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    1000pts Friendly, Starting out with HE

    Hello! As the title might suggest, I'm just starting out with High elves along with my buddies who's starting a skaven and night goblin army. We played a 500pts game last sunday and I. Got. Rekt. So I reckon i might as well get some professional help... Anyway, the 1000pts list I'm thinking of using for our next game day:

    Lords: 220pts
    Archmage - 220pts
    - Level 4
    - Lore of life

    Heroes: 120pts
    Noble - 120pts
    - BSB
    - Shield of the Merwyrm
    - Dragon Armor

    Core: 422pts
    18 Spearmen (Archmage and BSB goes here, 5x4) - 192pts
    - FC

    5 Silver Helms - 115pts
    - Shields

    5 Silver Helms - 115pts
    - Shields

    Special: XXXpts
    18 Sword Masters of Hoeth - XXXpts

    Total of 996pts.

    The models above is currently the ones I have available from splitting 2 Islands of Blood with the skaven player along with 1 extra Swordmaster and 3 extra Seaguards that I bought at the same time as i bought bits to build the BSB. So the Spearmen are actually Seaguard models and the Silver helms are Elyrian Reaver models. Other available models are a second mage and the two characters on griffons from the IoB sets.

    Anyway, I'm totally new to fantasy battles but I've been lurking some forums to see what most HE players run and to get a grasp on some of the usual tactics of FB such as anvil&hammer. What do you guys think of the list? And what other hot tips have you got for the newbie?

    Edit: forgot to mention the mage's lore...

    Last edited by DommeDan; January 13th, 2015 at 20:49.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Blackadder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DommeDan View Post
    Hello! As the title might suggest, I'm just starting out with High elves along with my buddies who's starting a skaven and night goblin army. We played a 500pts game last sunday and I. Got. Rekt. So I reckon i might as well get some professional help... Anyway, the 1000pts list I'm thinking of using for our next game day:

    Lords: 220pts
    Archmage - 220pts
    - Level 4
    - Lore of life

    Heroes: 120pts
    Noble - 120pts
    - BSB
    - Shield of the Merwyrm
    - Dragon Armor

    Core: 422pts
    18 Spearmen (Archmage and BSB goes here, 5x4) - 192pts
    - FC

    5 Silver Helms - 115pts
    - Shields

    5 Silver Helms - 115pts
    - Shields

    Special: XXXpts
    18 Sword Masters of Hoeth - XXXpts

    Total of 996pts.

    The models above is currently the ones I have available from splitting 2 Islands of Blood with the skaven player along with 1 extra Swordmaster and 3 extra Seaguards that I bought at the same time as i bought bits to build the BSB. So the Spearmen are actually Seaguard models and the Silver helms are Elyrian Reaver models. Other available models are a second mage and the two characters on griffons from the IoB sets.

    Anyway, I'm totally new to fantasy battles but I've been lurking some forums to see what most HE players run and to get a grasp on some of the usual tactics of FB such as anvil&hammer. What do you guys think of the list? And what other hot tips have you got for the newbie?

    Edit: forgot to mention the mage's lore...
    First off I'd suggest checking out these threads: https://www.librarium-online.com/foru...art-guide.html ; Ulthuan • View topic - The 8e High Elves Handbook

    As they go through the book unit by unit with what's good/bad etc

    Otherwise, onto your list!

    Liking the heroes, though maybe for 1k a lvl 4 and bsb is a bit much, I'd consider a lvl 2 + bsb instead, or possibly even just a lvl 2. In addition I'd also be inclined to go for an offensive set-up for the lore too, as it'll make it easier to win combats considering close combat is the only thing you've got to kill stuff with - against skaven and goblins you're always going to be outnumbered so it's gonna pay to clear some of them off first I think.

    Spearmen are good - might want to buff them to 20 though.

    Silver helms, again are good, but I'm personally not too keen on cav, particularly in small units of 5... - if you're using them as re-directors then reavers or eagles are better I think as they're cheaper, and equally if you're using them for combat I think 1 big unit or just swapping out for dragon princes is the better option - and even then that's if you want to field cavalry over infantry.

    Which leads me onto the sword-masters. Don't get me wrong, swordmasters are awesome, but in my experience white lions do it better - for the same cost you get a better save vs shooting (which is what will shred your swordmasters), stubborn, and S6. Yes you get less attacks but remember that anything with multiple attacks in ranks after the first rank only attacks once anyway, which in my view makes lions the better option. For 50pts too you can get the banner of the world dragon on them, which will make them extremely difficult to shift via magic should the enemy be inclined to try and kill them that way (which they will...trust me...I lost a 400 point unit of them once because I forgot to dispell a spell...just buy it.) I would also say actually that investing in these is also better than investing in cavalry, since you can get more of them, but that's personal preference.

