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  1. #1
    Junior Member Lady Phoenix's Avatar
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    Please Critique My First High Elf Army

    Im looking to create, paint and play with the following as a basic 1,500 point army.

    Would appreciate constructive comments please

    Here are my thoughts.

    Lord on Griffon - Why not
    Wizard lev 3 - To learn battle magic (Ex Chaos Warriors player so have no idea what magic is )

    2 x Archer units - for longer range ballistics
    1 x Spearmen - Make use of that extra rank attack
    1 x Sword masters - Cos Im told they are awesome
    3 x Chariots - I feel these are cheap and quick and used as cannon fodder can tie up enemy units possibly enabling me to flank attack.

    In battles with higher points Ill add a Phoenix

    Style of play - I feel with High Elves Im more of a defender than an attacker so would be happier to wait for my opponents to come to me, shooting at them while they move.

    I also suspect that magic choices are laughable, but please bear in mind that as a Warhammer player I rate myself as about 3/10 and high elves about 1/10

    Thanks in advance


    Army Size
    Army (0-2999 points)

    Lords (482pts)

    Archmage
    High Magic, Wizard Level 3

    Prince
    Lance, Light Armour
    Griffon

    Core (615pts)
    15 Archers
    Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, Light Armour
    15 Archers
    Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, Light Armour

    Spearmen
    Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, Lichebone Pennant

    Special (345pts)
    5 Sword Masters of Hoeth
    Musician, Champion, Sword of Swift Slaying, Standard Bearer, Lichebone Pennant

    Tiranoc Chariot
    Tiranoc Chariot
    Tiranoc Chariot

    Last edited by CaptainSarathai; March 3rd, 2015 at 08:35. Reason: Never, EVER, do that again - please

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  3. #2
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    Hey there, welcome to LO and to the High Elves. To get the nasty rules stuff out of the way, I edited your post for you. It's against site rules to post "naked" points costs for upgrades (7pts for a Lance, for example) or the total for any model/unit without upgrades. It is also against the forum rules to post statlines (something which happens with BattleScribe). I removed all of that for you. Also, in the future, please take a moment to look at your posts, and maybe edit them yourself if possible - the Battlescribe "copy/paste" function really doesn't lay itself out so neatly on our forums. Your post was almost impossible to read. I think I've sifted through most of it, and now we can get onto the actual army itself!

    Lord on Griffon - Why not
    'Why not' indeed. While a Griffon isn't a bad choice when compared to the Dragons, you're still left with a very expensive, T3 Elf riding on the back of a very big, high-value target. It's quite likely that your Griffon will eat a cannonball and your Prince find himself on the ground. Also, a lone model like this (or any monster) is a better target for spells typically designed to kill whole regiments (2D6 hits is scary against a 3W Prince, not so much against 15 Phoenix Guard).
    If you want to run a flying Prince, my suggestion would be to use an Eagle. You'll benefit from the Monstrous Cavalry rules - meaning that you go up to T4, and the entire model counts as a single target - allowing your Prince's save/ward to be used on the whole thing.

    But really, it comes down to how High Elves play. If we need to kill a target, we can spend the same number of points that you've dropped on that Prince (with or without the Griffon) and get Swordmasters, White Lions, or Silver Helms to do the job better. Princes and Nobles work best when added into units to provide some extra "oomph". Most HE players will only take a Noble to use as their Battlestandard Bearer, and avoid Princes altogether. Keeping characters cheap lets us get more bodies into an otherwise tiny army.

    I cannot stress enough the importance of having Wardsaves (and decent armor, where possible) on all of your characters. There are so many things out there right now which will bypass your armor altogether, and a 4+ Wardsave effectively doubles your wounds.
    A lance on this guy also isn't exactly advised. +2S on the charge is great, until you realize that practically everything you charge will be Steadfast and you're going to be stuck in that fight for multiple rounds of combat, at your paltry S4. It's much better to either snag a magical weapon for extra Strength, or to grab onto a Halberd or Greatweapon. You still strike at Initiative with a GW, and Elf initiative means that you're usually going first against everything except other Elves. The Halberd lets you retain that ASF entirely, but grants +1S for every turn of a combat, making you a lot more likely to carve your way through the enemy ranks.

