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Dark Eldar Army: 1,500pts

Uminekh’s Cosairs - Kabal of the Twisted Breath


HQ

Archon of the Twisted Breath: Reaver Jetbike, Hellmask, Shadow Field, Combat Drugs, Tormentor Helm, Power Weapon, Animus Vitae, Gruesome Talisman [187pts]

ELITE

Wych Squad from the Cult of the Chained Wyrms: 8 Wyches w/Splinter Pistol, Wych Weapons, 2x Blaster. Succubus with Trophy Rack, Agoniser [225pts]
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Raider with Night Shield

Beast Pack from the Cult of the Chained Wyrms [75pts]

TROOPS

Twisted Breath Warrior Squad 1 of 10 Warriors w2x Dark Lance [100pts]
Twisted Breath Warrior Squad 2 of 10 Warriors w2x Dark Lance [100pts]

Twisted Breath Warrior Squad 3 of 14 Warriors: 2x Blaster, 2x Splinter Cannon, Sybarite with Splinter Pistol & Agoniser [178pts]

Twisted Breath Warrior Squad 4 of 12 Warriors: 2x Blaster, 2x Splinter Cannon, Sybarite with Splinter Pistol & Poisoned Blades [137pts]

FAST

Wych Jetbike Squad from the Cult of the Chained Wyrms: 6 Reavers, 2x Blaster. Succubus with Goblet of Spite, Hellmask, Tormentor Helm and Power Weapon [216pts]

HEAVY

Twisted Breath Ravager with 3x Disintegrators [140pts]
Twisted Breath Ravager with 3x Disintegrators [140pts]

1,500pts


The Archon’s Gruesome Talisman was bought because I had 2pts left to spend. Having said that, it could come in useful.

I debated between a Reaver Lord or Lord with small Incubi retinue in Raider. The deciding factor was the Reaver Lord’s ability to move quickly round the table, supporting any of my units. He likes to ‘reach out and touch people’.

Please don’t tell me to lose the Night Shields. I find them incredibly good value, and always use them in 40k games (but not so much in Apocalypse).

Although Hellmasks are not much use against very high Ld opponents, they are very useful against many enemies (% chance to fail Ld9 = 16.66%, Ld8 = 27.77%, Ld7 = 44.44%).

The Goblet of Spite is a must for a Reaver squad who will Assault, especially helping the Succubus to land a few decent hits.

As ever, I welcome comment and criticism for the list.

Lord Ramon
 

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I really like this list. You can only have 1 Hellmask though in the army.

Are you using your Lord in conjunction with the Reavers or having him run around and assaulting whatever you Warriors/Wyches ran into?

I dont use Night Shields that often in any build I have looked at, but if they are successful for you then by all means. I also have rarely used Warp Beasts but it seems that alot of folks do so I need to look into that.

What tourny are you looking into entering?
 

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No problem having more than one hell mask though there is another problem with this setting if im not wrong, but that'll be apparent after Lord Ramon rereads his dear codex.

My opinionis or corrections in this case

1. Your Archon is illegal.

2. Reread the information about tormentor helm and goblet of spite does, and then please reply if you still actually think its worth having those, because then I will tell you why they are useless.

3. Raiders are doomed to crash, and just think about it, you are trying to deploy a CC unit into enemy territory how much do you think 6" will help against the anti veh. weapons. - Put those on the ravagers, simply said, why trying to protect a 55 point vehicle when you have 140 point vehicle that can actually use those 6" against the anti vehicle weapons.

4. Don't really know about the beast pack try to avoid them when not doing a WWP army, but thats perfectly up to you, if you have the confidence to get them to CC unharmed.
 

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1. Your Archon is illegal.
Archon illegal because it has more then 100pts of wargear on it.

2. Reread the information about tormentor helm and goblet of spite does, and then please reply if you still actually think its worth having those, because then I will tell you why they are useless.
I'm curious about you opinion.
 

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i dont like the wych blasters they probably wont get a chance to shoot em.
im not a fan of goblet of spites or night shields.
6" doesnt do much.
Archons illegal.
i like warpbeasts ill pay 75 points even though they probably wont do much, but usually theres other things my opponent could be shooting at.
 

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2. Reread the information about tormentor helm and goblet of spite does, and then please reply if you still actually think its worth having those, because then I will tell you why they are useless.