    Honestly it depends on how you want to play too - were you looking for an offensive or defensive play-style? Lots of shooting or magic or more combat focus? All cav maybe and so on, there are a number of possibilities , if you give us an idea on what you're looking for we can guide you in a good direction.

    One idea you could try could be a Sea-guard themed list if you wanted - namely a defensive gunline of sea-guard (or spearmen & archers) + bolt throwers, a strong offensive magic phase, and as many elite combat infantry as you can manage to finish off whatever gets across the table. Think a big block of white lions (or swordmasters, but keep them screened) plus archers/sea guard and 2-4 bolt throwers with a wizard or two & you're on the right lines. I haven't tested such a list so it might be crap, but against goblins & skaven I reckon it could work.
    Last edited by Blackadder; January 13th, 2015 at 22:00.

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    Thanks for the quick answer and for the article links!

    I like almost all of your suggestions as they kind of sum up where i want to go with my army in the future. The thing is, right now, I own a limited amount of models (I'll give you a list further down) and i won't buy anything new for a while. The reason is, when I played 40k I tended to buy a lot of stuff but I never got around to paint them, or to actually play with them! So this time around, I got a sweet deal on two IoB and I've decided that i won't buy anything more until I've painted about 80-90% of the models I currently own. Maybe it's silly...

    As for the suggestions about cavalry/not cavalry it boils down to the models i own:
    2 Mages
    2 Noble/prince on Griffon
    1 BSB with Bow/shield/hand weapon (Hallelujah for magnets!)
    23 Lothern Sea Guard (2 FC)
    21 Swordmasters (2 FC)
    10 Elyrian Reavers.
    Since I'm just playing friendly games I can just announce that "this game, these Elyrian reavers are Silver helms/Dragon Princes" or "these SMs are White Lions/Phoenix Guard", you get m point. Anyway this is the amount of models I'm limited to. Even though I want, I can't make a Deathstar unit of 35 White lions because I don't have 35 models to represent them.

    As for if I want to go offensive/defensive with my army... Well... That I actually want to ask you what you guys think is best. I'll give a super condensed battle report to give you an idea of what I'm up against:

    When i played the skaven I had a ball of SM with a mage and two units of Elyrian Reaver. The SM ate one unit of 30 slaves for dinner, but while they ate, the other two units of clanrats where like: "f**k this" and started moving away. I couldn't catch up with them and all the while I tried, his lvl 4 "mage" threw magic at my SMs and in the end, he won with VP. I played a similar list against the guy with Night Goblins and I just didn't know how to deal with his fanatics. How do you deal with them? I did manage to kill of his Mangler squig before he ate my army alive but in the end, the dice gods was NOT in my favor and after some nasty fanatics to the SMs faces, he won by sheer numbers...

    Here's a new list with some of the suggestions you made:

    Heroes: 295pts
    Mage - 145pts
    - Level 2
    - Dispel scroll
    - Lore of High magic

    Noble - 150pts
    - BSB
    - Shield of the Merwyrm
    - Sword of Anti Heroes
    - Dragon Armor

    Core: "Around 420pts"
    19 Spearmen (Mage here 5x4) - 201pts
    - FC

    5 Elyrian Reavers - XXpts

    5 Elyrian Reavers - XXpts

    Special: 340pts
    20 White Lions (BSB here, 7x3)- 340pts
    - FC
    - Banner of the world

    Total of "around 1000pts".

    Also worth mentioning that we scrapped the only 25% heroes rule.

    So, some questions. Where do you think is the best place to keep my characters? Should I switch the spearmen for archers, put the mage in there and just shoot while my CC unit & BSB eats some goblins/skavens? The Reavers are there to direct charges and hopefully get the fanatics out early and getting rid of them, same with manger squig.

    Sorry for the wall of text...

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    Senior Member Blackadder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DommeDan View Post
    Thanks for the quick answer and for the article links!

    I like almost all of your suggestions as they kind of sum up where i want to go with my army in the future. The thing is, right now, I own a limited amount of models (I'll give you a list further down) and i won't buy anything new for a while. The reason is, when I played 40k I tended to buy a lot of stuff but I never got around to paint them, or to actually play with them! So this time around, I got a sweet deal on two IoB and I've decided that i won't buy anything more until I've painted about 80-90% of the models I currently own. Maybe it's silly...

    As for the suggestions about cavalry/not cavalry it boils down to the models i own:
    2 Mages
    2 Noble/prince on Griffon
    1 BSB with Bow/shield/hand weapon (Hallelujah for magnets!)
    23 Lothern Sea Guard (2 FC)
    21 Swordmasters (2 FC)
    10 Elyrian Reavers.
    Since I'm just playing friendly games I can just announce that "this game, these Elyrian reavers are Silver helms/Dragon Princes" or "these SMs are White Lions/Phoenix Guard", you get m point. Anyway this is the amount of models I'm limited to. Even though I want, I can't make a Deathstar unit of 35 White lions because I don't have 35 models to represent them.

