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  1. #1
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    2000 Point Army, Friendly (All Comers)

    Hi All,

    I'm fairly new to WFB, and brand spanking new to Skaven. I recently purchased a fair number of models (though I'm definitely weak on clanrats / slaves), and trying to put a list together out of what I have for now. If I have to pick up more clanrats or whatnot, so be it, I just don't really want to go buying anything specialty. After reading about them and their list, I think I'm just going to really enjoy their particular brand of craziness, and it will be a nice contrast from the High Elves that I started with (Thanks again for all the help Captain_Sarathai, and DK! I'll be bugging you more, I promise.)

    This first list is an attempt to try a little bit of *most* things, just to see what I like, but the overall idea of the list is probably going to be slave tarpits with everything else launching into combat, and then having clanrat/stormvermin units to flank charge and generally help with CR. I know they're mostly worthless in *actual* combat, not sure how well it will work after the combat has been whittled down via magic and shooting.

    So: EDIT: Updated the list due to some changes.

    Lords:
    Grey Seer, 3x warpstone tokens, tali of preservation

    Heroes:
    Chieftain (BS, (not sure if I should give him anything, beyond some kind of survivability in case he gets hit with a template) if he gets challenged he's hiding like the sneaky rat he is.
    Warlock engineer, Doomrocket, wizard lvl 1


    20x clanrats, poison wind mortar ,banners,musicians

    50x Skavenslaves
    50x Skavenslaves

    24x Stormvermin (banner, musician), poison wind mortar

    Special:
    5x Gutter runners (slings, poisoned attacks)
    5x Gutter Runners (Slings, poisoned attacks)
    10x Poison Wind Globadiers (I love the idea, not sure how well they'll work out).

    3x Warplock Jezzails (Champ)
    3x Warplock Jezzails (Champ) is the BS4 on 2 of these worth it? I suspect yes, but not sure.

    Doomwheel
    Hell Pit Abomination
    Warp Lightning Cannon

    The idea is skavenslaves tar pit everything, and everything else just eats through the units while they are stuck in combat. Hopefully 50 will give me survivability for a few rounds of combat. Might be a frustrating way to play for some people, not sure? The gutter runners should be able to go war machine/lone character hunting. I'll probably throw the hell pit anywhere that I think I can really piss my opponent off, same with the doomwheel. I have 2 WLCs, but I want to only run 1 this game so that I can test the other two rare toys.

    Thoughts are welcome, especially experience related things for different units.
    Thanks in advance!

    Last edited by Rikker; April 23rd, 2015 at 17:27.

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  3. #2
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    BatRep and general Analysis:
    Played an Empire list with hellblaster (w/ master engineer), outriders, a cannon, a tank, halberdiers with a detachment of handgunners, lvl 4 (metal), warrior priest, and some knights. Oh, and an obligatory 3 demigryph unit.

    Loving the Doomwheel and HPA. Unfortunately, I left the HPA in combat with a knight unit AND a steamtank for a couple turns and it died, while killing most of the knight unit and not really doing much to the steam tank. It DID effectively keep those out of the game.

    WLC blew up the hellblaster turn 1 (YAY!) Unfortunately, it didn't do much for the rest of the game... kept missing, shooting short, etc. I'm not sure if I'm judging incorrectly or if I just got bad rolls - we'll see.

    The PWMs hit anything maybe 25% of the time. They DID do some damage, but not a ton. The poison wind globadiers quickly became a target when they started throwing into combat - they did OK, snuck a few wounds through on the high armor targets, but not too many. I'm not sure if they're worth it - maybe I just need more of them. The Jezzails put a few wounds through as well, but I had them too scattered and they couldn't focus all on the same target. Really, really need to focus fire with them, as the volume of shots isn't high enough. If they don't work out after a few more games, I'll probably replace them for more globadiers.

    The grey seer dimensional cascaded and put a wound on his unit - note to self - ward save for my BSB! I was more careful casting things like the Dreaded 13th after that.

    I forgot about the gutter runners for 2 ENTIRE TURNS. They'll be more useful when I don't. Also - I'm wondering if I make them a single larger unit? 10 shots isn't terrible though.

    Anyway - food for thought. I also was missing rules (I rolled to hit for the doomwheel zaps), so another play through is definitely required.

