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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am not sure what exactly the campaign entails, but it is either 750 or 1000. If it is 1000 these are the two lists ive come up with.

List 1:

HQ.
Farseer w/ Doom

Elites.
6 Banshees w/ Exarch and mirror swords
Wave serpeant w/ Spirit stones and TL Shuriken Cannon

Troops.

9 DA w/ Exarch, Bladestorm, and dual catas
Wave serpeant w/ Spirit stones and TL Shuriken Cannon

5 Rangers

Heavy Support.
Fire Prism
Fire Prism
Fire Prism

OR

HQ.
Farseer w/ Doom

Elites.
7 Banshees w/ Exarch, mirror swords, and acrobatic
Wave serpeant w/ spirit stones and TL EML

Troops.
10DA w/Exarch, bladestorm and dual catas
Wave serpeant w/TL BL and spirit stones

5 Pathfinders

Heavy Support.
Fire Prism
Fire Prism


Most of these are the same guys from that 500 pt tourny I played last saturday. Not very many of them are that good. Or my mech eldar is too cheesy to lose ;)
 

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I would field the second list, partially because it's almost exactly what I run at 1000pts, and because I feel it's the more well rounded of the two. By giving the wave serpents the EMLs and Bright Lances, you've spread your anti-tank around more, which lets you exploit the versaility of the two prisms a lot more (i.e. dropping the MEQ deathplate or the two regular large blast templates). In the first list it seems like they would just be locked in to anti-tank till those threats were removed. And upgrading to pathfinders is always nice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I know i feel the same way. i will probably go with the 2nd list, although id love to bring 3 prisms to the field in 1000pts
 

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I like the second list better,i think,in 1k,3 fire prisms are a little overkill.Also too,i dont think you will need the pathfinder upgrade on the rangers.Because,visualizing 1k game,if you place them right,they most likely not get shot the entire game,especially since you have 2 wave serpents bearing down on them anyways and 2 fire prisms going spider monkey on their tanks,then infantry.With the extra 25 points you could buy an extra banshee and if you found 7 more points lying around get a second.Have fun!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I am probably going with the 2nd list.

I have found tho that when i have the rangers ont he board, they attract almost all the fire of anything not anti tank. 1, because they have sniper rifles, 2, they are a troop choice.

They almost always die before the game is over. When i used pathfinders i managed to keep 2-3 alive for the game. (if they werent assaulted).

I do want the extra banshee, but ive found that they can get the job done with 7 and a farseer. Generally (since most armies are mechanized now a days) there is only 1 unit they slaughter, sometimes 2. And it is usually a hard packing elite like thousand suns or gene stealers, or the troop objective camper.
 

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At 12 armor, a fireprism is hardly difficult to kill.. Eldar tanks are infamous for survivability even while stationary because of upgrades... so drop what you need to and give at least one prism holofields, that is, if you want real fine cheeze anyways. Eldar are not about versatility in almost all cases, they are all about specific jobs.. true it's nice to fire prisms elsewhere, but really? are you facing two landraiders in 1000 pts? if not I see no reasons why not to downgrade for starcannons. I agree with the pathfinder comment of a points sink, but if that's how you say they need to be, I won't tell you you're wrong. Just that the guys at your club are strange :p.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
At 12 armor, a fireprism is hardly difficult to kill.. Eldar tanks are infamous for survivability even while stationary because of upgrades...That was 4th edition. so drop what you need to and give at least one prism holofields, that is, if you want real fine cheeze anyways. Holofields are good, b ut are by no means cheese. They are not nearly as good as before. Eldar are not about versatility in almost all cases, they are all about specific jobs.. true it's nice to fire prisms elsewhere, but really? are you facing two landraiders in 1000 pts?Are you kidding me?? The fire prism comes with TWO jobs, in fact half of the time he is pie playing squads of infantry cause of i have BLs to shoot at the big boys. Its not like i take them to shoot at tanks all day, they shoot at what i need them to, whether it is infantry or vehicles. if not I see no reasons why not to downgrade for starcannons.Starcannons are the worst gun eldar can take. I wont argue this with you. All the eldar vets will agree with me. I agree with the pathfinder comment of a points sink, but if that's how you say they need to be, I won't tell you you're wrong. Just that the guys at your club are strange What are you talking about? it is "strange" to shoot at the only non mech unit that is a TROOP choice? what is so strange about that?:p.
I thank you for your comment, but I disagree with about everything youve said.
 

