WH40K Craftworld Eldar Guardians - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: Craftworld Eldar Guardians

  1. #1
    Senior Member Calixtus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Age
    33
    Posts
    575
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    23 (x2)

    Craftworld Eldar Guardians

    Troops:
    Guardian Defender: WS:3 BS:3 S:3 T:3 A:1 W:1 I:4 L:8 AS:4+
    Storm Guardian: WS:3 BS:3 S:3 T:3 A:1 W:1 I:4 L:8 AS:4+
    Warlock:WS:4 BS:4 S:3 T:3(4) A:1 W:1 I:4 L:8 AS:- IS:4+
    Point Cost: 8
    Unit Size: 10-20/1 Warlock
    Wargear:Shuriken Catapult, Mesh Armour, +Grav Platform
    /Close Combat Weapon, Shuriken Pistol, +2Flamers+5Pts/+2Fusion Guns+10Pts,+Plasma Grenades+3Pts, Mesh Armour

    The standard firearm of the Craftworld Eldar is the Shuriken Catapult, a gun with modest range and a high rate of fire. The ammunition of the Shuriken Catapult is stored as a solid core of plasti-crystal material. A series of high energy impulses originate at the rear of the weapon and fly through the barrel at terrific speed. Each impulse detaches a monomolecular slice of the ammunition core and catapults it from the weapon's barrel, hence the name. The Shuriken Catapult has the following profile: R:18" S:4 AP:5 T:A2.

    Like the Shuriken Catapult, the Shuriken Pistol fires off a hailof razor-sharp discs that all but shreds the flesh of those foolish enough to stand in the way. The main distinctive difference between the Shuriken Pistol and the Shuriken Catapult, is the much smaller, compact version of the Shuriken Pistol, due to the shorter firing barrel which guides and launches the shuriken disc hail from the Pistol. Its effective range is shorter as a result. The compact size of the Shuriken Pistol allows it to be used as a sidearm in close combat, whereas the Shuriken Catapult would be much too cumbersome, unless used in conjunction with the Auxiliary Drive of the Dire Avenger's Avenger Armour. The Shuriken Pistol has the following profile: R:12" S:4 AP:5 T:P, Shuriken Hail.
    The Shuriken Pistol fires off a Shuriken Hail, instead of a single shot like the pistols of the other races. This means that it is treated as an Assault 2 weapon during the Shooting Phase, and as a Pistol weapon during the Assault Phase.

    Plasma Grenades are thrown right before engaging with the enemy in close combat. They are specially designed for use when attempting to engage enemies behind cover.They have the following profile: R:8" S:5 AP:3 T:A1, Blast, Pinning.

    Mesh Armour grants a 4+AS.

    Rune Armour grants a 4+IS, that may be boosted by +1 or +2, depending on the Casting roll of the Spell Augment.

    For each 10 Guardians Defenders, gain 1 Grav Platform. The Grav Platform has Holo-Sphere Projector, allowing it to Fleet together with the Guardian Defenders.

    Special Rules:
    Fleet of Foot, Dying Race, She Who Thirsts,The Path of the Artisan
    Tactical Withdrawal: The Citizen Militia of Guardian Defenders and Storm Guardians are a precious commodity of the Craftworld, being composed of the normal citizenry that comprise the work force and intellectual elite of the Craftworld. Although they take up arms to war, the Eldar will never risk leaving an entire troop of them to be lost, providing the best armour they can equip them as a main issue wargear, while providing orders that should the unit receive heavy casualties that will reduce them pass a certain point, they will have to make a tactical withdrawal from the battle in a way that will preserve their lives as long as possible.Should a Guardian unit be reduced to below 50% of its original unit strength, the unit will immediately Fall Back and Retreat towards their table edge. Should they encounter or be intercepted by an enemy unit, they will engage them in close combat as usual, rolling to see if they Regroup, but should the unit lose even a single round of combat, they will once again Fall Back, Retreating after a Sweeping Advance is made.
    Citizen Militia: For +2 Points a Guardian Defender can increase its BS by 1 to 4, while a Storm Defender can increase its WS by 1 to 4, in the same way. Both types may increase the statistic that is not their specialisation, for +1 Point each. As long as just one model among them takes the upgrade, the whole unit of Guardian Defenders or Storm Guardians have to be entirely upgraded this way, as well.

    Last edited by Calixtus; June 11th, 2020 at 22:19.
    This is my design blog for my future game company, check it out:

    http://creativeartisticwise.blogspot.sg/

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Age
    40
    Posts
    33
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    I'm curious as to what you felt was wrong with the current rules for Guardians and needed changing...?