    As for if I want to go offensive/defensive with my army... Well... That I actually want to ask you what you guys think is best. I'll give a super condensed battle report to give you an idea of what I'm up against:

    When i played the skaven I had a ball of SM with a mage and two units of Elyrian Reaver. The SM ate one unit of 30 slaves for dinner, but while they ate, the other two units of clanrats where like: "f**k this" and started moving away. I couldn't catch up with them and all the while I tried, his lvl 4 "mage" threw magic at my SMs and in the end, he won with VP. I played a similar list against the guy with Night Goblins and I just didn't know how to deal with his fanatics. How do you deal with them? I did manage to kill of his Mangler squig before he ate my army alive but in the end, the dice gods was NOT in my favor and after some nasty fanatics to the SMs faces, he won by sheer numbers...

    Here's a new list with some of the suggestions you made:

    Heroes: 295pts
    Mage - 145pts
    - Level 2
    - Dispel scroll
    - Lore of High magic

    Noble - 150pts
    - BSB
    - Shield of the Merwyrm
    - Sword of Anti Heroes
    - Dragon Armor

    Core: "Around 420pts"
    19 Spearmen (Mage here 5x4) - 201pts
    - FC

    5 Elyrian Reavers - XXpts

    5 Elyrian Reavers - XXpts

    Special: 340pts
    20 White Lions (BSB here, 7x3)- 340pts
    - FC
    - Banner of the world

    Total of "around 1000pts".

    Also worth mentioning that we scrapped the only 25% heroes rule.

    So, some questions. Where do you think is the best place to keep my characters? Should I switch the spearmen for archers, put the mage in there and just shoot while my CC unit & BSB eats some goblins/skavens? The Reavers are there to direct charges and hopefully get the fanatics out early and getting rid of them, same with manger squig.

    Sorry for the wall of text...
    Nah that aint silly, models are expensive, makes sense to try & make use of what you've got, and it's always more satisfying in my view to use things as they are rather than have stand-ins - Swordmasters can work too, they're great, but you've just got to account for the fact they're more fragile and thus require more protection, that's all.

    In my opinion there is no perfect combo for building your lists (although you can of course build bad lists), so the offensive/defensive thing really comes down to what you want to do I think - both are viable, so I'd test a couple of lists and play-styles and see which you like.

    In terms of your battle report I think part of the problem was tactics - your swordmasters got strung along by the enemy units and whittled down before they could kill them, I'm surprised you couldn't catch them though as I thought elves had a higher movement value than skaven, although I could be wrong. In any case what you want to do in that situation is buff your SM defence against magic (preferably with BotWD) as well as slow your enemies down via magic (flame cage, miasma, net all do this well) or by tying them up in combat (even if it's just for a turn) with a charge from one of your chaff units. Chaff is also the answer to fanatics too - send a unit of reavers with a musician within range of the fanatic so it has to leave the unit, flee, regroup (you get +1ld when rallying with the musician), and promptly shoot/magic the little bugger into oblivion.

    In terms of characters, the latest FAQ said you can have up to 50% on lords AND 50% on heroes, but I'd still be sparing with your points on them - special choices (and rare with the frost phoenix and bolt throwers) are where high elves shine. As for position, it depends on how you deploy but i'd put your BSB in with your spearmen to make them less likely to run away - ld9 with re-rolls will probably pass most of the time, and the lions, while you should still keep them in BSB range, don't really need the extra ld buff a noble brings in my view due to stubborn (ld8 stubborn with re-rolls is pretty solid).

    As for your list - looking better. Only changes I'd make would be to just have standards on combat units and to drop the sword of anti-heroes on your BSB as well as his dragon armour down to heavy armour (with the shield in combat you're getting a 4+ parry so don't need the regular 6+ ward you'd get from dragon armour, which won't save you very often the rest of the time anyway). You maaaaay want to consider a champion on the lions for taking challenges against the odd enemy hero should they challenge your wizard (whom you should always decline challenges with) as the champion on a good day just might kill off an enemy fighty hero (since most of them, besides chaos and stuff like that have 2 wounds) but only if you've got points to spare.

    As for the reavers you could drop them to 1 unit of 5 and get an eagle instead of the second unit, which'd save you a further 30 odd points too which could be spent elsewhere - with the remaining points you could maybe look at some upgrades for your units/characters besides what you've got, or if you're very lucky maybe invest in another full unit like a bolt thrower or something.

    Hope that helps!

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