<3000 2.5k high elves vs nagash friendly - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    2.5k high elves vs nagash friendly

    Lords :
    Shadow king

    Prince - shield, blade of leaping gold, helm of discor

    Heroes:
    Lvl 2 Mage (light) - dispell scroll

    Core:
    30 sea guard (10 by 3) - full command, shields (Mage here)

    30 sea guard (10 by 3) - full command, shields

    Special:
    10 shadow warriors - champ, reaver bow (shadow king here)

    40 phenix guard (10 by 4) - full command, banner of the world dragon, spell theiving sword (prince here)

    Rare:
    Great eagle - shredding talons

    This is just a quick rough army list to play against a friend who is using nagash, any help and constructive criticism is much appreciated! The idea is to march the PGs right up to nagash and do as much damage as possible. The SWs will be in front of them to act as a smoke screen and charging barrier. The SG will be either side to act as barrier protecting the flanks and dealing with any close threats and off loading some shooting. The Mage is there is hopefully get off a few helpful spells and carry a scroll. The shadow king is there to buffer the SW and carries a bolt thrower. The eagle was to fill up points and can hold up a unit that looks like it might be a problem. Please leave a comment. Thank you!


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  3. #2
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    Hey Adam, welcome to the forums! It's always good to see more people signing on with the High Elves - it's one of the more active sections of the site and has a lot of good veteran players kicking around in it.
    Also, good to see a first-time poster following the forum rules and getting their post in the right spot. +1 for you sir!

    As far as commenting on your list, generally the types of feedback you'll get around here are going to be geared towards the most competitive options possible, and it's up to you to dial it back or restrain yourself as much as you see fit. That said... Nagash is a beast of a model, and quite capable of tanking whole armies. The 'End Times' material on the whole can be pretty easily abused, allowing for some hideous armies even without really trying. Fortunately, the Elves are up next on the End Times chopping block (our book's out next Saturday, already sold out in pre-orders), so there's that. Of course, I'm not sure if we'll get the same crazy treatment that Undead and Chaos have gotten.

    It might also be worthing checking out the "quickstart guide" that I posted up about a year ago, and edited just a few days ago to reflect the direction that our community has taken since then. Most of what you read here will be explained there, and it basically mirrors any criticisms that you'll hear from the old-hands regarding your unit choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_1234 View Post
    Lords :
    Shadow king
    Not a bad character. Makes your unit faster, carries a bolt thrower, and has a built-in 4+ Wardsave. Honestly, I'd stick him with the Phoenix Guard for the speed boost. His biggest advantage is in helping you get your Death-Star into combat more quickly and more reliably.

    Prince - shield, blade of leaping gold, helm of discor
    No basic wardsave, and the Helm of Discord won't do anything against Undead (if I recall) as they're Immune to Psychology. Princes in general are a bust for High Elves. Combat characters in 8th are overall a weakness, because you can get more wounds and as much or more hitting power from an equivalently priced regiment - with all the bonuses of having ranks and so on. For High Elves, this is especially true, because even our super-expensive-prince is still only T3.

    Typically, Elf armies try to limit themselves to a General and a Battle Standard Bearer. It's "character-lite" but it frees up points for us to get more bodies into the ranks, which is important because Elves are already severely outnumbered, and in 8th, numbers *do* matter. The general is typically a L4 Wizard, covering our Casting and Dispelling needs adequately.


    Heroes:
    Lvl 2 Mage (light) - dispel scroll
    A single L2 is not going to hold a candle to Nagash. The guy is the best wizard in the Warhammer world, bar maybe a named Slann. While I admire trying to get a Dispel Scroll into the army, you're skipping over having a Battle Standard Bearer, and that will be huge when all of the undeath stuff starts forcing you to roll up leadership tests. Even a Stubborn regiment can break on a bad roll, and losing your prized regiment to a 1-in-a-million bad roll when you could have had a second chance, is heartbreaking.

    Core:
    30 sea guard (10 by 3) - full command, shields (Mage here)
    30 sea guard (10 by 3) - full command, shields
    Would you pay 3pts to upgrade a Spearman with a 24" range, S3 bow? Why field Seaguard then? Moreover, we already fight in 3 ranks because we're Elves, and 4 ranks because we have Spears, so why are you going Horde-wide when you could get Steadfast by deploying deep? S3 shooting won't do anything. Those bows are going to be at long range all the time, because anything that gets within 12" of you is charging you (or you should charge it). You're also probably going to be moving, because this list doesn't have enough decent shooting to make a gunline, so you're looking at 5's to hit, and even against lowly Goblins that's a 4+ to wound, and they get their full save. Compare that against our combat stats - same S3, but we're hitting on a rerollable 3+ and getting a lot more attacks out of it. Not to mention, instead of forcing "Panic", you can beat an enemy in combat, break them, and kill the whole unit in one roll. No, it won't happen against Undead, because they're Unbreakable - but shooting won't crumble Skeletons either...

    S3 shooting is utterly pointless except to clear out the chaff that tries to get in the way of your main blocks. Even then, Elves have better options for clearing out chaff (Reavers, Eagles) both of which can also serve as chaff in their own right.


    Special:
    10 shadow warriors - champ, reaver bow (shadow king here)
    You mean Rare, and Sisters of Avelorn, right? Why do you want/need Scouting Elves with more of those awful S3 bows? If there is one, truly, genuinely, unanimously determined *bad unit* in our whole book, it's these guys. I'm sorry. I really wanted to make a Shadow Warrior army too, and maybe I still will - when I can include Wood Elves in my list instead of actual Shadow Warriors.