    I quite like the idea of being able to boost each type according to their specialty, a bit like an Aspect Host. I'm assuming you'd like to rework the rules for the entire army, because as it stands these rules turn a Guardian Defender into pretty much a Dire Avenger due to your increase in the Guardians' armour save and adding 6" to a shuriken catapult's range. Also, you explain two special rules but list another four which don't exist in the game.

    Is the Defender grav-platform free? What are the weapon options? Is it one per squad (same with the Warlock) and not one per 10 Guardians, meaning a squad of 20 would be redundant if the same points get you two with 10-man squads? I guess the only advantage would be to keep them on the table longer, since they're going to run away automatically. If this was actually the case, I'd never field them and would stick to Aspect Warriors...

  4. #3
    Senior Member Calixtus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Age
    33
    Posts
    575
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    23 (x2)

    Oh, I am not sure if you can get two with 20 Guardians. Can you? Ok, you are right, but a lot of what I came up with is quite common sensical. In fact, a large part of it is taken and inspired by someone else's ideas. Yes, you are right, the Dire Avengers now are different, but really, it doesn't make sense for a ranged firing unit, that is a Citizen Militia of a dying race, to have a gun that is only 12". That is not a gun, that is a pistol.

    Also, She Who Thirsts, is basically Ancient Doom, Dying Race is an Eldar version of the Necron's Phase Out army rule, Fleet of Foot is exactly what it is, and The Path of the Artisan is just a special rule dealing with the Grav Platform.

    The Path of the Artisan: Given the due need of fielding a standing militia conscripted from ordinary Eldar citizens within a Craftworld, nearly every single Eldar may be summoned to the fore of the defence of their home, should they be required so, to make up for the lack of numbers of their otherwise declining species. Even as these Guardian militia that is formed from the citizen levy be inferior in experience and skill to the more professional Aspect Warriors that form the mainstay of the armies of the Craftworlds, they bring secondary skills, those that might seem without any genuine military practical use, that comes in line with the other Paths that form the focus of an Eldar's pursuit, as both a training and a safeguard against the temptations of indulging to the whims of pleasure, that once wiped out their race. These secondary skills are those that are chiefly found on the Path of the Artisan, which form the majority of those within the militia, and without any true experience in warfare. As Artisans, they are able and capable of maintaining the equipment of war of the Eldar armies, be it Support Platforms or Vaul's Wrath Support Batteries. When a Support Platform or Support Battery suffers the lost of a Wound, for each Guardian within 2" of it, you gain a +1 to roll, that if successful, recovers the lost Wound of the artillery, even if it had lost its last remaining Wound.

    Dying Race: The Eldar once dominated the galaxy, their empire spanning the stars, with the power to destroy entire systems at the pace of a thought. Now in the era of the 41st millenium, they are nothing less than fleeing refugees from an error committed a millenia ago, at a turn of events called The Fall. Having 75% of their billions-strong population across a hundred worlds wiped out by the psychic birthcry of the Chaos God of Pleasure, Slaanesh, the Eldar are now a dying race, their star-spanning empire shattered and no more, the remnants of these people scattered across a handful of giant Craftworlds, harbouring thoughts of revival and the resurrection of their galactic dominance. For that, the preservation of their species is of foremost priority, and they will stop at nothing to do so. Should troops worth 75% of the total point cost of the Eldar warhost be wiped out, the remaining Eldar troops on the Battlefield will Retreat towards their table edge. This only applies if the only HQ are Farseers or Autarchs in the warhost. The presence of an Avatar of Khaine will force the Eldar warhost to fight to the bitter end, overriding this Special Rule.

    She Who Thirsts: The Eldar are at war with everyone, but they only have one true enemy – themselves. All Eldar know that the reason their civilisation is in such disarray is not due to some lucky Ork Warboss or a Mon-Keigh invasion, but because of their own greed and pleasure from all things in excess. Slaanesh, the Great Enemy, only exists because the Eldar subconsciously willed her into existence, and the Eldar have paid a heavy price ever since. No Eldar will risk such disgrace again, and each and every minion of Slaanesh serves as a reminder to the Eldar of their past deeds. For this reason, the Eldar fight against such foes with more spirit than usual and will go to great lengths to ensure that Slaanesh loses her grip on even one follower. All Eldar units have the Preferred Enemy ability, but rather than applying to a certain race (Tyranids, Orks) this particular rule applies to all Slaaneshi forces (all units with the Mark of Slaanesh, and Slaaneshi Daemons, Greater Daemons of Slaanesh, the Keepers of Secrets). They also have Hatred and Fear of Slaaneshi units.
    This is my design blog for my future game company, check it out:

    http://creativeartisticwise.blogspot.sg/

  5. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Age
    40
    Posts
    33
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    The 12" range of the shuriken catapult is somewhat made up for by Battle Focus (which you've apparently done away with). It means an Eldar player has to think a bit more about what each unit does, what tactics to employ when wielding the glass hammer of the army, especially when there's a random element when running (even with Fleet, which I guess is what you're meaning by Fleet of Foot rather than a variation on it).

