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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I literally have the DE book and a sorceress model, that's it. So I'm a complete and total blank slate. After a long time of Beastmen and WoC I wanted an army that can be shooty, I literally surrender my shooting phase in every single game I play ... every single time. I'd like to shoot something and the DE's are simply way cooler than the other armies that have shooty options.

I don't need an ultra competitive list as I really only play friendly games but I'd like to not be tabled every time I play too.

So with little more than some lurking and reading of lists around here ...

Lord - 290, Supreme Sorceres, lvl4, Tal of Pres, Dispel Scroll - I was thinking of dark magic. Should she be on a mount? Does she need a bunker? How the heck do you keep this chick alive?

Hero - 153, Master, BSB, Halb, AoD, SD cloak. Is this enough?

Core - 608

36 Dark Shards, FC, Shields - I had read on here that 18x2 is great for shooting and then you can reform to 5x6 for steadfast when the enemy gets close and they work surprisingly well for this. Originally I had my core being corsairs with AHW but then I realized all I was doing was loading up on CC infantry. If I wanted that I'd just stick with WoC/Beastmen.

5 Dark Riders, M, Shields, R.Xbows. Because Captain says they're good.

Special - 390

30 Executioners, FC. Non-negotiable, the models are just too freaking awesome.

According to my math this brings me to 1441/1500 which obviously gives me a little playing room for banners or items.

My real question is, where on earth do I go from here? I'd like to bring it up to 2K and to 2.25K each. I really dig the executioner models and don't want to sacrifice them. I'm not really digging the witch elves to be honest so I don't think I'd go that way. I also have two armies that literally just walk their way across the table as fast as possible so I'd like to explore a more well rounded play style. Like I said I'm really a blank slate as I literally just have a sorceress model and the DE book. I know what I dig in terms of models and just from models standpoint I have to have executioners ... other than that I'm open to any and all suggestions.

I also like the idea that I read around that you can skip the lvl 4 and go with Warlocks but I'm not really sure how I feel about that.

My primary opponents will be Beastmen, WoC, Empire and O&G.

Thanks in advance.
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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Lord - 290, Supreme Sorceres, lvl4, Tal of Pres, Dispel Scroll - I was thinking of dark magic. Should she be on a mount? Does she need a bunker? How the heck do you keep this chick alive?
Same way that you keep any unarmored Wizard alive. Put her in a unit that gives her LoS(m'lady?) rolls, and then hope that nobody goes after her in combat. I'd just toss her in the Executioners. Put her on the corner of a Horde-width regiment and then put the BSB on the other corner and you guarantee that someone probably won't see enemy attacks (you can always "make way" with the BSB, if needed)

Hero - 153, Master, BSB, Halb, AoD, SD cloak. Is this enough?
Yeah, that's enough - he'll hold up nicely dressed in all that.

Core - 608

36 Dark Shards, FC, Shields - I had read on here that 18x2 is great for shooting and then you can reform to 5x6 for steadfast when the enemy gets close and they work surprisingly well for this. Originally I had my core being corsairs with AHW but then I realized all I was doing was loading up on CC infantry. If I wanted that I'd just stick with WoC/Beastmen.
mmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeh... yeah? The thing is, they won't last all that long without something else in the list to bail them out. Right now, you don't have that, because your Execs are too big and expensive to be used on "babysitting". I'd rather just see these guys broken down to make better use of their shooting, give you more deployment drops, and actually - they can be used similarly to chaff in the movement phase.

5 Dark Riders, M, Shields, R.Xbows. Because Captain says they're good.
Oh yeah, they're good. They're like siblings or small children - I love mine, and hate other people's. Having multiple units of these is a really good way to "out Wood Elf the Wood Elves" when it comes to be untouchable and shooting people full of holes.

Special - 390

30 Executioners, FC. Non-negotiable, the models are just too freaking awesome.
Yeah. I'd death-star them up then. Super-frenzy and/or Cauldron (definitely Cauldron for Wardsave) and hook them up magic flag for extra survival, and so forth. Depending on what parts of the models you like (everything but the swords) you could just build them as Black Guard you know. Give them everything else that the Execs wear, and stick Halbies on 'em.

According to my math this brings me to 1441/1500 which obviously gives me a little playing room for banners or items.

My real question is, where on earth do I go from here? I'd like to bring it up to 2K and to 2.25K each. I really dig the executioner models and don't want to sacrifice them. I'm not really digging the witch elves to be honest so I don't think I'd go that way. I also have two armies that literally just walk their way across the table as fast as possible so I'd like to explore a more well rounded play style. Like I said I'm really a blank slate as I literally just have a sorceress model and the DE book. I know what I dig in terms of models and just from models standpoint I have to have executioners ... other than that I'm open to any and all suggestions.
Not being cool with Witch Elves is cool with me. Grab more Dark Riders for your Core and you literally CAN NOT GO WRONG. Otherwise, Corsairs are solid, and you could giv'em Handbows to keep the shootiness factor.

