[Lavallin]

I am scheduled to take part in a fairly casual 2 vs. 2 game at the end of Jan, pitting myself and my brother, both fielding Guard, against two guys who will both be fielding marines. From what I've seen of their play style, I'm expecting them to play a fairly balanced list, with some tac squads, some deep striking, and probably one Land Raider. My brother is likely to construct his force around a solid 'base' platoon, plus a Leman Russ, and possibly including Le Soldat Marbo. So I've gone for the other end of the Guard spectrum - special forces, as an Inquisitorial Retinue.

What do you think? Will it work in a team situation? Is it hideous?

HQ
Company Command Squad with 2 Flamers, Officer of the Fleet (90 pts)
Allied Inquisitor Lord (Ordo Malleus) with Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon and Emperor's Tarot, retinue of 2 Mystics, 1 Acolyte (96 pts)

Elites
Eversor Assassin (95 pts)
Storm Trooper Squad with Meltagun (95 pts)

Fast Attack
Vendetta (130 pts)
Valkyrie with Rocket Pods (130 pts)

Troops
Veteran Squad with Demolitions Doctrine (100 pts)
Veteran Squad with Demolitions Doctrine (100 pts)

Heavy Support
Demolisher with Hull Heavy Bolter (165 pts)

Total: 1001 pts (yes, one point over, but you can't have an inquisitor without a bolt pistol and more than you could a commissar!)

As you've no doubt guessed, the Inquisitor will hang back and babysit the demolisher, taking free pot-shots at any deep-striking troops, hopefully arriving piecemeal due to the OotF. The STs will deep strike and attempt to deal with any deep-board troops such as Devastators or Whirlwinds. The veterans are partly there to alpha-strike a Land Raider, if one does appear, but also for demo-charge hilarity and/or late-game objective grabs.

All comments and criticism welcomed.

 

[SandWyrm]

HQ
Platoon Command Squad with 2 Flamers, Officer of the Fleet (90 pts)
Allied Inquisitor Lord (Ordo Malleus) with Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon and Emperor's Tarot, retinue of 2 Mystics, 1 Acolyte (96 pts)

Note: This is actually a COMPANY command squad. Big difference.

Anyhow, flamers are a waste of these guys's BS4. Four meltas or 3 meltas and a flamer/hvy flamer are better. They also need a ride.

As for the =][= and the assassin, drop 'em. There's nothing the Marines can drop that your forces can't handle just fine without them. The Eversor isn't that great anyhow.

Elites
Eversor Assassin (95 pts)
Storm Trooper Squad with Meltagun (95 pts)

One deep striking stormie squad isn't going to be reliable. You really need at least 2 if you're going to use these guys. In which case go with 2 meltas in each squad or go home.

Fast Attack
Vendetta (130 pts)
Valkyrie with Rocket Pods (130 pts)

Go with 2 Vendettas for redundancy.

Troops
Veteran Squad with Demolitions Doctrine (100 pts)
Veteran Squad with Demolitions Doctrine (100 pts)

These guys need flamers and shotguns.

Heavy Support
Demolisher with Hull Heavy Bolter (165 pts)

Good, but give it a hull heavy flamer instead. You'll love it.

Here's what I would take:

HQ
170 Company Command Squad w/3 x Melta, Flamer, Fleet Officer, Chimera (Hull Heavy Flamer)

Troops
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera (Hull Heavy Flamer)
115 Veteran Squad w/3 x Flamer, Demolitions
115 Veteran Squad w/3 x Flamer, Demolitions

Fast Attack
140 Vendetta Gunship
140 Vendetta Gunship

Heavy Support
165 Leman Russ Demolisher w/Hull Heavy Flamer

Total: 1000 pts (9 KP)

 

[Lavallin]

Thanks for the quick reply. I've changed the PCS to CCS - that was just an aberration on my part, sorry.

I'm pretty much happy to accept your recommendations in full; the only other thought I'd had in an early draft of the list was to take a specialist CCS of heavy infantry hunters, armed with 3x plasma and a medic. I've dropped the OotF given that I'm also not taking the Inquisitor.

Total cost: CCS + 3 Plasma, Medic, Chimera = 180 pts

This is ten points more than you've specced, so I'd recover that excess by dropping one flamer from each veteran squad. Is there any mileage in this at all?

 

[ChadMS]

Flamers are effective weapons, but against marines? Even in large numbers they won't be immensly effective. Meltaguns, or plasma guns would probably be better. Plus these weapons allow you to make full use of veterans BS.

