VC starting army

[The-Night_Reaper]

I've been away from warhammer for a long time and I'd like to get back into it with a new army. I was thinking vampire counts because I like the idea of a wimpy but unbreakable undead horde supported by some badass characters and monsters. I also like the fluff (just ordered Vampire Wars off of amazon)

I'm trying to save some money by buying a couple used armies and then building from there as opposed to building from the ground up.

Here are the two listings (copied and pasted from the ads), I'll be picking them up later today:

Listing 1 - $150
-1 Vampire (Female)
-1 Vampire (Classic Strigoi)
-1 Vampire (Custom converted from Armoured Ghoul on Dire Wolf)
-1 Vampire Levitating/on Hellsteed (Custom from Greenstuff and Bitz)
-1 Wight King w/ Battle Standard (Classic)
-1 Necromancer/Vampire (Classic) on Hellsteed (Fell Bat)
-1 Corpse Cart (Zombie riding Fell Bat pulled by 2 Zombies)
-1 Tomb Banshee (Classic)
-2 Cairn Wraiths (Custom converted from Dwarf Miners)
-3 Spirit Hosts (Custom converted from Dwarf Warriors)
-1 Varghulf
-5 Fell Bats
-35 Grave Guard w/ 2 Full Command Groups (10 Plastic, 25 Classic Metal)
-7 Blood Knights w/ Full Command Group (Custom converted from Classic Ghouls on Dire Wolves)
-30 Skeletons w/ Full Command Group (10 New, 20 Classic)
-70 Zombies w/ 2 Full Command Groups (20 Standing Zombies, 50 Custom Converted to coming out of the ground)


Listing 2 - $120
30 plastic Zombies
60 plastic Skeletons, some broken, sprues available, including command (30 spearmen, 30 swords)
3x Vampire Bats
3x Spirit Hosts
22 metal ghouls
10 plastic dire wolves
Some metal grave guard
Some knights
2 banshees
Misc vampires, mounted and on foot
Misc bits (spirit hosts, vampire bats, sprues)

So in the first listing there's a lot of converted stuff that I probably won't use as he suggests (like the corpse cart and "blood knights") and the wriaths and spirit hosts depending on how good they look. Also they both come with bats so I'll have about 8 bats, although I'm not sure about them because a lot of army lists I looked at on vampirecounts.net don't use them.

SO are these lots worth getting? And if so what should I add to them? Vargheists seem pretty cool. Also a lord on zombie dragon looks badass but I don't know if I can handle that kind of model and whether or not it would be better to stick my lord in a unit.

[Lucas]

I will say not to buy them at all. You need to figure out how you want the army to work and then try to pick things up cheap off ebay and such. Also try to find the path for you. I like to build list that people don't consider effective and win lots haha. But being new I would recommend you fill the core with a mix of skellys with hand weapon and shields (spears are not worth it) and zombies but remember you want to use 40+ skellys and say two units of 30/40+ zombies but they can always get bigger. Go for a vamp lord and a hero lvl vamp to get you going then the special and rare should be what ever catches the eye.

[The-Night_Reaper]

Well I already bought it :s Here's the list I was thinking of running any suggestions? Will this be competitive?

Lords & Heroes - 796pts
Vampire Lord Lvl 2 - 411pts
heavy armour, red fury, quickblood, sword of might, enchanted shield, talisman of protection

Master necromancer lvl 4 - 145pts
dispel scroll, master of the dead

Wight King - 180pts
BSB, banner of the barrows, skeletal steed, barding

Cairn Wraith - 60pts

Core - 775pts
40 zombies - 125pts
standard bearer

30 skeletons - 180pts
full command, spears

30 skeletons -180pts
full command

18 ghouls - 190pts
crypt ghast

5 direwolves w/ doomwolf - 50pts
5 direwolves w/ doomwolf - 50pts

Special - 654pts
30 grave guard - 360pts
full command

5 black knights - 160pts
full command, barding, lances

2 fell bats - 32pts
2 fell bats - 32pts

1 batswarm - 35pts
1 batswarm - 35pts

Rare - 175pts

1 Varghulf - 175pts

[Lucas]

Drop the necromancer and bump up the vamp lord to a lvl 4 and give him a better ward save. Drop the wight king for a hero lvl vamp hero with a dispel scroll, give the banner of the barrows to the unit. Spears on skellys are a bad choice sure they get a few more attacks but S3 WS2 don't scare nobody, the hand weapon/shield means less will die and less will fall apart. 18 ghouls is not worth it just get rid of them. Also full command on a unit of 5 cav is not needed at all. Doom wolfs in the dire wolfs are not needed use the spare points to increase the size of the zombie and skelly units.