    Wizard lev 3 - To learn battle magic (Ex Chaos Warriors player so have no idea what magic is )
    I'm a WoC player myself, as well. To be fair to Chaos Warriors, they do have magic. Magic is pretty important in 8th edition, and I definitely suggest going all the way for a Level 4 caster. This should be your General, hidden in a unit where they're safer from cannonballs and rogue spells, and then take your "killy" character as a Noble Battle Standard Bearer.
    Get a Wardsave on this character - Miscast results are more likely to kill you than anything else, and many of them can be avoided by simply having a ward.

    2 x Archer units - for longer range ballistics
    Against what?
    Bows are only S3, and typically, you're looking at needing at least 4's to hit. So even against something like Chaos Hound chaff units, you're going to get 30 shots, 15 hits, and just 7.5 wounds against a unit. Both of your units would need to fire at the same 30pt regiment of Dogs, just to kill it. Wasting almost 300pts on Dogs is exactly what a Chaos player wants you to do.
    The short of it: Elf shooting sucks. Only our Bolt Throwers and maybe Sisters of Avelorn are really worth taking in the sense of true 'Shooting Regiments'. If anyone takes Archers, it's as a method for clearing out chaff. I've always argued that spending an equivalent value of points on either Ellyrian Reavers (S4 on the charge, typically hit on 3's, with ASF rerolls, plus Horse attacks) or just diverting our RBTs will kill that same regiment of Hounds for fewer points, and add a lot more utility to your army.

    Archers definitely do not need a full command. +1BS will typically result in one extra hit per 6-turn game. Compare that to just getting an extra Archer, which is equal to about 3 extra hits over 6 turns. Same price. The Banner is also pointless, as it only adds +1CR for your unit in Combat, and if your Archers see combat at all, you might as well just take them off the table. Ditto the Light Armor. We need to keep our Archers cheap. Bear in mind that the Empire is bringing Handgunners (S4, Armor Piercing) for the same cost or less than our Archers, and Bretonnians/Tomb Kings are getting their Archers for half the price. The only difference to any of these armies is a -1 to Ballistic Skill (which we pointed out is fairly minor). Any other army in the game will out-shoot High Elf Archers, point-for-point.

    1 x Spearmen - Make use of that extra rank attack
    Didn't catch how many Spearmen you were using, but remember that High Elves already fight in 3 ranks. If you're carrying Spears, you need to have 4 ranks to get the benefit, and you should have some extra, "ablative", ranks behind that, so that you don't start losing your Spear benefits after the first casualty. Elf Spear Blocks need to be between 25-35 models, typically. And they are not Chaos Warriors. The stuff that Elf Spears are good at killing, outnumber them by 2:1 or more. We're talking Goblins, Skeletons, Skaven Clanrats, and other stuff that is actually alarmed by S3 attacks.
    I'll never turn someone aside from a healthy block of Spears though, even if I don't use them myself. They do provide ranks to the army, and give us an excellent answer for the kinds of "tarpit" units that we wouldn't want any of our other units to deal with otherwise.

    1 x Sword masters - Cos Im told they are awesome
    "Cos" you play at a Games-Workshop store, don't you?
    They're not that great. Statistically speaking, White Lions are going to outperform them in almost every situation. You have found the only universal exception to this rule however - you have only fielded a single rank of models. That's not good. Swordmasters (and White Lions) are only T3 and only have a 5+ Save. They are not going to survive a long fight. If they're up against something with S3 (Skaven, Goblins, etc etc) who are hitting them on 4's (most will), it only takes about 25 attacks to kill all 5 Swordmasters. That sounds like a lot, until you remember that most of those units have Spears, and are at least 6 models wide, so they get 18 attacks per round. If they're a Horde, they'll get a whopping 28 attacks per round against your Swordmasters. Your Swordmasters will not cut down a regiment that size.