    For The Path Of The Artisan, do the Guardians not have to be from the same unit as the weapon? Also, you don't say what a successful roll actually has to be...

    Regarding your rules Tactical Withdrawal and Dying Race, I understand where you're coming from fluff-wise, but only to a point. While it's true that Eldar are all but extinct and regard the life of one of their own over billions of another race, it's ALSO true that this makes them commit to war only when they ABSOLUTELY HAVE to, whether it's for defence or because their Seers have determined that the action is vital to the survival of even MORE Eldar. As such, they fight incredibly fiercely and so one could argue that it's in-keeping with the fluff if they stand and fight to the last man. Game-wise, I know I wouldn't want to field an army that would automatically lose (regardless of how I'd done with objectives) the moment I got to a certain number of casualties due to retreating without even a Ld test, and no ability to rally. An Avatar is an INCREDIBLY impractical protective clause because it's not always feasible to include one in an army, let alone guarantee its survival. It would be very un-fluffy if an Avatar suddenly ran and hid somewhere because if it died the whole game would be lost. And in the case of an Allied Detachment, you couldn't even field an Avatar at all so that kind of small force would be massively unappealing.
    Last edited by andymort; October 24th, 2015 at 07:40.

  7. #5
    Senior Member Calixtus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Age
    33
    Posts
    575
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    23 (x2)

    I see, good points, and I have to address them. We can alter Tactical Withdrawal a little. Let me get to the point on Battle Focus though. It has not been removed, but now renamed and changed a little, as The Path of the Warrior. The main change is now, when an Aspect Warrior Fleets, which only they have this special rule, they may Assault too, as long as they don't Shoot. Not too bad eh?

    I have made in every way the Eldar into an incarnation that is very, very, damn-close to the fluff. Yes, there's a 25% unit limit, but this is where the clever implementation comes in, in how every unit of the Eldar have been buffed, but not their points worth, so the 25% points limit act as a means to moderate this increment, rather subtly. If you know what I mean. The emphasis of the direction taken by my design of the Eldar, is understood this way, as a race that emphasises not just one of the most advanced technology in the universe, but also a focus on developing the martial skill to go with it. So they all have special rules, like for the Dire Avengers, the Noble Stances, the Swooping Hawks, the Great Wind Manoeuvres, the Howling Bansheees, the Revenant Strikes, and so on with the rest.

    In other words, they have made greatly cost-efficient, and they have been given situational special rules, without a supposedly "corresponding" adjustment to points, which Dying Race is meant to serve for that reason. And you will ask if that's the case, the natural correspondence from there is doesn't that make them imbalanced? Not exactly, because like I said, the special rules of each Aspect for instance, is meant to be situational, and further specialise whatever the unit is meant for, and good at.

    There's also The Path of the Witch and The Path of Command/the Leader. I have not shown them here, together with a few other Army Traits. And like I said, I have considrred what you said about Tactical Withdrawal, but I feel we just need to tweak it to be a little more forgiving. You realised I have given them a 4+AS? Which of course, makes perfect sense.

    And oh yea, I understand your lack of understanding of the Artisan rule, basically it is just a lazy way to write it, that +1 to roll means that for just one Guardian, that will be a 6+ to roll successfully.
    This is my design blog for my future game company, check it out:

    http://creativeartisticwise.blogspot.sg/

  8. #6
    Sparta! Exarch Thomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland
    Posts
    1,438
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    198 (x4)

    Quote Originally Posted by Calixtus View Post
    I see, good points, and I have to address them. We can alter Tactical Withdrawal a little. Let me get to the point on Battle Focus though. It has not been removed, but now renamed and changed a little, as The Path of the Warrior. The main change is now, when an Aspect Warrior Fleets, which only they have this special rule, they may Assault too, as long as they don't Shoot. Not too bad eh?
    Actually, that is bad. Do you know what the Fleet rule is in the current edition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calixtus View Post
    I have made in every way the Eldar into an incarnation that is very, very, damn-close to the fluff. Yes, there's a 25% unit limit, but this is where the clever implementation comes in, in how every unit of the Eldar have been buffed, but not their points worth, so the 25% points limit act as a means to moderate this increment, rather subtly. If you know what I mean. The emphasis of the direction taken by my design of the Eldar, is understood this way, as a race that emphasises not just one of the most advanced technology in the universe, but also a focus on developing the martial skill to go with it. So they all have special rules, like for the Dire Avengers, the Noble Stances, the Swooping Hawks, the Great Wind Manoeuvres, the Howling Bansheees, the Revenant Strikes, and so on with the rest.
    So let me get this straight - significantly increasing the power/ability of a unit without increasing the points value (the game mechanic used to provide a semblance of balance) - is a subtle way of moderately tweaking something without unbalancing them? That, right there, is the very definition of unbalanced. And I think you may want to look at the definition of subtle again...


