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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First draft list of what are tentatively named the Cadian 303rd. I have mostly done away with armour, rellying on numbers and a few AT weapons.

Command Platoon HQ 434pts

Command Squad 209pts

Heroic Senior Officer and 4 Guardsmen
HSO with Power Sword

Guardsmen Upgrades; Plasma Gun
Master Vox
Medic
Standard Bearer
Sanctioned Psyker
Commissar with Power Fist and Power Weapon

Fire Support Squad 95pts
3 Autocannons

Special Weapons Support Squad 65pts
2 Snipers
1 Demolition Charge

Special Weapons Support Squad 65pts
2 Snipers
1 Demolition Charge

Storm Troopers Elite 130pts
10 Storm Troopers with Meltagun and Plasma gun

Infiltrate Special Rule

Infantry Platoon Troops 485pts

Command Squad 149pts

Junior Officer and 4 Guardsmen
Power Fist
Bolt Pistol

Guardsmen Upgrades; Missile Launcher
Meltagun
Vox Caster

Sanctioned Psyker
Commissar with Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol

Infantry Squad 83pts
10 Guardsmen
Grenade Launcher
Vox Caster
Frag Grenades

Infantry Squad 83pts
10 Guardsmen
Grenade Launcher
Vox Caster
Frag Grenades

Infantry Squad 85pts
10 Guardsmen
Heavy Bolter Team
Plasma Gun
Vox Caster

Infantry Squad 85pts
10 Guardsmen
Heavy Bolter Team
Plasma Gun
Vox Caster

Infantry Platoon Troops 171pts

Armoured Fist Squad 171pts
10 Guardsmen
Flamer
Vox Caster
Frag Grenades

Chimera APC
Heavy Flamer
Heavy Bolter
Rough Terrain Modification

Hell Hound Fast Attack 125pts
Rough Terrain Modification
Extra Armour


Sentinel Squadron Fast Attack 150pts
3 Sentinels
3 Autocannons

Total Points: 1,495pts

Models: 92
Vehicles: 5
 

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Seems ok, though deep striking stormtroopers would be better as it gives more flexibility. No doctrines? They are what makes the guard win battles. Your special weapons squads' configuartion is weird. Why equip sniper rifles with a unit that has a demo charge? You have to run to the enemy with a demo charge, and without drop troops, I would say it is useless. Drop the special weapons teams and sentinels. Add some doctrines. I suggest close order drill, cameleoline, and Iron Discipline. Take away your HSO, for a JO with the Honorfica Imperialis, it saves 5 points, and they then have the same profile. No leman russes? good. I lost faith in them along time ago. Bring some bassies. Since it is "cityfight", try including a demolisher. You wont be disappointed. A vox netwok is kind of expensive, so I suggest just using Close Order Drill. What you need most of all is for somone like Commisarlestat or a rare appearance of Triumph to disect your army pieceby piece, as I don't have time on my hands. No armour(tanks) is a bad thing. Add some.

Hope I helped,

Imperator
 

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Hmm just some initial thoughts, no doubt others will have better ones :)

You say you're relying on numbers - so here goes.

Command Squad 209pts

Heroic Senior Officer and 4 Guardsmen
HSO with Power Sword

Guardsmen Upgrades; Plasma Gun
Master Vox
Medic
Standard Bearer
Sanctioned Psyker
Commissar with Power Fist and Power Weapon
OK if you're taking a Vox-Net the Colonel needs to be under a rock somewhere, not risking HtH combat so drop the plasma, the standard, the psyker, the commissar. Keep the medic if you like for "fluff" and you could drop the HSO to a JO with HI - but personally I think that's bit "off".

Alternatively drop the vox-net, consider bionics for the colonel and something for the psyker etc. just remember how ever much you "tool up" the command squad - they're still only human at the end of it.

Fire Support Squad 95pts
3 Autocannons

Special Weapons Support Squad 65pts
2 Snipers
1 Demolition Charge

Special Weapons Support Squad 65pts
2 Snipers
1 Demolition Charge
Fire support is ok - ranges are less in Cityfight - so consider Heavy Bolters and sharpshooters, and get 2 squads if possible now you've saved points on the HQ.

Special weapons - as Imperator says - these make no sense - either shoot or assault. If you want snipers consider ratlings - you can always use cadian or catachan figures as stand-ins. Consider 3 x flamers per squad - good for rooting stuff out and don't suffer from BS3.