 

[Lavallin]

Flamers are effective weapons, but against marines? Even in large numbers they won't be immensly effective. Meltaguns, or plasma guns would probably be better. Plus these weapons allow you to make full use of veterans BS.

I do completely agree, but what do you suggest I cut to make room for the points difference? Short of returning to only two veterans squads, there's not a lot of flab in the list at the moment...

 

[SandWyrm]

Flamers kill marines just fine.

Assuming you're hitting 6 marines with the templates, each flamer will kill one marine on average. Which is *better* kill odds than you'll get with 3 meltas at half the points. The upside with flamers is that if you're a bit lucky, you'll kill 5+ marines instead. Which is a huge upside. Only plasma can match that, at 3x the points and a big risk to your firing models.

 

[IronWeevil]

Note: This is actually a COMPANY command squad. Big difference.

Anyhow, flamers are a waste of these guys's BS4. Four meltas or 3 meltas and a flamer/hvy flamer are better. They also need a ride.

As for the =][= and the assassin, drop 'em. There's nothing the Marines can drop that your forces can't handle just fine without them. The Eversor isn't that great anyhow.



One deep striking stormie squad isn't going to be reliable. You really need at least 2 if you're going to use these guys. In which case go with 2 meltas in each squad or go home.



Go with 2 Vendettas for redundancy.



These guys need flamers and shotguns.



Good, but give it a hull heavy flamer instead. You'll love it.

Here's what I would take:

HQ
170 Company Command Squad w/3 x Melta, Flamer, Fleet Officer, Chimera (Hull Heavy Flamer)

Troops
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera (Hull Heavy Flamer)
115 Veteran Squad w/3 x Flamer, Demolitions
115 Veteran Squad w/3 x Flamer, Demolitions

Fast Attack
140 Vendetta Gunship
140 Vendetta Gunship

Heavy Support
165 Leman Russ Demolisher w/Hull Heavy Flamer

Total: 1000 pts (9 KP)

It's not noted, but I'm assuming to hit 140 the vendettas are packing HB sponsons.

 

[SandWyrm]

Yeah, forgot to spec that.

 

[ChadMS]

Flamers kill marines just fine.

Assuming you're hitting 6 marines with the templates, each flamer will kill one marine on average. Which is *better* kill odds than you'll get with 3 meltas at half the points. The upside with flamers is that if you're a bit lucky, you'll kill 5+ marines instead. Which is a huge upside. Only plasma can match that, at 3x the points and a big risk to your firing models.

We could argue an lot about this, so I'm not going to drag it on, but with meltas and plasmas, you've got the range, and with meltas, the ability to kill a land raider-something that our friend Lavallin is expecting to turn up. It can also instant-kill a marine. There are few weapons better for popping nasty combat characters like space marine commanders or terminators. When you need someone to just die, right now, a melta is one of the best weapons you can use to do it with. I do see your point though, if you want to do the mathhammer. Flamers can kill almost anything well.

@Lavallin
If you want to fit these weapons in, you could make room for it by dropping the officer of the fleet. He is sometimes good, but is not all he seems. Having your reserves trun up late can sometimes be a big advantage. Especially when fighting shooting heavy armies like the guard.

 

[IronWeevil]

There are few weapons better for popping nasty combat characters like space marine commanders or terminators. When you need someone to just die, right now, a melta is one of the best weapons you can use to do it with. I do see your point though, if you want to do the mathhammer. Flamers can kill almost anything well.

I kind of like demo charges for this too

 

[SandWyrm]

We could argue an lot about this, so I'm not going to drag it on, but with meltas and plasmas, you've got the range, and with meltas, the ability to kill a land raider-something that our friend Lavallin is expecting to turn up. It can also instant-kill a marine. There are few weapons better for popping nasty combat characters like space marine commanders or terminators. When you need someone to just die, right now, a melta is one of the best weapons you can use to do it with. I do see your point though, if you want to do the mathhammer. Flamers can kill almost anything well.

We're talking about troops jumping out of a Vendetta at close range here, not foot-sloggers or Chimera-bourne troops. Given first turn, he'll be charging tanks and killing them with his melta bombs. In other scenarios he'll be dropping onto objectives to clear them. Flamers + the demo charge are a fine choice for both. Particularly when the enemy, blown out of his transport or hiding in area terrain, will have cover from your melta or plasma weapons. It's better in that case to make him roll more saves than load up on expensive AP2 weaponry.