    40 phenix guard (10 by 4) - full command, banner of the world dragon, spell theiving sword (prince here)
    Nagash is a loremaster, I don't think that he can lose spells. Firstly. Secondly, the Banner of the World Dragon isn't bad on any unit, but it's going to completely override the 4+ Ward on your Phoenix Guard. Why not field White Lions? Phoenix Guard prefer the Razor Banner to help them get through armor, anyways. And again: we don't need to go Horde-Wide. If I'm right, Nagash is on a chariot base, you'll only get 4 models in base contact with him anyways, so you're fielding all of that extra width for just +4A. It's not worth it. Especially because Phoenix Guard don't have anything to keep them in the fight, like Stubborn. You want to be Steadfast, and you want a rank bonus.

    Rare:
    Great eagle - shredding talons
    ASF is a better investment than Shredding Talons. If you've got points left over, Devastating Charge isn't bad at all, but trust me: you'll do a lot more damage by getting rerolls to hit with the strength you have.

    This is just a quick rough army list to play against a friend who is using nagash, any help and constructive criticism is much appreciated! The idea is to march the PGs right up to nagash and do as much damage as possible.
    aka None. Sadly. Nagash is a brick. He'll hold your regiment up all game. The trick to beating Nagash is to kill off the other 50% of his army.

    The SWs will be in front of them to act as a smoke screen and charging barrier.
    So they stand in front of the Phoenix Guard, get charged, die to a man (because the PG will Panic if they flee through them), potentially Panic the Phoenix Guard anyways (because a unit was wiped out within 6") and then the enemy gets an Overrun into your Phoenix Guard? That doesn't really seem worth while...

    The Mage is there is hopefully get off a few helpful spells and carry a scroll.
    Scroll isn't bad. But if you're going to cast anything "helpful" be prepared to face down at least a +4 to dispel it. Against your own +2, that's basically a free dice for your opponent. And I'm almost positive that Nagash is rocking something like a +6. You also only have 2 spells, and have to hope that one of them is helpful. Much better to just take a L4.

    The shadow king is there to buffer the SW and carries a bolt thrower.
    Just a bolt thrower would be cheaper, if you just want a bolt thrower. Also, bolstering Shadow Warriors is a lost cause - we explained that. If you keep him, put him in the Phoenix Guard to make them faster.

    The eagle was to fill up points and can hold up a unit that looks like it might be a problem.
    Never, ever add something "just to fill up points". You might as well just forget that you had those points to begin with. If you seriously can't find ANYTHING better to spend 50pts on, then you're stretching your list. I can tell, because you have full commands, magic banners, and magic items on everything that can take them. Don't do that.
    Also, the Eagle won't hold up anything. It will die, and Undead will always reform because I'm nearly certain that they don't have the option to Overrun - so you barely even redirect them. Nope, Eagles are for hunting down enemy chaff (so, Dire Wolves) and shooting/artillery units. They are dangerous - I've seen them kill a chariot or take down lone characters before, but they're not going to do anything against an actual unit.
    Other suggestions include dropping Champions on all of your units unless you want your characters front-and-center for challenges, and always remembering to drop one model for every character that a unit will be escorting. Right now, you have 10x4 +1 for your Phoenix Guard, when the Prince joins. You could save yourself ~15pts and just start the game with 39 PGs, and then be 4x10 with the Prince.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  4. #3
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    [QUOTE=CaptainSarathai;2662929]Hey Adam, welcome to the forums! It's always good to see more people signing on with the High Elves - it's one of the more active sections of the site and has a lot of good veteran players kicking around in it.

    Hey, thanks for the welcome! As you can tell I'm new the army and to fairly honest the game as well! This as all been very helpful thank you!

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  6. #4
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    BSB is a must... @ Ld9 HElves will still fail a panic or fear check 1 out of every 6 rolls. Last thing you want is your 500+point stubborn unit running off the board before they even get to swing at an opponent. That re-roll is your only insurance against the whims of the dice gods (or just plain probability) Against a fear causing army... how many panic/fear/etc checks do you think you will be making EVERY turn.

    Seaguard? you are paying 3 points a model extra for a ranged S3 attack that you may only use once in a game. Is that really worth it? Spear elves all the way. Also a Lv 4 caster is a must against Naggy... a lv2 will never get a spell off against him...Emphasis on NEVER. At least a Lv4 will have a shot. Plus... think about what happens when you throw a strength buff spell on your spear elves (like Occam's) enemy formations disappear instantly!

    Phoenix Guard are great anvil units... so are spear elves... Where is your hammer? White Lions are our go-to hammer.

    Take sisters over Shadow Wusses. They have flaming magical bows and armor piercing vs destruction armies (i.e. undead) Those ethereal critters that your mundane weapons cant hit... they die fast with sisters. Regen? nope...flaming. All around they are a big PitA vs undead. if you want to add the handmaiden to give your unit quick to fire.
    Last edited by TimA; November 23rd, 2014 at 20:55.

  7. #5
    LO Zealot d_k_patt's Avatar
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    I agree and if you want to actually hurt nagash you need white lions pop the banner of the world dragon there with shadow king and bsb with great weapon get in nagashes face you will be wounding on 5s at least and will get a 2+ ward against him I would say 22 white lions standard champ banner of the world dragon and 2 spaces for your characters.

    Get a level 4 mage plonk him in a unit 14 sisters 5x3 that's all the shooting you will need.

    Drop to spears horde up 60, 50 will get to attack that will destroy the undead core. Then have some silvers and phoenix guard.

    Hope this helps

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