Storm Troopers Elite 130pts
10 Storm Troopers with Meltagun and Plasma gun

Infiltrate Special Rule
Consider smaller squad size - even better go for vets as a doctrine and take two squads of 5 with 3 meltas, that will riun someone's armour nicely.

Infantry Platoon Troops 485pts

Command Squad 149pts

Junior Officer and 4 Guardsmen
Power Fist
Bolt Pistol

Guardsmen Upgrades; Missile Launcher
Meltagun
Vox Caster

Sanctioned Psyker
Commissar with Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol

Infantry Squad 83pts
10 Guardsmen
Grenade Launcher
Vox Caster
Frag Grenades

Infantry Squad 83pts
10 Guardsmen
Grenade Launcher
Vox Caster
Frag Grenades

Infantry Squad 85pts
10 Guardsmen
Heavy Bolter Team
Plasma Gun
Vox Caster

Infantry Squad 85pts
10 Guardsmen
Heavy Bolter Team
Plasma Gun
Vox Caster
OK Platoon HQ - drop the power fist - just a power sword will do, M/L is good, consider breaking one "big" platoon down into two smaller ones i.e. command and two squads to help spread the Ld bubbles - and get Iron Discipline for army & platoon HQs. Do this by dropping the psyker and commissar.

IMO line squads should always take both a heavy and special weapon, the guardsmen are really just ablative wounds for the kit. If you've taken M/L in the platoon HQs and 2 x fire support squads of bolters, consider 1 x L/C and 1 x A/C in each platoon. Plasma is good, although personally I prefer G/L as I don't like blowing myself up!


Infantry Platoon Troops 171pts

Armoured Fist Squad 171pts
10 Guardsmen
Flamer
Vox Caster
Frag Grenades

Chimera APC
Heavy Flamer
Heavy Bolter
Rough Terrain Modification
OK if you're doing the flaming chimera of doom swap Hull H/B for flamer, I'd drop the frags and get the squad a Heavy weapon - maybe Autocannon or Heavy Bolter - much more useful

Hell Hound Fast Attack 125pts
Rough Terrain Modification
Extra Armour


Sentinel Squadron Fast Attack 150pts
3 Sentinels
3 Autocannons
Hell Hounds are great, sentinels are vulnerable, they really need to use ranged weapons, I'd drop them and get a second HellHound. If you've got the points put pintle stubbers on both.

Just a few observations anyway, not necessarily all good ones I suspect - make sure you check what others think :)
 
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What i'd do (and Why)

What I'd Do (and Why):

Command Platoon HQ 434pts

Command Squad 209pts

Heroic Senior Officer and 4 Guardsmen
HSO with Power Sword

Guardsmen Upgrades; Plasma Gun
Master Vox
Medic
Standard Bearer
Sanctioned Psyker
Commissar with Power Fist and Power Weapon

- He is your LD 10 master vox, with a comissar sat next to him. He is also a 6 man T3 squad to attact every piece of fire on the table at every oppertunity, at quite some cost.
drop the plasma gun, medic, standard bearer and (sacrilidge - I hear you scream) remove power fist on the commissar. Continue reading and i'll give you a H2H command squad later. That saves 54+standard?? points. (standards don't go down a vox anyway.)

Fire Support Squad 95pts
3 Autocannons
In cityfight previous advice was correct - go for Heavy bolters - more shots for your BS3 troopers, saving 15 points to boot.

Special Weapons Support Squad 65pts
2 Snipers
1 Demolition Charge
I appreciate and like the idea. It humours me, but remove the sniper rifle, replace with flamers.
Your special weapon squads are to do close range carnage. Read hide then fire, and if it ain't dead they probrably are. Meh, you have more. Bank 2 points.

Special Weapons Support Squad 65pts
2 Snipers
1 Demolition Charge
Ditto. save 2 points

Storm Troopers Elite 130pts
10 Storm Troopers with Meltagun and Plasma gun
Infiltrate Special Rule


"Ahem" - Trot down to your nearest GW and buy a sergeant. I know, "Ah-overpriced-choo" Make 2x 6 man squads. get extra special weapons if you can, or if not make up the 6th man on your second squad with the flamer. (pair with melta) - plus 22 points

Then break open your penny jar and buy ratlings. start with three if you have to - Note Infiltrate does NOT mean you have to be closer to the enemy. - plus 33 points


Infantry Platoon Troops 485pts

Command Squad 149pts

Junior Officer and 4 Guardsmen
Power Fist
Bolt Pistol

Honarifica Imperialis and power sword instead of fist. The idea is to get many power weapon attacks in to start trimming them down first, and a fist will come later (pointy hat) Frag Grenades, and maybe a flamer. I don't approve of, but I do see what you like and are trying to do, so here it is. plus 21 points

Guardsmen Upgrades; Missile Launcher
Meltagun
Vox Caster

No, drop Missile Launcher. These stay out of any line of sight, until they charge. - save 15.