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Speed is red
ericismyname is blue

At 12 armor, a fireprism is hardly difficult to kill.. Eldar tanks are infamous for survivability even while stationary because of upgrades...That was 4th edition. They still are very survivable tanks, due to SS and holofields.. even without the cover save from moving fast.. Not really sure what you're sore about there. so drop what you need to and give at least one prism holofields, that is, if you want real fine cheeze anyways. Holofields are good, b ut are by no means cheese. They are not nearly as good as before. Cheese may be too far, but excuse me for speaking lightly. Eldar are not about versatility in almost all cases, they are all about specific jobs.. true it's nice to fire prisms elsewhere, but really? are you facing two landraiders in 1000 pts?Are you kidding me?? The fire prism comes with TWO jobs, in fact half of the time he is pie playing squads of infantry cause of i have BLs to shoot at the big boys. Its not like i take them to shoot at tanks all day, they shoot at what i need them to, whether it is infantry or vehicles. If they're only pie plating infantry half the time, It has plenty of time to pop the one or two big things out there, like a landraider. My comment is in astonishment that there are actually players that field enought HEAVY armor to need the excess bright lances when you've got two prisms for (rounding down from your comment) 2 turns. scatter lasers and shuriken cannons can take side armor of many vehicles. if not I see no reasons why not to downgrade for starcannons.Starcannons are the worst gun eldar can take. I wont argue this with you. All the eldar vets will agree with me. star cannons have their purpose, and I play with them because I face a lot of meq. There is NO gun I would rather take on a wave serpent if I already have sufficient anti vehicle and light infantry guns. Not ALL vets agree, needless to say the best player I think I've read from or followed at wayofsaimhann (fritz) is an extremely tough player and uses them. ALL is a strong word, and impossible to defend.I agree with the pathfinder comment of a points sink, but if that's how you say they need to be, I won't tell you you're wrong. Just that the guys at your club are strange What are you talking about? it is "strange" to shoot at the only non mech unit that is a TROOP choice? what is so strange about that?:p. I'll admit that one was wrong, just wasn't thinking about how minimal your troops choices were.

We seem to have different views. This is quite possibly the outcome of the people we most often play against. But understand that I mean none of it in an offensive, or taunting manor, so please don't take it as such.. as long as we keep it clean, one or both of us will benefit. :handshake:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Speed is red
ericismyname is blue

At 12 armor, a fireprism is hardly difficult to kill.. Eldar tanks are infamous for survivability even while stationary because of upgrades...That was 4th edition. They still are very survivable tanks, due to SS and holofields.. even without the cover save from moving fast.. Not really sure what you're sore about there. Yes you are right, they do add to the tanks life span. Although for the benefits I cannot say I would take them for 45 points. I can use those points to upgrade more things that I find more useful. so drop what you need to and give at least one prism holofields, that is, if you want real fine cheeze anyways. Holofields are good, b ut are by no means cheese. They are not nearly as good as before. Cheese may be too far, but excuse me for speaking lightly.Done. Eldar are not about versatility in almost all cases, they are all about specific jobs.. true it's nice to fire prisms elsewhere, but really? are you facing two landraiders in 1000 pts?Are you kidding me?? The fire prism comes with TWO jobs, in fact half of the time he is pie playing squads of infantry cause of i have BLs to shoot at the big boys. Its not like i take them to shoot at tanks all day, they shoot at what i need them to, whether it is infantry or vehicles. If they're only pie plating infantry half the time, It has plenty of time to pop the one or two big things out there, like a landraider. My comment is in astonishment that there are actually players that field enought HEAVY armor to need the excess bright lances when you've got two prisms for (rounding down from your comment) 2 turns. scatter lasers and shuriken cannons can take side armor of many vehicles. Well think about other tanks, predetors, vindictators, soulgrinders, all have armor 13 in the front and much cheaper than a land raider. The big guns are for all tanks and heavy armor i encounter not just land raiders.if not I see no reasons why not to downgrade for starcannons.Starcannons are the worst gun eldar can take. I wont argue this with you. All the eldar vets will agree with me. star cannons have their purpose, and I play with them because I face a lot of meq. There is NO gun I would rather take on a wave serpent if I already have sufficient anti vehicle and light infantry guns. Not ALL vets agree, needless to say the best player I think I've read from or followed at wayofsaimhann (fritz) is an extremely tough player and uses them. ALL is a strong word, and impossible to defend.Wasnt he the guy who was vyper crazy with starcannons and such in 4th edition?I agree with the pathfinder comment of a points sink, but if that's how you say they need to be, I won't tell you you're wrong. Just that the guys at your club are strange What are you talking about? it is "strange" to shoot at the only non mech unit that is a TROOP choice? what is so strange about that?:p. I'll admit that one was wrong, just wasn't thinking about how minimal your troops choices were. Done.

