2000 Point Casual Warriors of Chaos List, Nurgle - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    2000 Point Casual Warriors of Chaos List, Nurgle

    Greetings! This is my first time posting on these forums, and I am working on building my first ever Warhammer Fantasy Army.
    I decided on WoC, and have bought a few units, and started painting, and thought I would get some input on my list while I work on building the army.
    I admit my complete noob-ness, and would welcome any input.

    2000 point Warriors of Chaos Nurgle

    LORD 500 points exactly

    Daemon Prince (Army General)
    Mutations and Powers:
    Scaled Skin
    Soul Feeder
    Magic Items:
    Sword of Striking
    DragonHelm
    Upgrades:
    Chaos Armour
    Daemonic Flight
    Daemon of Nurgle
    Level 4 Wizard (Lore of Nurgle)

    Heroes (386 pts)

    1) Festus the Leechlord

    2) Exalted Hero
    Upgrades:
    Battle Standard Bearer
    War Banner
    Mark of Nurgle
    Halberd
    Mutations and Powers:
    Nurgle's Rot

    Core 675 points

    Chaos Warriors x 30
    Full Command
    Banner of Swiftness
    Mark of Nurgle
    Halberds

    Chaos Warhounds x 5

    Chaps Warhounds x 5

    Rare 210 points

    Hellcannon

    Special 228 points

    Chaos trolls x 6
    Additional hand weapons


    Total 1999 points.

    Notes:
    My idea is to put Festus and the Battle Standard Bearer in the chaos warriors unit, to buff it as much as possible (two banners and Festus Buffs), and have the Daemon fly off and do as much damage as possible.

    Does having trolls and a big unit with Festus make me too vulnerable to flaming attacks?
    Is the Daemon as unstoppable as I need him to be?
    Am I screwed without a dispel scroll?
    Should I replace the War Banner on the BsB with something to help him stay alive, and if so, what?
    I'll be playing against a Lizardmen play 90% of the time, anything I should watch for?

    Looking forward to your responses,

    Sphore


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  3. #2
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    1480 (x8)

    Firstly, welcome to the forums, and to the glory that is Warriors of Chaos!
    Secondly? Well, you've picked a heck of a time to start!

    "9th Edition" is literally just weeks away, and all rumors point that it's going to be a huge shakeup of what we're all used to. In fact, they're not even calling it 'Warhammer: Fantasy Battles' anymore! It's now 'Warhammer: Age of Sigmar'. Most rumors are pointing to a more fluid and tactical game, using round bases like 40k, and a bunch of other crazy stuff.
    NOTE however, that none of these rumors are confirmed, because GW are gits like that and haven't actually released anything to us yet. All we've got to base this on are stories like "my cousin from Dublin works in a GW store and said that he saw them offloading an army of pink elephants off their last stock-truck, so I think we should expect a Dumbo-themed army in AoS!" and similar goofy stuff. The most trustworthy sources however, are still pointing to massive changes.

    If you're just now starting your army, trust me, I feel your pain. I'm about $300 in the hole on a Warriors of Chaos 'revamp', having only lately solidified my army list for 8th (after tons of trial, error, and testing) and decided to drop the cash on building a fully converted showcase army. About a month later, AoS rumors start popping up. Now I have no idea how I'll finish the army, since rules or whole units might get the boot.

    If you're in a group that plans to continue playing 8th (several folks around here have voiced that opinion) then I can comment on your list from that standpoint. I guess that's better than nothing, at least. Also, worth pointing out that like you, Lizardmen are my most common enemy as well, owing to my best friend playing the list to a pretty devastating effect!

    Daemon Prince
    This is a pretty standard build for a Prince, so he'll do alright. He's a lot of points in a small game like this though. Most guys who play have since sort of "dropped" the idea of getting a CC character and their Wizard all together in one kit, and have moved from the Daemon Prince back to the more conventional L4 Sorcerer. Problems that you can run into with the Prince usually deal with his Leadership, because he's flying away from your army and can't share his 'Inspiring Presence' with the rest of the guys on the ground. Another issue is that he's a single mode, with -at best- a 4+ Ward.

    Is he as unstoppabe as you expect? Probably not. He's not good for going "solo" into any established combat units. He's a lot better at hunting down Warmachines, tackling lone Characters (rare) or smashing small units of missile-troops until the rest of the army catches up with him. If he's targeted by Magic, it's almost guaranteed to burn your Dispel Dice, because he can't take that many hits.
    Against Lizardmen, there aren't too many targets that he wants to be fighting. More on that later, when we discuss Lizardmen in general.

    Festus
    Not a bad take in any army, but he eats up points in smaller games. WoC is an "elite" army, and as such, needs to keep their characters to a minimum in order to get more "boots on the ground". Festus does do well in large units, so saying that you're paying those points for a regen save isn't bad when you're really only paying about 4-5pts per model benefitting. However, you don't really want a huge unit of Warriors, so...

    Exalted BSB
    Don't give your BSB a magic flag. Focus on defending him, because BSBs are vital. The rerolls on Leadership are extremely important, and in an army where one failed Break or Panic can take several hundred points of models out of the fight, our BSB earns his points back in spades. He's also carrying a great big Bullseye on a stick, and everyone wants him dead.
    You can make a BSB who has the stats of a Chaos Lord, all but. Barded Daemonic Steed puts him at 3W and T5, which is huge. With his basic attacks, WS and Initative, that's "Lord levels" of butt-kicking for most other armies. Top it off with the Mark of Tzeentch and a Talisman of Preservation, and Third Eye, and you've got a guy with a 3+ Ward who rerolls 50% of his failures. It's nasty, and people call it "The Unkillable Build". Personally, I think it's a bit overkill and don't use it in my army, but it's a good trick for newer players, as it allows your BSB to go solo or get himself stuck into some dangerous situations while you're learning the game.

    30 Warriors
    That's a big unit of Warriors. On one hand, it's almost a "Death Star" - something that is very hard to kill, and yes must be killed for your opponent to win the game. On the other hand, you have quite a few Warriors in the back ranks who are just picking their noses. 10-wide with 25mm bases is rather impractical, so don't kid yourself that you're going "Horde" for maximum attacks (you'll hardy ever have all models in base-base).
    I'd shrink this unit down to 18-24, and use the points elsewhere in the list. If you're going to go "foot slogger" and use lots of infantry, then 'downgrading' your Daemon Prince and dropping Festus might actually net you enough points to run two regiments of 24 each, and be a real brute. Otherwise, Chariots are awesome.

    Dogs
    You have them. If you can use them, they're awesome. Learn to use chaff.

    Trolls
    They don't need the AHWs. They only get 3 attacks in the back rank, so it's wasted on half the unit. Otherwise, Trolls are awesome, you'll love them.

    Hell Cannon
    Lots of "meh" on this unit. It's better in combat, but it has a shooting attack and pays for it. The odds of you ever routing anyone with a shot from the gun are pretty slim, but the odds of you routing Lizardmen are astronomical because of their silly leadership shenanigans. I'd ditch this, and get something else. SkullCrushers are one of the best units in the game. Knights are also good, again - Chariots - and really just all sorts of stuff.

    Flaming Attacks?
    The trolls are vulnerable, but the Warriors are okay. Their "regen" is just extra sprinkles on an already solid unit, and with such a big unit, you're not paying that many points per model to include Festus. Flaming Attacks will basically just negate everything in your army, but the Warriors still have plenty of armor - it's the trolls who have to worry.

    No Dispel Scroll?
    Not really. I don't use one, and people sort of shrug at me. My thoughts are that if a spell is important enough to burn the points cost on using a scroll, your opponent will just 6-dice it and hope for Irresistible Force (can't dispel at all, with/without scroll). So what you're really hoping for is that he does that and only rolls one 6 and a whole bunch of 5s or something that make it too hard for you to dispel (once 6-diced a spell, roll four 1's, a 2, and a 4. mate got rid of it with 3D6)

    Beating Lizards
    The hardest part about Lizardmen is that they're a serious "sleeper" of an army. They are less expensive than Chaos Warriors, but they've got Chaos Warrior stats everywhere it matters. They dump off our WS and Initiative. Against most people, the WS is no problem, and Initiative isn't as big a deal anymore. So really, if you've got 30 Chaos Warriors, he's hitting the table with 40+ Saurus Warriors.
    They also have things we don't have: shooting units and effective "horde-y stuff" like the Skinks. Skinks+Kroxigors is just unfair and mean-spirited, because you get the massive amount of tarpit wounds from the Skinks, and the hitting power of Kroxigors attacking from the middle.
    Understand that every fight with Lizardmen is a "grinder", because they simply will not break. They roll 3D6 for Leadership and choose the lowest two.