Sanctioned Psyker

Oh for goodness sake. if you have to.



Commissar with Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol

ok, this is where to put the fist, (instead of sword) and carapace armour. (everyone gets to hit him first) If you feel generous. plus 15 points

Infantry Squad 83pts
10 Guardsmen
Grenade Launcher
Vox Caster
Frag Grenades

I abhor Frag grenades on guardsmen, but ok, just on this squad.

Infantry Squad 83pts
10 Guardsmen
Grenade Launcher
Vox Caster
Frag Grenades

drop frags, add above missile launcher - plus 5

Infantry Squad 85pts
10 Guardsmen
Heavy Bolter Team
Plasma Gun
Vox Caster

Infantry Squad 85pts
10 Guardsmen
Heavy Bolter Team
Plasma Gun
Vox Caster

Infantry Platoon Troops 171pts

Armoured Fist Squad 171pts
10 Guardsmen
Flamer
Vox Caster
Frag Grenades

Chimera APC
Heavy Flamer
Heavy Bolter
Rough Terrain Modification

Remove the frag grenades. No, really in what circumstance are your 10 Guardsmen going to charge instead of firing their rapid fire lasguns? I hope you equipped your sergeant correctly. (Read lasgun) Get to an objective and decamp. Shoot things. - saving 10 points

Hell Hound Fast Attack 125pts
Rough Terrain Modification
Extra Armour

I don't like the extra armour, but i'll leave it.

Sentinel Squadron Fast Attack 150pts
3 Sentinels
3 Autocannons

Split into 1x squad 2 sentinals, and 1x Squad 1 sentinal. What happens if 1 gets immobelised? What happens if your three large discs can't all see the same target? Is it cramped ? Is it cityfight? Why don't you like multiple scoring units?

Total Points: 1,495pts

20 points leftover from change, add the 5 you have leftover originally = 25 to buy 2 special weapons for the stormtroopers if you have them, Carapace armour for your HI officer (more survivable esp. in melee)or frag grenades for line troopers (why? why? just make an entire squad surveyors if you want to throw points away).

Models: 92
Vehicles: 5[/quote]
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wow some good advice folks.

One point I will ask is that I am not a fan of Ab-humans in my list, can't I keep the Cadian snipers, at least in one squad?
 

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Wow some good advice folks.

One point I will ask is that I am not a fan of Ab-humans in my list, can't I keep the Cadian snipers, at least in one squad?
Absolutely, just take one of the special squads as all sniper rifles.

Personally I think the IG rules for snipers are a bit busted one way or another - compare IG Codex with Catachan Codex in the treatment of snipers.

I mean I don't know what the answer actually IS!, I just think there has to be a better one than having to take 6 man squads ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I agree on that the other three men are pretty pointless in that set up, either six snipers or a reduced point squad of three snipers makes more sense. Be nice to use them individually like Vindicare snipers, not that GW will let that happen but it would be more realistic.

The demo charge I was probably linking with the demolishion startegy rule in the City Fight rules, seems a useful tool for IG especially against a super baddy like a Daemon Prince.
 

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abhumans

Wow some good advice folks.

One point I will ask is that I am not a fan of Ab-humans in my list, can't I keep the Cadian snipers, at least in one squad?
You can ask your opponent if you can use your cadian snipers as ratlings, he may say yes.
 

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You're right. It is't able to travel down a vox-network. You CAN however get leadership 10 if you have an HSO nearby a squad with COD. @ the army list, you need more:
- plasma guns (how else can you take down carnifexes, terminators, and big bad evil guard crunching monsters with ease?
- heavy bolters
- autocannons

And @ the snipers, they are not worth it. Never. Buy something nicer, and consider doctrines like cameloline!!!! My army is invincible against tau. They can't kill my infantry-heavy army when they have to kill 130 odd men with 3+ cover saves 8Y.
 