[The-Night_Reaper]

how to you give the vamp lord a better ward save? And I actually have about 45 ghoul models should I bump their number? Also Has anyone had experience running 40 or so spear skellies in horde formation?

[Lucas]

You gave him the talisman of protection that is only a 6+ ward, I think you may have wanted the talisman of preservation 4+ ward. A horde of skellys with spears is not a good idea yeah sure you get lots of attacks but they are yet again only WS2 and S 3, not only that but in a horde not only do you get more attacks but any unit bigger than the normal 5 wide is going to get more attacks or even a duel charge. Protection is the name of the game with the skellys, hand weapon/shield for the parry and rank them 5 wide and 8 deep in a unit of 40 and they should hold some ground well. I understand the urge to try and get as much killing power out of the units but with undead core it just isn't worth it. Vamps need Lords/Heroes, special units and rare to kill things. Tomb banshee screams work well in a unit of skellys. 12 Black knights fully kitted out are good as are blender lords and other powerful choices in the army but core are only in the list to meet the minimum pts and tar pit things down so you can deal with the rest of the army.

Say a guy sends in a unit of 4 skull crushes, what do you send to counter them? 30 grave guard or 80+ zombies? The answer should always be the zombies. You then kill the rest of his army off and bring overwhelming force to destroy his most powerful units.

You can also try the ghouls out in a bigger unit, I don't rate them high you can get two skellys or 3 zombies for the cost of one ghoul. I will say they are very good at killing bit units of goblins, state troops, elves, other undead core and anything with low armour. I say give them a try and see if they can work for you.

Hope this helps
Lucas

[The-Night_Reaper]

ya I totally meant talisman of preservation, and I included that item in the points. I was thinking of maybe dropping the grave guard and making the ghouls larger, or dropping the ghouls, I'm not sure but I have all of those models already and painted so I can just play around with it. I just bought a terrorgheist and paint for him this weekend so once I get him all finished up I definitely want to run him in this list. I also want to make the magic phase my b***** so I was thinking maybe make the lord lvl 4, dropping the master necro like you said and get a hero vamp lvl 2 and maybe either a 2nd hero vamp or a necromancer. The guy I bought all of the skeletons off of included the sprues they came on so I can rip their arms off and give them hand weapons pretty easily to make them tougher in combat. Also what is your opinion on vc chaff? I have 7 bat models about 12 wolves, 3 bat swarms and 3 spirit hosts

[Lucas]

best bet are the host. yeah try without the ghouls first and YES terrorgheist are amazing!

[The-Night_Reaper]

Here's an updated list is it competitive?

Lords & Heroes - 823pts
Vampire Lord Lvl 4 - 481pts
heavy armour, red fury, quickblood, sword of might, enchanted shield, talisman of protection
Vampire Lvl 1 - 197pts
heavy armour, quickblood, dreadknight, nightshroud, great weapon
Necromancer w/ lvl 2, dispel scroll, master of the dead - 145pts

Core - 651pts
40 zombies
25 zombies
30 skeletons w/ full command - 180pts
30 skeletons w/ full command -180pts
6 direwolves
6 direwolves

Special - 525pts
30 grave guard w/ full command, great weapons - 390pts
1 spirit host
1 spirit host
1 spirit host

Rare - 400pts
1 Varghulf
1 terrorgheist
total 2399pts

[Lucas]

Looks better. Just a side note you can not give the points cost of a unit bare bones for things like 6 dire wolves, spirit host etc thing that have no upgrades you will have to leave it blank, it is part of the forum rules.