    When I fight them, I normally expect a draw, since the armies are so evenly matched. If you are playing with just this one other friend, that's good, because it means that your battles won't turn into an "arm's race" to buy the better army. You'll always have a fair shot at winning, and nobody will get 'steam rolled'.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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    114 (x4)

    Looks like Captain said most of what I would say, but just one thing to add: who babysits the Trolls?

    If your DP (general) will be flying off then they are likely to be taking stupidity checks on their basic Ld (4 or 5, I forget). Even if you can keep them in range of the BSB with the warriors that could be a problem.

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    Gah! Thanks for input. Although part of me was hoping I would be declared king for having the perfect list, I'll take this in to consideration and put my second draft into this post. Your notes all made sense to me, including the troll stupidity problem, but are you sure the Hellcannon isn't a good choice? I admit, I have no experience playing, but are its ranged capabilities really that bad? They seem powerful, is it just weak compared to "siege engines" from other armies? Is it too expensive? Or does a good Warriors of Chaos army just not need to shoot?

    Curious!

    -Sphore

  7. #5
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    1480 (x8)

    The thing about siege engines from other armies is that they can usually run a very defensive list to maximize the shooting, or those warmachines are good at bringing down the types of opponents that they don't want to fight. I use about 50% of all the armies in the game to some extent, my friend (the Lizardmen guy) has most of the other half. Between us, the only armies we don't run are Beastmen and Skaven.

    When I use my Empire army, I have two cannons. I also have 20 Outriders, 20 Handgunners, and 13 Bowmen. The only thing in my army that can't shoot you, is the big f-off block of Knights with my characters in it. That list can - at optimal range - let rip with 80 S4 Ap shots, 13 S3 shots, and 2 cannons. That list isn't even considered a proper "gun line," because I could easily fit more shooting into it, if I shrank/swapped the Knights and dropped the STanks for regular artillery and slimmed down my character choices. If you don't charge my list quickly, I'm going to obliterate your army in the ranged phases.
    Granted, that's at 2500pts, but to get it down to 2k all I really have to do is knock out the STanks.

    On the other hand, you have lists like my friend's Daemons, or my Brets. Both are definitely melee armies, but my friend's Daemon list packs along a SkullCannon. Why? Because it can kill monsters like nobody's business, and that's something that his list would struggle with otherwise. I run Trebuchets in my Brets because they're the best "lobba" type weapon in the game, and they can really thin out the big, ranked units that my Knights have trouble breaking on the charge.

    The Hellcannon is very pricey, for starters. It pays for a split profile - it's not just a cannon, it's also a pretty gnarly monster in CC. The problem? You only get to use one function at a time. If you're in CC, you're not taking those cannon shots, and if you're firing the gun, you're obviously not getting your attacks and stomps. Sure, splitting it up so that you have a cannon and a monster would make taking both in the same list cost more, but individually you could grab a cannon for maybe 150pts and the monster for another 150pts.
    The second problem with the cannon is that our army doesn't support it that well. We don't have any extra "leadership games" beyond the regular "Lore of Death" that most folks have. We also don't have much shooting. Our army needs to get in close with the enemy, because my Handgunners will gladly make their points back by simply ripping into your Chaos Warriors for an extra turn while your Cannon says "Wait, let me get another shot off before you guys charge in!"
    Lastly, the cannon doesn't mesh with our army either. If it were a "straight cannon" that fired like a cannon instead of a Stone Thrower, we'd be in business, because Chaos Warriors hate big monsters just as much as the next guy. However, one thing that Chaos Warriors don't need, is the ability to thin out enemy regiments. Brets can get two of their Trebuchets for a little over half what our cannon costs, and use that to dump 2 S5 templates onto the enemy. Our cannon gets one shot/drop, and can't thin down something like 60 Clan Rats as quickly.
    With Warriors, a "tarpit" is a tarpit. If we get sucked into that fight, we're gonna be there for a while. I actually don't mind this if my opponent doesn't have some kind of "hammer" unit waiting in the wings to flank the ongoing fight, and if I've got enough other stuff in my list to get into combat with his more valuable targets.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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