    Quote Originally Posted by Calixtus View Post
    There's also The Path of the Witch and The Path of Command/the Leader. I have not shown them here, together with a few other Army Traits. And like I said, I have considrred what you said about Tactical Withdrawal, but I feel we just need to tweak it to be a little more forgiving. You realised I have given them a 4+AS? Which of course, makes perfect sense.
    As has previously been said to you, if you are referring to things or your 'rules' 'ideas' relate to other 'rules' that only you have seen - then you may want to include them initially, which will save a lot of grief for those attempting to help you.

    And also, how does a 4+ save make sense? You've just given Guardians access to Aspect Armour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calixtus View Post
    And oh yea, I understand your lack of understanding of the Artisan rule, basically it is just a lazy way to write it, that +1 to roll means that for just one Guardian, that will be a 6+ to roll successfully.
    6+ what? What dice are you rolling for a 6+? Is it a 6+ Feel No Pain? Or an entirely new game mechanic you are introducing?
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon

  9. #7
    Son of LO Marius the Possessed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,965
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    355 (x8)

    He doesn't want help. He wants people to acknowledge that he has created amazing rules and has been completely revolutionary and unique. He can't admit how unbalanced and heavy-handed his "changes" are, and how he has simply ripped off other rules and stolen things from Fantasy. Look at every different thing he has tried to change; all of them are incredibly unbalanced, overly complicated, and the very definition of unsubtle. Yet point it all out, use reasoned arguments, describe exactly how it's not going to work, and he simply says everyone else is wrong and doesn't understand him and he's actually a genius that's one day going to be purchase Games Workshop and completely re-write 40k.

    You can't really expect to change the mind of someone who, by their own admission, has only played a couple games, yet thinks that just by studying the rules for a couple months he can fix everything after a week or two of untested tinkering without any kind of outside input whatsoever. At best, he's colossally arrogant and unoriginal. At worst, he's trolling because he has nothing better to do than try and annoy people on the Internet.
    Exarch Thomo likes this.

  10. #8
    Sparta! Exarch Thomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland
    Posts
    1,438
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    198 (x4)

    I know. I'm still trying to figure out if he is sincere or just a troll, and I tried to not get involved but what can I say...I got bored at work and I'm a sucker for punishment
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon

  11. #9
    Senior Member Calixtus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Age
    33
    Posts
    575
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    23 (x2)

    Guys, I just like to tweak with rules. I don't mean to come across as arrogant, but I do have my reasons for what I have come up with, and why I am sticking to them, until sufficiently moved. I know at a glance what I have come up with appears imbalanced, but I have already explained why I feel that is justified. Yes, the Eldar units still stay roughly the same in points cost, but this is balanced by how they have a cap of how many units they can lose, at 75%. I know it doesn't sound better, with me reiterating it again, but I think it is quite a creative design, if I am indeed able to work it out. We can also try cutting down on the total number of abilities every Eldar unit gets, but I have to say, I didn't really had issues remembering the new rules, and although you might say it is because they are my rules, and I wrote them, let me tell you this: the Eldar now plays very situational. Like I had 5 Dire Avengers, facing off against 10 Guardian Defenders, and by playing with finesse and using Cover at times, and Charging when the timing is right, even the Guardians with their superior numbers, lose. I didn't augment anything directly, like a point in Weapon Skill or Strength, yet subtly, if you are able to command and use your Eldar units tactically well and sound, you will win based on strategy, a strategy that comes from an increased number of choices you can make, either to hide in Cover and Attack incoming Enemy forces with Shuriken fire, or to Charged forth against a numerically superior force, so as to tie them up in Assault, where they get stuck in a tarpit, unable to Attack other of your own forces.
    This is my design blog for my future game company, check it out:

    http://creativeartisticwise.blogspot.sg/

  12. #10
    Senior Member Calixtus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Age
    33
    Posts
    575
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    23 (x2)

    I have to say, if we use and reuse every skill, like for instance make Necron's We Will Be Back the same as Feel No Pain, what's the point, since they will be indistinguishable, and work in roughly the same way? That's the reason I have Regeneration for my Saurians work differently from Feel No Pain, if not there's no point really. The races will become too similar, both in gameplay and theme.

    Also, a lot of the ideas I suggested and implemented in the past, is now used by the latest edition of Warhammer 40,000. No one has mentioned that though.
    This is my design blog for my future game company, check it out:

    http://creativeartisticwise.blogspot.sg/

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts