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  1. #1
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    Looking outside our book for core units

    I like some of our choices for core, ER, SH, and SE but I really don't like their kits, and I'm not interested in buying bits and pieces online and spending hours cutting and gluing them to make an all original model.

    So I was wondering what other armies have core units that would work well with High Elf playstyle. I originally thought wood elves for their archers, since I have almost all CC HE. With Wood elves having their new magic arrows, they can be suited to a lot of lists. Now I haven't read their book, only reviews of it, so I don't know much about them. But an important thing (for me) is that I like how they look.

    So basically what armybook from Forces of Order has core selection that would compliment HEs.


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  3. #2
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    NO!
    I'm not positive what you're asking. Are you actually talking about importing some kind of Core regiment 1:1 from another book. So saying, "I'm taking 25% minimum Core as Lizardmen, but the rest of my army is High Elves"? Because that probably wouldn't even fly in a friendly game, let alone at a GW store or any kind of competitive setting. Even with the pacts and other allies-oriented rules, typically, your Core is the one thing that must come from your own army. This is especially true if you're asking what the optimal choice is, because it means that you're potentially really skewing the way that your army fits into the game.

    If you're just asking for models, then I'm also not sure. What don't you like about the High Elf core? Is it the dresses? It always seems to be the dresses. So fixing that might be a tough one. If you're not in to the idea of kit-bashing or buying bits, then you're going to have a really hard time.

    For outright, "the best Core that Order has to offer" I'd say that you should grab a bunch of Lizardmen with spears. They're Chaos Warriors, but cheaper, slower, and harder to break.
    Otherwise, snagging Empire Knights of the Inner Circle with Greatweapons is a good way to get a butt-load of extra S6 into your Core allowance, and keep a 2+ Save on the Knights.
    Guns or just about anything from Dwarfs would also work, but they'll slow down the rest of your army by quite a lot (march 6", vs move 5").

    But yeah, I'd say that you'd get a lot more respect and acceptance if you were willing to sit down and mash together some bits and kits to make something cool and unique. Even then, I don't know what you'd want to make your Elves look like.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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    I went to a GW store some odd weeks ago and had a discussion with the guy there about HE core and such. He told me a bunch of ways I could mash kits together to make unique looking HE models. I didn't want to do that, so I asked him how allies work in fantasy(I played 40k for a little while, and knew how it worked in that game). He told me as long as they're from the same faction I.e. order and destruction, it works like 40k. I take a general and two unit types from said book, and whatever else I'd like, but the book specific magic items can't transfer.

    What I don't like about the SH kit is that its simply outdated, and block looking.
    The spearmen look better but still not what I like. I thought of mashing them with the eternal guard kit if I end up using them. Their gilded shields look nice.
    The ellyrian reavers are cool looking, but come with a champ which I'd never take, and no muse which I usually do take.
    You mentioned the dresses. I think they look good on phoenix guard and swordmaster and all else.

    Anyway, if its not acceptable even in friendly games I suppose I'll start looking for some artistic inspiration.
    If you're wondering why Id rather not make my own original models, its because it seems like it could easily become a lot of work and I'll end up sinking a lot of money into doing it by buying x amount of kits to mash into let's say spearmen.

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  6. #4
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serathane View Post
    I went to a GW store some odd weeks ago and had a discussion with the guy there about HE core and such. He told me a bunch of ways I could mash kits together to make unique looking HE models. I didn't want to do that, so I asked him how allies work in fantasy(I played 40k for a little while, and knew how it worked in that game). He told me as long as they're from the same faction I.e. order and destruction, it works like 40k. I take a general and two unit types from said book, and whatever else I'd like, but the book specific magic items can't transfer.
    Well, if he's cool with that at his store, then I guess it's alright, but those are by no means official rules. Currently, you can only use the 'Scrolls of Binding' or 'Sorcerous Pacts' (Daemons/Undead) from the 'Storm of Magic' stuff, and it all comes from your Special allowance. There are no official "Use units X in army Y" rules in Fantasy, unless you are playing the straight allies rules from the core book (two separate army lists in a single force).
    You'd also still have to field minimal core as High Elves, if you were allying something into a High Elf army - even by his rules, it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serathane View Post
    If you're wondering why Id rather not make my own original models, its because it seems like it could easily become a lot of work and I'll end up sinking a lot of money into doing it by buying x amount of kits to mash into let's say spearmen.
    If you go through a bits supply, and don't buy full kits, you can actually build units for a fairly low price. Case in point, I was building Chaos Warriors with a mix of Warrior and Gor parts. I ended up spending no more for my 20 Warriors than I would if I had purchased all of the kits together. GW prices in the stuff that you aren't using: baubles, pouches, optional heads/arms, spares, etc. You cut those out, and then price the bits down, and you can save a few dollars.
    Unfortunately, that's not always the case. Looking at a site called BitsandKits in the UK, you're paying about $60 for a regiment of 16 Spearmen using just the High Elf heads and arms. Their pricing is on the high-side, because they sell everything individually and tend to overprice just a little.