    Small units of Swordmasters (and any elites for that matter) will fall prey to enemy shooting and magic, very quickly and easily. Especially since this is your only unit of them. It would be better to grab a larger unit, something of at least 18 models (6x3). I really suggest going with White Lions here as well, they cost the same amount, but they're Stubborn, +1S, and have a better save against Shooting. Leave your flank attacks to your Chariots - it's what they're for.

    The Sword of Swift Slaying is pointless on your Champion, by the way. It replaces his Greatweapon altogether, so you lose the +2S, and without your GW you already have Always Strikes First. If you give your Champion any magical weapon, it will replace his Greatweapon and he'll get his ASF rerolls (he already strikes at Initiative with a Greatweapon, as per the FAQ).

    Also, you cannot have two of the same item in one army (Lichebone Pennant). One of the units will have to give theirs up.

    3 x Chariots - I feel these are cheap and quick and used as cannon fodder can tie up enemy units possibly enabling me to flank attack.
    Cheap, yes. Reasonably. They're not quick though - remember that they can't march, so at M9, your Infantry can actually outrun them. That makes getting in to flanking position with a Chariot a bit harder, but it's still possible. I can't complain much about chariots in an army with Infantry though, except to say that for the price of these 3, your could get 10 Silver Helms in your Core, and use your Special points for something else.

    Style of play - I feel with High Elves Im more of a defender than an attacker so would be happier to wait for my opponents to come to me, shooting at them while they move.
    Nope. High Elves are actually super aggressive on the table. We're only T3, we're a small army, and like I said: our shooting sucks. We need to get into combat with the enemy quickly, in order to get away from their Magic Missiles and Shooting. High Elves also excel in close quarters - we don't get ASF rerolls with shooting or magic.
    The difference between High Elf "rushing into combat" and the same from Warriors of Chaos, is that High Elves have to be a little more selective of who they get into combat with. They're fragile, and I usually expect my Elves to kill one target of roughly equal value to their unit, and then be worthless for the rest of the game. They just take too many casualties in combat. Shooting and magic is there to soften up the enemy and "take the edge off", but it doesn't do enough to allow us to skimp on the combat troops. Getting bodies into the ranks to absorb those couple of shots and wounds is typically better than standing 30 Archers off to the side picking their noses while the rest of the army tries of fend off waves of Chaos Warriors.

    Dark Elves are - ironically - the better "defensive" Elf army. Their shooting is better (even than Wood Elves in many respects) and they can really lay down the smack with ranged magic and their crossbows. They suffer for it in combat though - High Elves have heavier armor, and our Elites (White Lions, Phoenix Guard) are better in many ways.

    I also suspect that magic choices are laughable, but please bear in mind that as a Warhammer player I rate myself as about 3/10 and high elves about 1/10
    Hey, you're still new - it's all cool. We're here to help get those numbers up a bit
    Obviously, I'm here (and lots of other vets here in the HE section) to answer questions.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  4. #3
    Junior Member Lady Phoenix's Avatar
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    So, in a nutshell, Ive broken forum rules and come up with a terrible army

    Or, put another way

    Ive learnt a forum rule and learnt more about a HE army. Admitedly by making a mistake, but at least Ive learnt from it.

    Thank you so much, Ill look at your notes again later and rebuild my army. There seems to be a big difference between what I think and what actually happens

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    LO Zealot d_k_patt's Avatar
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    White lions are one of the best infantries in the game though it begruges me to say so as i have always loved swordsmasters.

    I agree with cap with regards to high elf shooting it really sucks. You want shooty elves dark elves are your got to guys (though i disagree they suffer in close combat).

    I believe general rule of thumb for high elves is minimum points in core genenrally silver helms though i am not adverse to a good big block of spears (60 10x6 is good you fight in 5 ranks and you will likely be steadfast). Special is where high elves excel the thing is with white lions you don't have to have ranks as they are stubbon 18 is a good size, wide is better than deep with thes guys.

    Also have you considered a sky cutter over tyrianoc chariots i often use these guys in my infantry lists as my flank/chalf clearing unit they move as fast as my foot guys they have a decent armour save (their no cold one chariot thats for certain) but they have good attacks and strength on the charge, impact hits and they fly so you can get in behind the enemy line and cause a general nuisance.