I'd like to know as well. I understand why the goblet is bad (since more attacks hitting + more attacks hitting you balances out but not for its point cost) but not the helm. The helm is quite good and it is the only way for a jetbike to get an additional close combat attack.
 

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The goblet is horrible because not only do YOU hit on X+'s, but so do the enemy!!

Given that you probably won't kill all of whatever it was you assaulted, the goblet is a bad idea, as most people can only hit wyches on 4's or worse.

It has it's uses when combined with haywire grenades for attacking monoliths, but that's it :/
 

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Now I'm becoming unsure about the hell mask tormentor helm problem, as nobody else seems to find any problem with it. I have read somewhere, can't find it now (perfect), and maybe I'm thinking about some other army. So it has becomed a question to myself: can you have both hell mask and tormentor helm on the same character, it just sounds wierd to me as they are both headgear, Bah! I don't know anymore.
 

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Now I'm becoming unsure about the hell mask tormentor helm problem, as nobody else seems to find any problem with it. I have read somewhere, can't find it now (perfect), and maybe I'm thinking about some other army. So it has becomed a question to myself: can you have both hell mask and tormentor helm on the same character, it just sounds wierd to me as they are both headgear, Bah! I don't know anymore.

It is a bit weird, but perfectly legal. The ones you can't have at the same time are the Hell Mask, Mask of the Damned, and Vexantrope since they are all masks. I'm thinking the helm is just an open faced helm if you want a fluff reason why its ok.
 

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Okay sorry, my mistake. I was confusing the masks with the punisher helm, never really use masks but I guess that doesnt make a good excuse anyways, would like to see a revised list Lord Ramon, taking in consideration from what everyone has said, except for the masks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Firstly, thanks for all the feedback, and pointing out my dumb error with the Archon.

I’ll answer the posed ? in the order they came:


). The Lord can work with the Reavers, however my overall intention is that he is free to help the Wyches, and either of the larger mobile Warrior squads too. I have found that ‘flying’ HQs are really very flexible, and use them in most of my armies now.


). Tormentor Helm: I’ve always viewed this as a must have item for a Reaver pilot or anyone with TH-weapons, so I’d be interested to hear your logics Shadowelf.


). Goblet of Spite: Firstly a few statements –

- Most of the time I find that I end up attacking BS4 units with my Reavers. Most of my opponents locally play MEQs.

- My Reavers almost always have better Initiative than the enemy unit. If the enemy unit has I6 I’d think hard about attacking with the Reavers.

- My Reavers will not usually be attacking enemy with many attacks, i.e. normally only against enemies with A1, where most of their unit does not have extra weapons. This makes new Chaos marines are a real drag now!

- I’d need a very good reason to attack an enemy unit with Power weaponry, and would normally only do so in combination with a HQ or with the Wyches.

- At 1,500pts, it’s quite likely that my Reavers will be operating on their at least 50% of the time.

- Again I’d need a damn good reason to attack MEQ units of more than 8, or S3 units of more than 10.

- Enemies with BS5+ hits the Reavers on 3+ anyway. This applies to most HQs, and nasty guys like Exarchs.

- Barring the Succubus (with a Tormentor), Reavers have a very low number of Attacks.

Now my reasoning for the Goblet:

- Because of their low number of attacks, it’s very unlikely that I will be attacking specialist cc units. As long as I have initiative, I want to kill as many enemies as possible, before they get to strike back. Against MEQs (my most likely opponents), I usually kill 2x MEQs or 3x S3 4+ to my shooting from the Blasters and Splinters before I assault.

The Succubus (with a Tormentor/Agonsier) has 4 attacks, and on average will kill 1.33 enemies. The rest of the unit will, on average, kill: 1.1x MEQs or 2x (S3, 4+. Eldar for example). So including the shooting, it’s likely I’ll kill 2 (shooting) + 1.33 (Succucbus) + 1-2 (Reavers) = 4-5 enemies; leaving 1-3 MEQs or 1-4 non-MEQs.

An enemy Sarge/Champion with a Power Weapon will (on average) get 2 hits on me, wound once, killing 1 Reaver. 2x normal MEQs will kill 0.33 Reavers. Even with 3+ to hit, S3 enemies will not do me too much damage: an S3 Power Weapon with a character is likely to kill 0.66 Reavers, and 4 other enemies hitting once at S3 will kill around 0.8 Reavers.