    Spears are a losing argument though. You need a lot of them. If you were doing Silver Helms, check out these guys:

    They're classic Silver Helms on Tyrion's horse. Super expensive to go that route. But, a cheap way to get a leaping, caparisoned horse, is to go through the Bretonnian kits. I agree that the High Elf horses don't look too good. Fixing the Silver Helm's bodies isn't terribly hard either - a simple spacer in the waist helps to pull them up and make them sit a little taller in the saddle. Cover the join with a sash or something, and you're golden.

    But you can't have the best of both worlds. Your regiments are either going to be cheap, or gorgeous. I mean, if you just want cheap Elves you can buy up the Mantic stuff for $1/model and have an army of really weird looking Elves. Or you can drop some cash and be content that your army will be one of the best looking ones on the table.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  7. #5
    Senior Member TornadoCreator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serathane View Post
    I went to a GW store some odd weeks ago and had a discussion with the guy there about HE core and such. He told me a bunch of ways I could mash kits together to make unique looking HE models. I didn't want to do that, so I asked him how allies work in fantasy(I played 40k for a little while, and knew how it worked in that game). He told me as long as they're from the same faction I.e. order and destruction, it works like 40k. I take a general and two unit types from said book, and whatever else I'd like, but the book specific magic items can't transfer.
    Wow, that guy spun you a line there. That may be OK in his store, when he's working there specifically to tell people he's said that, but try that literally anywhere else and you'll have an uproar...

    Allies are quite explicitly described in the BRB and at no point does it support what he told you at all. In short you got a GW employee who plays 40k, but not fantasy outside of the bare minimum required for his job, and as such he doesn't know the rules (sadly more common than you'd think). Allied armies are designed primarily to allow 4 player team games, it's assumed you have two separate armies each with their own general, their own units, and therefore, their own core. The rules decide how inspiring presence, psychology, and magic effect allied armies; nothing more.

    There are now exceptions to this though. With some books allied troops have been added; namely Tamurkhan, Nagash, and Glottkin. Tamurkhan is the forgeworld book that includes rules for a fragile chaos alliance, as well as rules for including Chaos Dwarfs in standard Warriors Of Chaos. Nagash has rules for including Vampire Counts in Tomb Kings and vice versa, as well as the Lore Of Undeath that allows any army to raise Undead. Glottkin includes rules for a true merging of all the Chaos armies, meaning you can now include Warriors in a Daemons army, Daemons in a Beastmen army etc. All three armies Warriors Of Chaos, Daemons Of Chaos and Beastmen are in effect interchangable (like they used to be way back in 5th/6th Edition). This reaches a zenith when it becomes clear that a Warriors Of Chaos army, specifically with a Warriors Of Chaos general; can legitimately include units from Daemons, Beastmen, Chaos Dwarfs, as well as summon Vampire Counts, and Tomb Kings using Lore Of Undeath, and the various monsters/units from Storm Of Magic without using any "allied army" rules at all... unfortunately the armies of order don't have nearly as much freedom; you're limited to Storm Of Magic and Lore Of Undeath if you can justify it.

    If you're playing friendlies you could ask if they'd be willing to play with 'Dogs Of War' from the previous editions as a house rule. This would allow you to take units from an allied army in your army, but they would count as rare units. Again though this isn't officially in the rules. You could have a friendly agreement that you can include say, up to 25% in points from outside armies (which I believe was a rule from way back in 4th edition); but at this point we're effectively suggesting house rules.

