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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Greetings Druchii
I have read a lot about the Warhammer world and for a long time wanted to get an army but havent had anyone to play with but now I think I will get one anyway.

I have come up with a couple of difrent army lists but these two are the ones I like the most.

Alternative 1

Char
Sorceress - level 2, Cold One, Darkstar Cloak - 176 pt

Core
24 Warriors - shields, full command - 217 pt
12 Warriors - xbow - 132 pt
12 Warriors - xbow - 132 pt
5 Dark Riders - xbow - 120 pt

Special
5 Cold One Knights - full command - 190

Rare
-
Total pt: 967
Comments:
Big defensive block in the midfield to block up the enemy and good ranged dmg from xbows and magic. 2 cavalry units to cover the flanks and to charge into the flanks of the enemy when it is locked into combat in the middle. My intention with this army would be to expand it with some hard hitting infantery like Executioners and add a chariot and some more knights, maybe a bolt thrower of two.

Alternative 2

Char
Sorceress - level 2, Cold One, Darkstar Cloak - 176 pt

Core
16 Warriors - shields, full command - 153 pt
16 Warriors - xbow, full command - 201 pt

Special
5 Cold One Knights - full command - 190 pt

Rare
12 Black Guard - full command, Banner of Murder - 272 pt

Total pt: 992

Comments:
A more offensive army including a regiment of Black Guard (my person favorit regiment amonst the Dark Elves). I good balance of elite troops and rank n fill troops and good CC and decent ranged damage. What i like with the Dark Elves are all thier cool elite units and with this army I was thinking of getting a nice mix of them.


I already have the sorceress and 2x16 warriors put together and painted so I need to be sure of what to buy next.



All constructive criticism is much well come, I'd love to hear what a veteran Druchii general have to say about the armies above.
 

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Master of the Crab Women
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Greetings Druchii
I have read a lot about the Warhammer world and for a long time wanted to get an army but havent had anyone to play with but now I think I will get one anyway.

I have come up with a couple of difrent army lists but these two are the ones I like the most.

Alternative 1

Char
Sorceress - level 2, Cold One, Darkstar Cloak - 176 pt

Core
24 Warriors - shields, full command - 217 pt
12 Warriors - xbow - 132 pt
12 Warriors - xbow - 132 pt
5 Dark Riders - xbow - 120 pt

Special
5 Cold One Knights - full command - 190

Rare
-
Total pt: 967
Comments:
Big defensive block in the midfield to block up the enemy and good ranged dmg from xbows and magic. 2 cavalry units to cover the flanks and to charge into the flanks of the enemy when it is locked into combat in the middle. My intention with this army would be to expand it with some hard hitting infantery like Executioners and add a chariot and some more knights, maybe a bolt thrower of two.

Alternative 2

Char
Sorceress - level 2, Cold One, Darkstar Cloak - 176 pt

Core
16 Warriors - shields, full command - 153 pt
16 Warriors - xbow, full command - 201 pt

Special
5 Cold One Knights - full command - 190 pt

Rare
12 Black Guard - full command, Banner of Murder - 272 pt

Total pt: 992

Comments:
A more offensive army including a regiment of Black Guard (my person favorit regiment amonst the Dark Elves). I good balance of elite troops and rank n fill troops and good CC and decent ranged damage. What i like with the Dark Elves are all thier cool elite units and with this army I was thinking of getting a nice mix of them.


I already have the sorceress and 2x16 warriors put together and painted so I need to be sure of what to buy next.



All constructive criticism is much well come, I'd love to hear what a veteran Druchii general have to say about the armies above.
I have played using Dark Elves before but I do not profess to be an expert.

List 1:

First off, the sorcceress is pretty expensive and with 5 power dice you'll be kicking out one guaranteed spell per turn. I suggest using a noble on a cold one with all the trimmings to go with the knights (the leadership bonus is pretty nice too).

If your spearmen are going to be marching down the centre, I suggest using corsairs instead as they are (in my opinon) better in this dynamic role. Of course if you don't have the models then the spearmen are still alright.

Dark Riders are great. I'd personally go for two units. They are good for baiting and kick out a decent punch against light units. Give them a musician for the rallying bonus.

The crossbow warriors are alright but I have found them ineffective in the past. Personally I would drop both units to gain a Reaper Bolt Thrower and another unit of Dark Riders.

The knights are alright but could do with a noble to lead them (as mentioned before).

List 2:

Same comments apply to the Sorceress here.

The problem with the warriors here is that they do not form into full ranks of 5 (The minimum to claim rank bonus). This is GW's fault for still selling boxes of 16. You could just keep it like this and have the extra man there. It's a not a huge problem.