We seem to have different views. This is quite possibly the outcome of the people we most often play against. But understand that I mean none of it in an offensive, or taunting manor, so please don't take it as such.. as long as we keep it clean, one or both of us will benefit. :handshake:
Agreed.
 

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Holofields and SS are merely there to help with turn 5 tactics. But I suppose each player does differently, so I can only suggest you try that way, and see how it goes before completely shooting down the idea. And if you already have to no avail, then two minds think differently.

If you can't get side armor shots off with the speed of mech eldar, then I suggest you play around a lot more, you'll find it's not that difficult, that is, unless the enemy lines up tanks all the way across the board, which is your only worry in that case.

True, fritz is indeed vyper crazy, and still is. They fit his tactics well, and that's all he needs. But starcannons are still used by people, because them make fine killers of GW's baby, the space marine. Granted if you never face them at your club, or not enough for it to be worth it, I hardly see a reason to take them.. But if this is not the case, do try them before ruling them out.. they cost some points, sure, but if you use them advantageously (similarly to using your speed to hit side or maybe if you're lucky/extremely good rear armor) then they can create some pretty terrific fire support.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Speed I am a fully capable, very seasoned veteren eldar player (since 2nd edition). Do not talk down upon me and my tactics and statements. Star cannons are only good for killing meq infantry and thats it. For almost the same price as a lance or EML. Both the other 2 options are better than starcannons. You show me a competetive list that can prove it did well witha starcannon loadout. And I will believe you. Until then I think starcannons are worth less than the peice of crap plastic they are made out of.

Considering you can only move 12" and still shoot 1 weapon, getting to side and rear armor arny as easy as it sounds. THe opposing player must only pivot next turn and watch you face front armor again. It is must easier to use the powerful eldar weaponry that is available to attack head on, rather then run around the battlefield getting shot to peices in hopes you will get a side or rear armor shot.
 

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I didn't mean to "talk down" on you, just a wrongly worded statement. I find it not that difficult, and maybe that's just because of the players that I play. They may be much less seasoned than you and your club, because ours is much newer. I just do a two or three way split, and that's when I inserted the comment on the wall of tanks, which is likely to be seen now anyways with mech on the rise, and that's why I said it.

And starcannons are what they are, meq killers.. I never implied that they were more than that. Assuming you play against a much more varying group than meq would make them certainly not worth it. A competitive list that uses it is fritz's... And I'll take no shame in saying that I learn most of my tactics from him. But he plays with a less competitive list in most eyes, and for him it works on a very competitive level. So it's all how you play and who you play against... I'm not saying it's a glorious weapon, only that it is against meq.

I'm sorry my wording came off so poorly, and did not by any means wish to have it like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I am sorry for my outburt, it was completely uncalled for.

Starcannons are good for shooting down termies, not enoug shots for tac marines unless they have combat tacticed. The reason there are of no use is because most competetive lists use prisms. Which are 10x better at destroying meqs and can be used to destroy tanks. Which dual purposes are better than one. If I took a list with no prisms (never going to happen) then i would probably need some starcannons since 1/2 of my opponenets are either marines, csm, and an occasionally necron player. But as said before, prisms do the job better and more efficiently.

Fritz may have a competetive list, i have not seen a recent one. Although at 'ard boyz and local area competetive tournaments (usually same group of people who played in the 'ard boyz tourny here) the eldar lists were almost completely mechanized and consiting of no star cannons.

But you are right, to each their own.
 

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It's all good, no worries. The prism argument makes a lot more sense than any other I've heard, So I guess they would only really be worth it with filled heavy supports and still needing a little more anti meq, although I almost can't believe it necessary in less than 2500.

On a more back to your lists note, have you played with either? how have they faired?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
THe campaign has been post poned and i think they are dropping it to 750. So i have no idea how the lists will fair.
 
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