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikker View Post
    BatRep and general Analysis:
    Played an Empire list with hellblaster (w/ master engineer), outriders, a cannon, a tank, halberdiers with a detachment of handgunners, lvl 4 (metal), warrior priest, and some knights. Oh, and an obligatory 3 demigryph unit.
    Solid list there. Blaster+ME was probably less useful than an equivalent taken up in Handgunners (seriously kids: crossbowmen for the win)

    Loving the Doomwheel and HPA. Unfortunately, I left the HPA in combat with a knight unit AND a steamtank for a couple turns and it died, while killing most of the knight unit and not really doing much to the steam tank. It DID effectively keep those out of the game.
    If the Abom does that, it's made it's points back. Although you're right: you should keep it away from the STank - it can't really hurt it.

    WLC blew up the hellblaster turn 1 (YAY!) Unfortunately, it didn't do much for the rest of the game... kept missing, shooting short, etc. I'm not sure if I'm judging incorrectly or if I just got bad rolls - we'll see.
    Generally, the rule of thumb is to measure either 8" from the front of a unit, or else 10" from the back of the unit - towards the cannon. For shots going into a regiment, I measure 10" from the back of the base. For shots going into single models or a single rank of models, I measure 8" from the front. It's what I was taught very early in my Warhammering "career," when I played Empire. A veteran showed me, and explained the math, and it's what I've stuck with ever since.

    The PWMs hit anything maybe 25% of the time. They DID do some damage, but not a ton. The poison wind globadiers quickly became a target when they started throwing into combat - they did OK, snuck a few wounds through on the high armor targets, but not too many. I'm not sure if they're worth it - maybe I just need more of them.
    That's what I've always seen as the problem with PWMs - they're not very accurate. I'd swap it out for more Globadiers, like I suggested in DK's thread (that we're the only 3 holding down the Fantasy section right now is ridiculous).

    The Jezzails put a few wounds through as well, but I had them too scattered and they couldn't focus all on the same target. Really, really need to focus fire with them, as the volume of shots isn't high enough. If they don't work out after a few more games, I'll probably replace them for more globadiers.
    That or Ratling Guns, since we did the math on those. Depends what you're trying to kill, but yeah - focusing fire with those guys is going to be the name of the game.

    The grey seer dimensional cascaded and put a wound on his unit - note to self - ward save for my BSB! I was more careful casting things like the Dreaded 13th after that.
    Ward on the BSB for sure, just to deal with Snipers and character-sniping-spells. Otherwise, keeping Wizards and literally everyone else on opposite corners of the unit is a good idea. It helps to avoid those kinds of problems. I learned that the hard way in a tournament with my WoC army; had a Wizard go Vortex from the front&center of a hefty regiment of Chosen - wounded the BSB, sucked himself into the Warp (my general), and reduced the regiment to 4 guys+BSB. My main regiment spent the rest of the game hiding behind a farm-house to conserve points! The guy across the table gave me this long stare to see if I was "alright", and then burst out laughing. Later on he asked why I hadn't put them opposite one another to reduce the damage, and I told him that I thought they had to be front&center. Turns out they don't.

    I forgot about the gutter runners for 2 ENTIRE TURNS. They'll be more useful when I don't. Also - I'm wondering if I make them a single larger unit? 10 shots isn't terrible though.
    Ambushers do that sometimes. Even worse when you remember, and they don't turn up. I've had Wulfric&Co (from WoC) spend the entire game having a kegger on the boat. More than once.
    I'd stick to separate blocks. Just imagine - if you hadn't taken out the Blaster, it could have spun around and wasted that entire regiment of 10. It's why Empire players take them in the first place. With two split units, he would have wasted a lot of "extra" shots blowing away 5 rats, just to eat garbage from the other 5 on the next turn.

    Anyway - food for thought. I also was missing rules (I rolled to hit for the doomwheel zaps), so another play through is definitely required.
    Yeah, getting the rules down is always important. Seems like an alright list though, and just needs a bit of fine-tuning to your style. Can't really help there - Skaven is one of the very few armies that I don't actually own/play, I've just seen them on the table, and generally know my "theory hammer" when it comes to math and odds and such.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSarathai View Post
    Generally, the rule of thumb is to measure either 8" from the front of a unit, or else 10" from the back of the unit - towards the cannon. For shots going into a regiment, I measure 10" from the back of the base. For shots going into single models or a single rank of models, I measure 8" from the front. It's what I was taught very early in my Warhammering "career," when I played Empire. A veteran showed me, and explained the math, and it's what I've stuck with ever since.
    Yeah, I was measuring 10" from the back, but it makes much more sense to do 8" from the front on single rank things. I think I was almost exactly 2" short 3 times that game - all against a single rank/model.