I also like the idea that I read around that you can skip the lvl 4 and go with Warlocks but I'm not really sure how I feel about that.
You can, or you can do both. Basically, skipping the L4 means that your 'Locks have to throw more dice to get their spells off, because you can't draw out dice with your bigger caster. Conversely, 'Locks don't worry about Miscasts nearly as much. It's something you'll have to try out for yourself, because it depends on how your opponents handle your magic phase (since you frequently have the same opponents), maybe alternate between the two to keep them on their toes. Locks are a very solid unit though. I mean that.
Cap's rhapsody in blue.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
mmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeh... yeah? The thing is, they won't last all that long without something else in the list to bail them out. Right now, you don't have that, because your Execs are too big and expensive to be used on "babysitting". I'd rather just see these guys broken down to make better use of their shooting, give you more deployment drops, and actually - they can be used similarly to chaff in the movement phase.
Would the dark shards at the number I put be more reasonable at higher level, say 2.25k? But at this level I'm better off with smaller units and putting some more points into special?

Oh yeah, they're good. They're like siblings or small children - I love mine, and hate other people's. Having multiple units of these is a really good way to "out Wood Elf the Wood Elves" when it comes to be untouchable and shooting people full of holes.
Right, well I'm basing the entire concept on them being in my army on how you talk about them. I probably never would have considered them otherwise.

Yeah. I'd death-star them up then. Super-frenzy and/or Cauldron (definitely Cauldron for Wardsave) and hook them up magic flag for extra survival, and so forth. Depending on what parts of the models you like (everything but the swords) you could just build them as Black Guard you know. Give them everything else that the Execs wear, and stick Halbies on 'em.
With my absolute ignorance on builds ... how do I get a cauldron into the unit? Do I forego the Master/BSB and get a hag on a cauldron instead? And I like the S6 that the executioners give at I5, that's insane to me. Not that I don't like the Black Guard but I feel like they're just weak T3 Warriors who hit alot.

Not being cool with Witch Elves is cool with me. Grab more Dark Riders for your Core and you literally CAN NOT GO WRONG. Otherwise, Corsairs are solid, and you could giv'em Handbows to keep the shootiness factor.
I'm down with the Dark Riders. I'll cut up the Dark Shards a bit, maybe post a new proposed list tonight.

Thanks for the feedback.
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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10 Execs, 10 Black Guard
vs. WS1-4, T3, Sv5+, 6++ Parry
Ex :: 6.67 hits, 5.56 wounds, (6.475 Murderous Prowess), no armor, 5.4 (Parry) = 5.4 kills
BG :: 10 hits (13.33 Eternal Hatred), 8.89 wounds (10.37 Murderous Prowess) = 8.64 (armor), 7.2 (Parry) = 7.2 kills

vs. WS5, T4, Sv4+
Ex :: 5 hits, 4.17 wounds (4.86 Murderous Prowess), no armor = 4.86 kills
BG :: 7.5 hits (11.25 Eternal Hatred), 5.63 wounds (5.57 Murderous Prowess) 3.71 (armor) = 3.71 kills
BG w/ Razor Banner = 4.64 kills

So ultimately, the Black Guard are not only going to hit more, they are usually doing more damage as well. The difference obviously being against Chaos Warrior type stuff, in which case the BGs aren't too much more badly off, and they do that damage before the I5 Warriors get to take chunks out of them. BGs are also much better at killing of High Elves, ironically enough.
Dark Elves have problems with thick armor. It's a known fact - get past that, and you're all set. Yes, Executioners have the strength to do that, but that is one unit to deal with enemy armor. Conversely, you could use Metal or Shadow (top-loading on wounds) to give you a more flexible response to the armies who bring armor, while sacrificing a bit less against the types of armies who don't.

Big units of Dark Shards would be a bit more useful if you had options for bailing them out of a fight. If you had room in the army to throw in some Chariots or if you had smaller blocks of Executioners, perhaps some Knights, etc. Whether those options open up as the army grows is up to you. Having a regiment that can stand firm with Steadfast is good, but at least where I'm from, you're stopping either small chaff/tarpit units themselves, or you're stopping a Deathstar. If you have a Deathstar yourself, you're looking to clear a path, rather than block one.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Pretty freaking happy with the way things are looking for DE, looks like a very different style of play.

Thanks for all the feedback on the lists and units. I'm a little caught between the BG and the Executioners just because I love the idea of the Ex but the Eternal Hatred for the BG is just insane as well. Bah, too much to choose from!

So now I have a 1.5k list that is exactly 1.5k - hopefully my math isn't off.

Supreme S, LVL4, Tal of Pres, D. Scroll - 290.

Death Hag, BSB, O. Blade (is this boost to her S worth it?), Cauldron - 340.

D. Riders - 3 units of 5 each with M. and X.bows - 110 each.

D. Shards - Ten of them, FC, Shields - 160

B. Guard - 21, FC, Razor Banner - 390

So do I put the hag/cauldron and the sorceress in with the BG? Then I harass the heck out of the enemy with my D. Riders and shoot a bit with my D. Shards?

I'd like to consider Cold One Knights as I go up but I'm not sold on them. They're not exactly WoC knights, are they? I figure the first thing to do as I go up in points is to fill out the BG to at least 30 and then go from there with anything additional.

At this point level is the hag with the cauldron worth that many points or would more BG be worth more and just stick with the Master build from the original list?

Thanks again, as always you're the man with the answers.
 

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Bg are defo the better option for cauldron I do like to stick in tulius to give them frenzy and death hag bsb for re roll on frenzy.

I like cold one knights I like cold one chariots more but not sure how well they do in big games.
 
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