[p0lak]

Well i played in my group 2 games with a similar list and won 2 out of 2 games. I played tau which i massacred and played elder which i massacred(i had like 1 -2 models of all y core left so it was really close.Also got reall lucky as i gave karandras 4 saves and he got 4 ones XD.) So here it is. My lords stay in the big squads and jump out when its time

The list i used was as followed

Lord
demon wepon, mark of tz, wings X2

10 chosen
4 dual claws, captain, mark

13 thousand sons
tz spell, icon X2

greater demon

This is what i think is better but i will lead it up to you chaos gods for help

Chaos lord 180
Disc of tz , mark of tz , demon wepon, personel icon
Chaos lord 180
Disc of tz , mark of tz , demon wepon, personel icon
13 thousand sons 329
Bolt of change,icon
13 thousand sons 329
Bolt of change,icon
6 sons 163
Bolt of change,
6 sons 163
Bolt of change,
Greater demon 100
5 lesser demons

 

[EmoJosh]

I'm not sure how this list beat anyone. You have no transports, no anti-heavy armor except a GD getting into CC, nothing to hide your Lords from getting owned by any gunfire and you're dropping vulnerable Lesser Demons into the middle of a battlefield to get killed.

Both lists are pretty bad. You need Rhinos to protect your Marines and to screen your Lords, they also deliver your Demons faster. After that you probably need some Meltaguns to deal with big tanks.

 

[p0lak]

Just to tell you thousand sons don't need to kill big tanks, they can survive. Also to win i wouldnt say you need mec, Sure i lack Anti tank but i can handle any situations. My GD can come out from my lord and kill a tank and my lords can hide in the big squads. Does everyone need to make a standard mec army to make it win, no it helps noobs or people who arnt so great but having 8 years of gaming and 12 local tourney won i can say i can win games through tactics and movements. I wanted to try something new as it boring as hell to play the same nurgle spam and rhino that everyone uses. I tried anf found a good and FUN way to win, also it gives me a challenge. I see how mec are good but you dont always need to go that root. To be honest i usually ignore tanks as they dont ever do much to me as i avoid or get cover saves.Lastly demons are to grab a objective last minute.

 

[EmoJosh]

That's fine, you can think what you think. Mech isn't for "noobs" (seriously? This isn't an FPS) it's for veteran players and much harder to play than all infantry.

You certainly can survive a Battle Cannon and the like. You save degrades to what most Marines would get from cover anyways but sure. Your problem is advancing into hails of small to medium arms fire. Most good armies will drive circles around you and pick you apart, or just pick you apart on foot.

Just because something works in your shop doesn't mean it's good. Feel free to stick to your plans and win the games you're already playing but it doesn't make the list any better.

I know Demons grab objectives, they're even better when they can assault off close range.....from a transport. Since you don't want to run any I have no further advice for this army list.

 

[p0lak]

might i add that with this list i can easily shoot down transports so no the enemy wont be driving circles around me(4 str 8 ap 1 shots a turn is enough to kill most transports in my opinion)

 

[EmoJosh]

After BS Tests, Penetration Tests and Damage Rolls, it's not. At least give the Chosen some Meltas if nothing else.

 

[p0lak]

Do the math, 3 will hit, 2.6 will pen(transports) and 1.8 will destroy. This is average and you can get more or less. So i can kill basically 2 transports a turn which is more then enough. I will play further tests and list will probably see some changes.

 

[EmoJosh]

Last I check transports had variable armor, cover and other random rules. Math is useless for the most part unless you do an equation for every situation, it's a game to game situation. If someone runs unsmoked Rhinos into the open, yeah you may be okay.

 

[flemingm]

OK, just chiming into the stats battle, but if you are worried about tanks and you already have a daemon prince model, why not do this for your command:

Daemon Prince, Mark of Tzeentch (for fluff), Wings (optional), Bolt of change, warptime (optional). Considering that this guy, if you use all of his psychic powers and wings, if a flying monstrosity with a 4+ invulnerable save, who can easily get into the rear of vehicles (wings) and can launch a str 8 AP 1 attack into its rear with re-rolls to hit and wound, and then charge into the vehicle with 5 str 6 monstrous attacks (2D6 APV) rerolling fails to hit and wound. He's about as expensive as your lord on disk, but I'm not allowed to say.

I would also reccomend a vindicator with daemonic possession or some oblitorators, as after they have used their lascannons to demolish enemy tanks, they can use plasma cannons to decimate troops that would give your tzeentch troops hell in combat, seeing as tzeentch aren't great in combat. They also give you some much needed templates against hoarde armies like orcs, where your AP3 bolters are pretty much just for show, and you will get outnumbered in combat because you simply don't have enough bolter shots. That and vindicators have a strength 10 shot for those land raiders. Considering the size of land raiders and your balistic skill, the shot won't scatter iff the land raider so you will almost always hit the vehicle with the centre of the template.

Why not take wind of change on some of your sorcerors as well, as I see you would be very vulnerable to orcs without dedicated close combat units and minimal template weapons. Its great to have bolt of change, but consider its range, and chance of failure, however minimal. Wind of change is a garunteed hit, wounding absolutely anything on a 4+ or glancing vehicles, and ignoring armour.

Also, what is the point of the 5 lesser daemons? They won't make much of a difference in combat and you don't need theim as a shield as you already have a 5+ invulnerable save. I just don't see any application to them.

You could take raptors with a power fist and 2 meltaguns if your so obsessed with str 8 ap 1 weapons, as they would easily get into the rear of tanks, and will assist your tzeentch guys in combat as well, all for approximately 290 points.

Prince has a point when he says your army won't win the way it is without some key units.

BTW, Prince, you really killed the nightbringer with Mabo. Lol, how did your opponent feel?

 

[Red Archer]

Do the math, 3 will hit, 2.6 will pen(transports) and 1.8 will destroy. This is average and you can get more or less. So i can kill basically 2 transports a turn which is more then enough. I will play further tests and list will probably see some changes.

Could you explain this math to me?
4 bolts of change. You have to pass your psychic test. Then you have to hit with the aspiring sorcerer's BS. Then you have to penetrate. [Then the opponent has to fail his cover save.] Then you have to destroy. Assuming AV11 for enemy transports (a good number are AV12, actually, so in reality it will often be much worse), this is what my numbers say:

4 (number of bolts) * 11/12 (to pass psychic test) * 2/3 (to hit) * 1/2 (to penetrate AV11) * 1/2 (to destroy or explode with AP1) = .61... With cover saves you can halve that [.31]. Good luck killing vehicles!
If there's a psychic hood you can reduce that by another 42%, so effectively halve it again. Eldar runes of warding will hurt you just as much. And don't forget that your bolts only have 6"+24" maximum range!


I'd just use my mobility to stay further than 24" from your force and use my long-range guns to blast it apart. That list seriously needs more speed and key units.

 

[EmoJosh]

Hurray for math support, I was tired of arguing the obvious. :]