    Ambushers do that sometimes. Even worse when you remember, and they don't turn up. I've had Wulfric&Co (from WoC) spend the entire game having a kegger on the boat. More than once.
    I'd stick to separate blocks. Just imagine - if you hadn't taken out the Blaster, it could have spun around and wasted that entire regiment of 10. It's why Empire players take them in the first place. With two split units, he would have wasted a lot of "extra" shots blowing away 5 rats, just to eat garbage from the other 5 on the next turn.
    Yeah - except I had them scout instead of ambush (I wanted him to spend turns shooting at them if I didn't get his hellblaster first turn) and THEN forgot about them on the side of the board. It was really just a lot of new rules and things to be keeping track of. I'm used to HE where I have about 6 - 8 units on the board ;P. Little rat bastards just wanted to hide.

    Yeah, getting the rules down is always important. Seems like an alright list though, and just needs a bit of fine-tuning to your style. Can't really help there - Skaven is one of the very few armies that I don't actually own/play, I've just seen them on the table, and generally know my "theory hammer" when it comes to math and odds and such.
    Definitely appreciate it! I'll keep tuning as I go and post results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSarathai View Post
    Ward on the BSB for sure, just to deal with Snipers and character-sniping-spells.
    So, my latest dilemma is this: do I spend the pts for Armor of Destiny (when I realistically am wasting part of that, as he already has a 5+), JUST for the 4++? Or can I get away with a Talisman of Endurance (5++), or is there some cheaper option out there? I suppose the Tali of preservation is almost as many pts itself, so maybe it IS worth it? I realize how important the BSB is, ESPECIALLY for skaven (once their ranks are gone, they run at the drop of a hat).

    Maybe I'll play around with it, but I'm happy to benefit from other people's experience!

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    So, I got to play an O&G list with these little rats - fun game! He had a doom diver, big "deathstar" of big'uns with most of his characters in it, unit of squig herders with squigs, some night goblin archers (with fanatics), a couple of small chariots, arachnarok, and a mangler squig, and a small unit of squig hoppers. - oh, and a unit of 6 trolls.

    I.... screwed up my deployment. Badly. My slaves were too far apart, clanrat mage bunker couldn't help one of them. Also, the ambushing gutter runners was a bad plan here, turns out.

    Turn 1: He moved up fairly aggressively. Shooting was insignificant, foot of gork did some damage to a slave unit, nothing crazy.
    My doomwheel rolled on the low side, and I had placed (foolishly) my HPA next to it, so he had to restrain shooting because I couldn't quite get him out of danger (again, poor choice of direction/movement). Jezzails picked up a chariot trying to panic things, he stuck with everything, a lot of his list is actually immune to psych though. Picked off a few of his deathstar with the WLC, just trying to whittle them down. Both mortars missed. Didn't move up too much, trying to stay back and get another turn of shooting - positioned the slaves to be able to get into combat first (again... too far away).

    Turn 2: He charges my doomwheel with the mangler AND the squig herders. Mangler just drops the wheel. Arachnarok charges my HPA. Squig hoppers roll a 15 to get into my globadiers! (they take dmg, break, run off the board, after killing 1 or 2 hoppers. Damnit.) Doom diver blows itself up. Goblin chariot also makes a longish charge into my stormvermin unit to punk my warlock eng, and gets him. Poor planning on my part there.
    Skaven - WLC picks up a few guys, jezzails put some wounds on the trolls (I placed them poorly, they didn't have much else to shoot at), poison wind mortar misses again (one of them died). 1 unit of gutter runners comes on the board and starts picking off his squig herders. HPA/Arachnarok combat rages on, though I'm about to get charged by squig herd in the flank. Charged the slaves into the big'un unit to hold them up (MISTAKE).

    Long story short, the HPA and arachnarok take each other off the board, the big'un horde just EATS my slave units, and gets into another unit (maybe stormvermin) who also were going to die. I didn't put enough shooting into that unit, and had nothing that could handle them in close combat. Poor placement of guys, and a few poor rolls (plus a lucky charge) just... wrecked my army. Now I know how poor leadership is. I was counting on being steadfast, and I simply wasn't after combat with the slaves. No good.

    BUT, I learned a lot about my list, placement, etc, so that was good! I was playing am army with just as many units as I had, which was new, and he just out-deployed me, and I couldn't do enough damage to his deathstar. Good to know, taught me a bunch about my playstyle, and how I'm going to have to play to beat that type of list in the future.

    Comments are welcome if you see anything I did wrong that I didn't mention - I know my gameplay and thought processes still have a long way to go here.

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