way. Actually, I learned that the unit needs a champion, so that KF doesn't have to accept a challenge from a stupid KOTR champ or a GK, and can throw his attacks at the enemy BSB instead...
Last edited by Marnepup; April 13th, 2014 at 19:47.
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010
If you want str 5 why not take knights with gw you get the 2+ I like them with a priest for hatred re roll and 5++ it's a good combo.
Your right doesn't sound empire fluff accept maybe a nuln army. I like mortars they fill a necessary roll and that's thinning out big blocks for my demis to hit. Swordsmen are ok but again I tend to take halberds with priests again for the 5++ and they can hurt something usually 2 blocks of 39 with priests. I also tend to take a captain on peg with 1+4++ to move him about to help with combat then 3 mortars just because, 8 demis 12 if I can fit them and 10 pistols in 2 units of 5 for flanks
Last edited by d_k_patt; April 14th, 2014 at 02:57.
I would love an Empire army list where men of the empire would be point-for-point on par with the core from other armies, most notably chaos warriors.
Nowadays, my 50 empire lads can stand 2, maybe 3 combat rounds of punishment by a regiment of 18 chaos warriors before they are all dead. The amount of damage they do in return is neglible, while point costs are rougly equal. I would perfectly like an empire army where my men of the empire are at least an equal choice compared to all the special cheeses Empire has access to.
They are just men but my block of 40 halberds with priest has defeated 18 chaos warriors I went horde with 5++ really makes a difference I won and run them down alone men of the empire aren't gunna cut it they need to be buffed I find light works well in empire lists I load up on offensive stuff and take a defensive lore the Ws 10 I 10 is a great spell as is birons striking before most things with re rolls is very handy indeed boosted with 5++ and you will laugh as you mulch that chaos scum empire is about synergy it's never going to work on its own unit for unit with the elite army's
One thing that should be understood about Chaos (and this is coming from a Chaos player) is that they force you to write a solid list. One of the biggest flaws out there are people taking 'standard' shooting regiments and thinking that they'll ever pull their weight. Also, Scouts, as well as overloading on Characters and "support" units will net the same results. Warriors simply can't. They have no option except to get into close combat ASAP and their army never wastes points on shooting or overloads on tons of characters.
Of course the problem is that other armies are built to play with shooting, and Empire is notable for it. The developers just seem not to have realized that it doesn't quite work like that once you get to a real table.
Also, like DK said - Empire is built to play the Buff game, with all the synergy and blah blah. It works when you play the army very intelligently, and the army is certainly good. No game is ever decided purely on the strengths of the books, and Empire is a fairly average book all around. The problem is that the few really solid armies out there, like Warriors or Dark/High Elves, start the game with a bit of an advantage. An equally skilled general playing Empire across from an equally skilled general playing Warriors - I'm giving the win to Warriors. Of course the advantage that the Empire guy has, is that he's almost always the better general. You just don't learn as quickly with Warriors, since you can always rest on your statline and just "slog" your way through a game.
Cap is right empire players are normally better tactically. Tbh like previously said it's about synergy you can load up on demis they are one of the best units in ther game and are a steal points wise. You need to be hitting first dealing some damage I don't like swords they are a waste your paying for the 6+ parry and Ws 4 it's not gunna help much you need to be hurting hence why I go halberds and priest hatred for re rolls and 5++ spell really keeps you in the fight put with the light spells even just the Ws 10 I 10 most enemies will need 5+ to hit you and you will hit first accept asf so against chaos warriors you should be winning combats if you got halberds in horde against 18 you should be able to line up at least 9 which is 18 attacks at str 4