    Cap is the foremost Knowledge on high elves (and most others) and i would say he has always given me good advice

  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by d_k_patt View Post
    White lions are one of the best infantries in the game though it begruges me to say so as i have always loved swordsmasters.
    With the right upgrades & magical buffs, White Lions are arguably in the running for being the outright best infantry unit in the entire game. A fully tooled unit of them can wreck most things one-on-one, (hence why opponents will always want to attack them with multiple units!), and they only really pee their skirts at 3 of the infamous 'instant kill' spells. (due to the unit 9/10 times carrying a rather highly offensive banner!)

    Keep Lions well supported within your main battle line where your opponent cannot isolate them and overwhelm them. Supported by the likes of say Phoenix Guard or Silver Helms and/or a Frost Chicken or Lion Chariot, these guys can absolutely murder most anything an opponent can throw at them.


    Quote Originally Posted by d_k_patt View Post
    I agree with cap with regards to high elf shooting it really sucks. You want shooty elves dark elves are your got to guys (though i disagree they suffer in close combat).
    Actually, High Elf shooting is very, very good at what it's primary role should be; namely removing the enemy's chaff units, nipping a wound or three from big monsters, and/or removing a rank bonus from a key enemy unit before it can charge into combat.
    Their shooting is not in any way meant to remove wholesale units, but keep in mind that High Elves can still put a rather brutal gunline onto the table when they want to...

    Archers & Reavers are great for cutting down your enemy's chaff units, such as Chaos Hounds/Dire Wolves, Furies, other Fast Cav. High Elves are all about getting the match-ups they want. To do this, you need to win that 'chaff war' within the first couple of turns to gain control of the table.
    Archers especially are great for this, while Reavers are also fully capable of picking off a few enemies and then sweeping the rest away with a follow-up charge.

    Sisters of Averlorn are IMHO hugely underrated... Flaming arrows are excellent. Magical flaming arrows are frankly godly! It's amusing to see the likes of Abombs or Ethereal units actively running away from these ladies.
    Hit a regen monster first for example with these girls to strip away their Regeneration save, and then open up with those Bolters/Magic Missles for solid results.
    And against certain armies such as Chaos or Undead, these girls get an additional bonus of Armour Piercing arrows! (because 'holy/light magic forged arrows' vs. 'evil-doers'.)

    Bolt Throwers, (aka Bolters), are simply mandatory. Elf versions can multi-shoot, and with the ability to bring up to 4 of these super cheap war machines, you can actively cripple or outright gun down those middle weight monsters such as Griffons, Abombs and even Daemon Princes!

    Throw all this shooting together with the right mix of Magic Lores in support, and High Elves are not only utter ******** at range, but they can also choose to play a very defensive style gunline army. (Light magic is the top supporter here, as the more Light wizards you take, the better your 'big' spell gets)


    Quote Originally Posted by d_k_patt View Post
    I believe general rule of thumb for high elves is minimum points in core genenrally silver helms though i am not adverse to a good big block of spears (60 10x6 is good you fight in 5 ranks and you will likely be steadfast). Special is where high elves excel the thing is with white lions you don't have to have ranks as they are stubbon 18 is a good size, wide is better than deep with thes guys.
    Most High Elf core set-ups I see are typically either:
    1. Defensive approach = 1-2 Archer units of 16-20, 2 units of 5-6 Reavers, 1-2 units of 6 Silverhelms.
    2. Offensive approach = 2-3 unitsof 5-6 Reavers, 1 unit of 6 Silverhelms, 1 unit of 10-12 Silverhelms.

    The first is the typical set-up for a Light Coven or magical gunline styled army. The Reavers play the chaff role, while the small 'Silverdarts' are used as chaff killers. The Archers work in concert with the Bolters (and occasionally a unit of Sisters) to cut down more resilient chaff such as solo Nurgle Beasts, (as Silverhelms tend to bounce horribly off of them!), and/or strip a couple wounds from lone monsters.