    I don't mean to be rude, but that GW employee is a damn liar. Clearly he was more focused on selling you mini's than getting the rules right and he outright bullshitted in order to sell you units from different armies you'll never be able to use together outside of his bizarre fraken-games. I'd be shocked if the average fantasy player doesn't get extremely pissed off by that suggestion that GW employee gave you, because frankly it's broken. Trust me, if I only need two units from my main book and they don't even need to be core, you're seeing Chaos Warriors in my Orcs & Goblins army, Dark Elf Darkshards in my Warriors Of Chaos army (core ranged infantry, hell yes). Vampire Counts Cairn Wraiths are going in every army I run, because ethereal is hilarious. I'll be including Sabretusks and Ironblasters in basically every army I run too... Honestly a Warriors Of Chaos army with a few loose Cairn Wraiths, Night Goblin chaff, a bunker of Dreadshards, and Ironblasters and Sabretusks on my flanks woukd be sick... with Hellcannons, Chaos Knights, and Trolls making up my center I could be the most broken miss-match general on the planet. Seriously, that staff member was talking through his arse, he was talking steaming arse ragoo of the highest order.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serathane View Post
    What I don't like about the SH kit is that its simply outdated, and block looking.
    The spearmen look better but still not what I like. I thought of mashing them with the eternal guard kit if I end up using them. Their gilded shields look nice.
    The ellyrian reavers are cool looking, but come with a champ which I'd never take, and no muse which I usually do take.
    You mentioned the dresses. I think they look good on phoenix guard and swordmaster and all else.

    Anyway, if its not acceptable even in friendly games I suppose I'll start looking for some artistic inspiration.
    If you're wondering why Id rather not make my own original models, its because it seems like it could easily become a lot of work and I'll end up sinking a lot of money into doing it by buying x amount of kits to mash into let's say spearmen.
    It's quite easy to manipulate the system into allowing most things. I have a massive unit of Nurgle Marauders that are actually Bretonnian Men At Arms painted to look extra nurgly... They represents parts of the armies of man that have fallen to the worship of Chaos. One that I really liked was a unit of Skeletons using the character Krell, being used as Warriors Of Chaos. I just gave them Chaos Shields, and painted them "Chaosy", and then field them with the Wailing Banner as their units magic banner and the Crown Of Command on "Krell", after all, "not even death can keep the servants of Chaos from serving the ruinous powers". It makes for a very cool, characterful unit. Before today I've planned a corrupted and mutated Tzeentch army built largely out of Tyranids. Inventive planning can work, you just need to come up with ways to be artistically creative.
    Last edited by TornadoCreator; November 10th, 2014 at 06:17.
    Current Armies: Warriors/Beastmen: 5000+ Pts. Chaos Dwarfs: 3000 Pts. Brets: 2000 Pts.
    Ogre Kingdom: 2000 Pts. Undead Legion: 2000 Pts. Kislev Contingent: 1500 Pts.
    Retired/Sold Armies: Dark Elves: 3000 Pts. Orcs & Goblins: 2000 Pts.

  8. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serathane View Post
    I went to a GW store some odd weeks ago and had a discussion with the guy there about HE core and such. ... He told me as long as they're from the same faction I.e. order and destruction, it works like 40k. I take a general and two unit types from said book, and whatever else I'd like, but the book specific magic items can't transfer.
    Maybe he was thinking of Kings of War, which I believe is something like that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Serathane View Post
    If you're wondering why Id rather not make my own original models, its because it seems like it could easily become a lot of work and I'll end up sinking a lot of money into doing it by buying x amount of kits to mash into let's say spearmen.
    It depends exactly what you're going for, but it can work out cheaper even if you're buying full boxes rather than just the bits. I made TK Tomb Guards using the old DE and HE warrior boxes - HE spearmen bodies, with DE arms and spears (counting as halberds), plus spare skull heads and shields from my skeletons. That way, I could make 16 models for £40 which is more or less the same cost as the official models (10 for £25) but I'd end up being able to make 16 DE crossbowmen for free! Of course, it also helps if you enjoy converting stuff, rather than simply regarding creating a unique army as extra work.

  9. #7
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    Well in end times Fantasy there are specail lists that allow you to take basiclly whatever you want out of the three elf books. Which once you get over that mind blower, Its all about a HE army with a Dark Elf Core. Army of the Eternity King. Its a thing. Basically Malekith (dark elf) gains the Phoenix crown (high elf) and the woodies fall in line.

    So in this rules expansion you can combine all 3 elf books into one army. (Baring a few special charecters that got oft in the story.) The basic rulebook allows for you to ally with Lizardmen (or any good army if you wanted to) but its not often (ever) that ppl really try to.

    So if I was wanting a sweet ass killy as fruck core unit id take dark elf Witch Elves. Most choppy OP redonculous unit in the game (pre end times.) As Core!! With a hag on cauldron of blood. Lets say a horde of 40. Thats a huge ass chunk out of any size list and its most assuredly the scariest thing on the board. For HE core. Shiny models with a glaring price tag.

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