- So against enemies with Power weapons, Assaulting them with help is a gamble. Even without the Goblet, Assaulting them is still a gamble. Against non-Power weapon enemies, the Goblet serves me well, allowing me to kill enough enemies to make the attack worth while.

- I don’t think Reavers are suited to long protracted combats because of their lack of multiple Attacks. So for me, the Goblet helps getting an early decision.

- An important downside, is that enemies will hit HQs on 3+, so if I have Goblet, the Reavers often operate independently. Having said that, in situation where an Archon + Reavers are very likely to annihilate an enemy in cc, and be able to Consolidate straight in another, or into cover or limited line-of-sight, I’m happy to combine attacks.

- The same logic applies to Reavers (Goblet) + Wyches. Wyches certainly do not need enemies hitting them more easily, so both units can only work together in specific situations.

So why does this make any sense for tournaments. Simply I find that on a 6’ x 4’ table, with only 1,500pts, I will not be making zillions of combined attacks, and my Reavers need to be mainly sniping at vehicles and assaulting Havocs, Devastators etc.


). Nightshields: these upgrades allow me extra flexibility of movement in round 1. Yes, of course, Raiders need to be out of line-of-sight, but on some tables, especially with fast moving enemies, that just isn’t possible. On many occasions, my Night Shields have protected especially from 24” ranged weapons (Shuriken Cannon, Multi-Melta, Assault Cannon, Plasmagun, Deathspitter etc). I have played quite a few games, where some of Raiders survive the whole game, and the Nightshields are a massive contributor to that.

If I had the points, I would certainly put Night Shields on my Ravagers.


). Most of my opponents tend to underestimate the Beast Pack. The rest blast away at it whenever they can. Fleet and the speed of the Beast charge makes them so useful. I often find that I can move them forward, behind cover for a round or two, then assault from this cover. I’ve found that having a 19-24” Assault move does allow them to be fielded without a WWP.

All round they make great (cheap) support for any of cc units, and for large Warrior squads heading towards objectives.


). Wych Blasters: for their cheap cost, I find them well worth having. They add to the tactical flexibility of my Wyches. Of course, they are useless if the Wyches need to Fleet. At 1,500pts I have found they useful. At 2,000pts I’ll often not take them.


Revised List

HQ

Archon of the Twisted Breath: Reaver Jetbike, Hellmask, Shadow Field, Tormentor Helm, Agoniser [160pts]

ELITE

Wych Squad from the Cult of the Chained Wyrms: 8 Wyches w/Splinter Pistol, Wych Weapons, 2x Blaster. Succubus with Trophy Rack, Agoniser [225pts]
+
Raider with Night Shield

Beast Pack from the Cult of the Chained Wyrms [75pts]

TROOPS

Twisted Breath Warrior Squad 1 of 10 Warriors w2x Dark Lance [100pts]
Twisted Breath Warrior Squad 2 of 10 Warriors w2x Dark Lance [100pts]

Twisted Breath Warrior Squad 3 of 14 Warriors: 2x Blaster, 2x Splinter Cannon, Sybarite with Splinter Pistol & Agoniser [168pts]
Twisted Breath Warrior Squad 4 of 15 Warriors: 2x Blaster, 2x Splinter Cannon, Sybarite with Splinter Pistol & Agoniser [176pts]

FAST

Wych Jetbike Squad from the Cult of the Chained Wyrms: 6 Reavers, 2x Blaster. Succubus with Goblet of Spite, Hellmask, Tormentor Helm and Power Weapon [216pts]

HEAVY

Twisted Breath Ravager with 3x Disintegrators [140pts]
Twisted Breath Ravager with 3x Disintegrators [140pts]

1,500pts

Lord Ramon

Should I lose 5x Warriors to put Night Shields on the Ravagers?
 

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Seems decent but goblet of spite sucks, ditch it for plasma nades on the sybarites for the warriors they all get the bonus for it though some may argue with you the rules are quite clear, but if you really want to keep it.
I assume your archon is going monstrous creature hunting or heavy weapon squads.
I think your only allowed 1 hellmask per army but i forget whether its in with the arcane wargear(or should i say crappy overpriced wargear).
Imo wych blasters are worthless and your ravagers would benefit better from horrofex nades(its fun using these verses tau and can take a whole turn of shooting off of something).
 
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