    The second set-up is typical for the so-called 'Silverstar' army build which turns a large bus of Silverhelms into a Deathstar unit, led by a fighty Prince & including the Battle Standard toting the BotWD for instant protection vs. almost every typical counter to a high armour save unit...
    Add in a Lv4 + one or two Lv1-2's w/Beast magic for Wyssan's Wildform.

    Spearelves are sadly a hugely redundant unit, as Archers are much better defenders, (due to their Stand and Shoot + being elves), while as attackers, Silverhelms outshine them due to their ability to tailor to a specific role.
    Seaguard are fun, but expensive, and again, Archers exist.


    Quote Originally Posted by d_k_patt View Post
    Also have you considered a sky cutter over tyrianoc chariots i often use these guys in my infantry lists as my flank/chalf clearing unit they move as fast as my foot guys they have a decent armour save (their no cold one chariot thats for certain) but they have good attacks and strength on the charge, impact hits and they fly so you can get in behind the enemy line and cause a general nuisance.
    As a Tzeentch Daemons player, I can tell you that flying chariots are frankly utterly disgusting things!

    Buy your Turn 2 at the latest, you should have the ability to line something up for a flank shot. While the Skycutter lacks the frankly obnoxious killiness of the Burning Chariot, a bolt thrower shot into a unit's flank can never be outright ignored, (especially if you can line-up a unit with a 1+/2+ save such as knights!), and on the charge, they have a decent damage output like most other chariots.

    Charging into combat with a Skycutter however is always a 'last resort' move. Never send it in on it's own, unless you're up against something stupid like Hounds or 5-6 Fast Cav. Always send these into the flank of an enemy unit that's already engaged with one of your own proper 'fighty' units such as Lions or Phoenix Guard or Dragon Princes, etc...
    Without their bonus impact hits, chariots are overall pretty poop in combat vs. any kind of ranked enemy. (unless you have 'Chaos' in your name!)

  8. #6
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d_k_patt View Post
    Cap is the foremost Knowledge on high elves (and most others) and i would say he has always given me good advice
    Nah, I always defer that honor to Furby. Guy took this book to the US Masters and played last-years reigning champ with almost identical lists. He's just not around much to challenge my 'legacy'

    Quote Originally Posted by experiment 626 View Post
    Keep Lions well supported within your main battle line where your opponent cannot isolate them and overwhelm them. Supported by the likes of say Phoenix Guard or Silver Helms and/or a Frost Chicken or Lion Chariot, these guys can absolutely murder most anything an opponent can throw at them.
    Lion Chariots, nah. Too expensive, and WLs don't need more "damage". You can get away with using Lions front-and-center in your battle lines, as long as you have two things:
    1 - a method of keeping their flanks clear
    2 - an "exit strategy" for what to do when you're down to 5 Lions out of a unit of 30.

    The first thing is pretty important. Not because the Lions will break, but because Flanking them is usually one the best ways to score some "free knocks" against the regiment. Elves are really dangerous when fighting front-to-front, because we get that extra rank's worth of attacks. Interestingly, using a Lothern Seahelm in a regiment of White Lions can really mitigate the need to cover flanks, unless you're foolish enough to open yourself up to a multi-charge.

    The second bit, about having an exit strategy is usually pretty important, but you can "dump it off" if the unit has just killed it's own points value (not hard with Lions). The problem is, against some units, your Lions will barely scrape out with a few wounds remaining. At this point, you are given the option of breaking even (they mop up your Lions) or winning by ~300pts if you can keep the Lions alive. You don't need the strategy to be built into your list - I've often ducked my Lions out simply by having a nearby unit step in front of them for the last turn or two. Just be aware that shoving the Lions straight down the gullet isn't always the best way to generate victories, as opposed to just kills.


    Actually, High Elf shooting is very, very good at what it's primary role should be; namely removing the enemy's chaff units, nipping a wound or three from big monsters, and/or removing a rank bonus from a key enemy unit before it can charge into combat.
    NO NO and NO! Nobody will ever convince me of this, because High Elf bowmen are paying for several things that they do not need; WS5, I5, and ASF. Pick a chaff unit: Chaos Hounds. The T3, 1W models are the easiest thing to kill in the game, chaff-wise. Now, shoot 10 HE Archers at it, and assume we're firing at Long Range.