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I'm not sure

I don't think that is the case either. I am pretty sure that CoD only applies to tests where the unit uses its own leadership. In fact I don't just think it. I know it says that in the codex.

Is there an FAQ that contradicts this or something?

I'm pretty sure that the Guard only get Ld10 from special characters or the commissar and HSO or JO with HI combo. And these don't go beyond the bubble.

I think it is best to take a reasonable approach to Ld with the guard and realise that we are not Space Marines and we are going to fall back from time to time to try and preserve our skins...
 

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Are you sure?

You're right. It is't able to travel down a vox-network. You CAN however get leadership 10 if you have an HSO nearby a squad with COD.
I was under the impression a comissar gives +1 to Leadership of a Junior officer, Senior or Heroic Senior Officer. (The one with LD 9) and it's his leadership that is used down the Vox. If it added "+1 to the leadership test", that would be different, and things like re-rolls and trademark items don't, nor do any abilities IE Iron discipline,
- but as it is a plus (even tempoary/removable) to his LD stat it works. - I may be wrong, I have made mistakes previously.
 

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Hmm

I think you may be right. I scoped out the Vox Caster rules and it doesn't say no bonuses apply it states that there are two specific types of bonus which do not apply.

In line with the FAQ which states that the Commissar improves the Ld of the HQ Command Squad character then I would be happy to see a +1 boost coming from the Commissar and being transmitted through the vox. Bit of a loaded gun mind you as the more test you take the more chance of failing on and then having your bubble burst.

Commissar can't use the vox can they?
 

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Oh and about the list

I really think that you should use Ratlings as snipers. Using Special Weapons Squads always seems inefficient as you can't hand them all a sniper rifle...
 

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Wow

I think it would be a little more fair if you would give a reason or two Imperator. That would mean that I could disagree with you in a structured way. The sniper rifle is a useful tool and the Ratling special rules lend themselves to 40K. A small unit of say 7 Ratlings is easily concealed within a piece of scenery and is able to cause enough damage to is targets. I think they are a great risk to Wraithlords and powerful creatures. The excellent accuracy and good range of the sniper rifle are not to be sniffed at in an army that misses half the time.

What's so bad about a ratling? The counts as rules are really useful too, as long as you make convincing conversions you don't even need to use the ratling models. I use cadians covered in stealth gear or converted drone type platforms with sniper rifles. They look sweet.
 

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Guardsmen Upgrades; Plasma Gun
Master Vox
Medic
Standard Bearer
Sanctioned Psyker
Commissar with Power Fist and Power Weapon

- He is your LD 10 master vox, with a comissar sat next to him. He is also a 6 man T3 squad to attact every piece of fire on the table at every oppertunity, at quite some cost.
drop the plasma gun, medic, standard bearer and (sacrilidge - I hear you scream) remove power fist on the commissar. Continue reading and i'll give you a H2H command squad later. That saves 54+standard?? points. (standards don't go down a vox anyway.)
Commisar's ld bonus doesnt spread through neither bubble nor vox, so the highest Ld guard units can have is 9. Commisar's bonus only applies to Ld tests that the unit makes.
 

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Actually

Actually,

When it comes to the HQ Command Platoon the Commissar's bonus works in a slightly different way. The bonus Ld does apply to the HQ bubble because the JO, SO or HSO gains a increase in their Ld. This is explicity defined as affecting the HQ leadership bubble and by reasonable extension the vox network s able to carry the bonus as it is a change in Ld rather than a special rule as generated by Trademark Items and Standards.

This is not true of normal HQ units.

You can refer to the FAQ on this one.

So in short. You can have a Ld10 Vox network. It's just that if you fail a test then the Officer gets capped.
 

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....

So in short. You can have a Ld10 Vox network. It's just that if you fail a test then the Officer gets capped.

Umm, does that mean if Squad Alpha - who are goofing off 3 feet away on the board - test against the Colonel's Ld10 and fail - the Commissar shoots the Colonel?

<snigger>

Actually how I read it was:

FAQ

The Commissar's Leadership Bonus applies to the JO, SO, HSO Leadership special rule if he is placed with the command HQ.

Then subsequently it states:

Special rules such as Iron Discipline or Wargear such as a Trademark Item are not conveyed down a vox link

Now I would read that as meaning the Commissar affects the Leadership Special Rule if he is placed with the HQ, but that Special Rules cannot be conveyed down a vox link.

????
 
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