    10 shots = 5 hits = 2.5 wounds

    Now fire an equivalent value of say... Bret Peasant Bowmen, Empire Bowmen, or TK Skeleton Archers

    17 shots = 5.6 hits = 2.8 wounds

    Or go really nuts and use the Empire options for either Crossbows or Handguns

    11 Xbowmen = 3.7 hits, 2.4 wounds (S4)
    10 Handgunners = 3.3, 2.2 wounds (Armor Piercing benefit lost against Dogs)

    Seriously, when we look at Core missile-units in the game who are cheaper than High Elf archers, we're faced down literally everything, except
    Dwarf Thunderers and Quarellers (+2pts for Heavy Armor, -1BS and no penalty for S&S reactions)
    Dark Shards (+2pts for Repeater Crossbows. That is all)
    Glade Guard

    Of the lot, only Glade Guard are markedly worse off than the HE Archer. Every other unit has a S4 Weapon, or is firing off two shots.

    And as a final "nail in the coffin", compare 14 Archers to a pair of Repeater Bolt Throwers from our own book:
    14 shots = 7 hits = 3.5 wounds
    12 shots = 6 hits = 4 wounds (plus Armor Piercing effect, lost against Hounds)
    and then remember that Dark Elves get twice as many, for even less.

    There are reasons to use Archers as an anti-chaff measure. Furby does it, and lots of players in a higher-tier environment do it. However, most of the time they are also playing with a Swedish Comp system, and HE archers are less of a penalty than RBTs or Reavers in those settings (which should already speak volumes about their table-level usefulness).

    Their shooting is not in any way meant to remove wholesale units, but keep in mind that High Elves can still put a rather brutal gunline onto the table when they want to...
    Two units of Flaming Sisters, 4 RBTs, and a core of over-priced Archers is not brutal. Especially when compared against (or met with) an Empire or Dwarven gunline build, or a TombKings "double-tap" Queen army, a Dark Elf shooty army (even one mounted as Dark Riders), or I would even say a Skink blowpipe horde.
    A lot of it comes down to the ability to trade fire. In almost every one of those cases, the Elves are not just putting out fewer shots than the enemy, but they are also outnumbered drastically, and are unable to thin those numbers out quickly enough.

    High Elves are all about getting the match-ups they want. To do this, you need to win that 'chaff war' within the first couple of turns to gain control of the table.
    Archers especially are great for this, while Reavers are also fully capable of picking off a few enemies and then sweeping the rest away with a follow-up charge.
    Agree on all points except the Archers, obviously. 10 Archers is equal to 5 Reavers (little more, actually). Both units will provide 1 drop for deployment, which is important. Reavers however, get the Fast Cav 'Vanguard' move, and that allows them to not only redeploy and make up for bad dummy-drops, but also to edge-out enemy Vanguards by pushing into the areas where the enemy planned on moving.
    Eagles are the best option that High Elves have for Dummy-drops though, and even then it's a losing fight.

    Sisters of Averlorn are IMHO hugely underrated... Flaming arrows are excellent. Magical flaming arrows are frankly godly! It's amusing to see the likes of Abombs or Ethereal units actively running away from these ladies.
    Hit a regen monster first for example with these girls to strip away their Regeneration save, and then open up with those Bolters/Magic Missles for solid results.
    And against certain armies such as Chaos or Undead, these girls get an additional bonus of Armour Piercing arrows! (because 'holy/light magic forged arrows' vs. 'evil-doers'.)

    Bolt Throwers, (aka Bolters), are simply mandatory. Elf versions can multi-shoot, and with the ability to bring up to 4 of these super cheap war machines, you can actively cripple or outright gun down those middle weight monsters such as Griffons, Abombs and even Daemon Princes!
    I'll agree that Sisters are under-rated, and that RBTs are great, if not a little overpriced compared to the same offers in other armies. The two working together is where you get your kills - Sisters bang off the Regen, and then you follow up with the RBT shots.
    The reason that they are unpopular is that you're throwing a lot into your Rare here. 25% Core, +25% Rare on shooting, and then probably about 13% characters at a minimum, is going to leave you with very little in the list that's able to hold the line when the shooting stops. If you use Archers, you're shooting yourself in the foot - they're overpriced. They can't hold the line, and if you meet an enemy who has similarly kitted their list for range, you'll be outshot instead. Going with Spears or Silvers means that you aren't going "full gunline", and every turn that your Spears aren't fighting, 25% of your army is just sitting there picking it's nose: again, paired against a full-combat list and you won't hold the line, against full-shooting, you'll be outgunned by at least 25%.

    Throw all this shooting together with the right mix of Magic Lores in support, and High Elves are not only utter ******** at range, but they can also choose to play a very defensive style gunline army. (Light magic is the top supporter here, as the more Light wizards you take, the better your 'big' spell gets.
    Really, this is the only way to play HE successfully at range. It comps terribly in any tournament where that matters, and it's very boring for yourself and your opponent otherwise. Basically, you're looking at:

    25% Core -
    nobody cares what you take here. Personally, I say Spears and Reavers, but if you wanna take Archers, all the power to you. The rest of the cheese-fest will carry it.

    Allarielle w/ Lore of Light (for the Banner)
    Noble BSB w/ Banner of Avelorn (for +4 on Light Spells including the Banner/unit)
    L1 Light Wizards - as many as you can take in your Heroes slot.

    25%
    4x RBTs
    as many Sisters as you can fit in the difference

    Some folks will use Phoenix Guard as a central block, a lose a few Wizards and Sisters in the offing. It's worth it to get them and toss them the Banner of the World Dragon, for a 2+ Wardsave against Miscast wounds, and against enemy Magic. The unit has a 4+ Ward against enemy ranged weapons, and all the characters get Allies 5+ Ward.

    Mostly, you're using the "Light Star" to win though, that being Allie and the Wizards. The shooting is just there as an add on, since you want to just keep lobbing Magic Missiles, and you can't do that from inside a combat.

    I can go on a rant about the BT on a Skycutter too, although I don't think that the unit itself is bad - just the underpowered, overpriced, rarely-practical Bolt Thrower option. Skycutters are basically just a middle ground between Eagles and TCs. Good unit, because you're right: Flying on a Chariot makes one big problem unit, but they should be used to clear out small units in the back field, get extra flyers into an "Airforce" theme build, clear Chaff, and add some reasonable "pile on" damage to ongoing combats.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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    LO Zealot d_k_patt's Avatar
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    I would say cap that your advice is more suited to my style of play

    I have to agree with cap on all points here sadly for chalf clearing there are better units for the job over archers I have always thought high elves need to be focused and to that point their CC units are their best units so you will find they are best focused in Close combat.

    Dark elves can sit back and counter charge my dark elves i don't leave home without my block of 30 dark shardes and shields. The unit poors 60 armour piercing shots a turn and can be an anvil in CC with a 5+ 6+ parry, supported by soul blight or word of pain to lower toughness they have never failed to bat above and beyond.

    I will agree sky cutters are best left basic smash small flank units war machines and when the enemy are stuck in against your blocks of white lions you slam them in the back (also gives you a swiftstride unit to persue with).

    As for the light council its mean mean mean and with new khaine (if you play it) its even worse as the incarniate of Isha gives all units in 12" a 5+ ward and she has all the spells from life, light and high. A list i trialed had 2 blocks of 28 white lions, 1 block of 24 white lions with BoTWD in this unit went 2 level 1 light spellsingers, incarnate of Isha and noble with banner of avalon core was 30 dark shards and shields and 10 dark riders rxb and shields in 2 teams of 5. It was the kind of list i felt mean playing and it won me the group tourn.

    But i digress the point of this conversation is to help Lady Pheonix with her/his list. So i would say that to start with look at the units you like get some small games under your belt alot of our advice is taliored to the more competetive sceen. If you have any questions we will be on board to help and as you can see we are all passionate about warhammer and helping others (even if we do disagree with one another ).

    Dan out!!!

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