The 16 strong unit of crossbows is a waste. You need to either stand on a hill (you have to count a hill being there) or you have to deploy 16 wide to get full shots. This is unwieldy to say the least. Drop it down to 10 strong and remove the command (the standard is a victory points liability) since they will probably lose any combat that they fight in.

The knights are fine but would do better with a noble.

At this points level, the black guard are expensive and not good at all. At 12 strong, I assume they will be 6 wide. With only 1 rank, They will be hard pressed to gain the 3 kills to overcome the static combat resolution of most infantry units. The banner of murder would be better placed on the knights if at all. A bolt thrower would be a better choice.

The only real way to learn is to play. Good luck.
 

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stupidity just kicked in!
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List1: I'm going to give about the same advice as swntzu did. It is a defensive army (bait charge tactic I assume) build so I'd keep the big block with spears. I'd stick a noble with the spears as he will ad one more to their Ld and they'll need that for break tests, the knights don't need the extra hitting power and wont benifit from the nobles ld. Note for you on sorcs, either go massive amount of magic or none at all. I've played 1k games with basically 3 sorcs and 3 DR units, hit and run magic ftw!. Always have chillwind with 2 sorc (3 for the best survival but it really depends on what magic you get), chill their shooters and focus fire on one unit at a time. It's hard but fun, when DE magic works it's devastating. Back on topic. like swntzu said, swap the rxb warriors with anther DR unit and a boltthrower. If there are extra points give the cold one knights a warbanner. oh almost forgot for DRs only musician are needed the other command units are most often just point sinks.

List 2: hm... hard. This is not a very good setup but cool themed. I'll try and give you good advice. I don't have the army book anywhere near me atm so maybe the pts will be a bit off. First you black guards are the key to this builds survival so make them survive! Warbanner is a very cheap way on doing that,especially when it's about expensive models. And you're only 3 models away from another rank! I'd swap the warrior units for 2 smaler corsair units to flank and to use as arrow shield for the black guards and another 5 DRs mostly to be able to zone your opponent. Instead of knights I'd use chariots for this build. 2 chariots and swap the sorc with 2 vanilla nobles on each one of the chariots. If my memory serves me right ths should be about 1000pts. If it ends up more then diss one noble or make the corsairs as one unit. If it turnes out to be less then feel free to add magic items on the nobles or make one corsairs unit into executioners.

On foot builds nobles at these points I mostly use a vanilla noble with enchanted shield or armour of darkness? (magic armour that gives 2+ sv... forgot its name) and great weapon.
Mounted I'd go for just vanilla enchanted shield and lance.
you can also use enchanted shield and sword of might but usually the extra points for sword of might is better used elsewhere.

good luck

edited my comment on list 2 a bit as I found an error.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I've thought about what you have said and come up with this. It's a fast army with the intention lock the enemy in combat with the large block with warriors and then break the enemy with the heavy charge from the knights and chariots

Char
Noble - heavy armor, talisman of protection, seagragon cloak, crimson death, riding 1 of the chariots - 130 pt

Core
20 Warriors - full command, shield - 185 pt
12 Warriors - musician, RxB - 137 pt
5 Dark riders - musician, RxB - 127 pt

Special
6 Cold One knights - full command - 219 pt
2 Chariots - spear - 194 pt

tot: 992 pt
 

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Master of the Crab Women
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I've thought about what you have said and come up with this. It's a fast army with the intention lock the enemy in combat with the large block with warriors and then break the enemy with the heavy charge from the knights and chariots

Char
Noble - heavy armor, talisman of protection, seagragon cloak, crimson death, riding 1 of the chariots - 130 pt

Core
20 Warriors - full command, shield - 185 pt
12 Warriors - musician, RxB - 137 pt
5 Dark riders - musician, RxB - 127 pt

Special
6 Cold One knights - full command - 219 pt
2 Chariots - spear - 194 pt

tot: 992 pt
This is pretty good although personally I would swap your crossbows for another units of dark riders with crossbows.

The talisman of protection on your lord. Is it worth it? A 6+ save really isn't that great for th amount it costs. Other wise the list is fine as it is.
 

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stupidity just kicked in!
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812 Posts
I've thought about what you have said and come up with this. It's a fast army with the intention lock the enemy in combat with the large block with warriors and then break the enemy with the heavy charge from the knights and chariots

Char
Noble - heavy armor, talisman of protection, seagragon cloak, crimson death, riding 1 of the chariots - 130 pt

Core
20 Warriors - full command, shield - 185 pt
12 Warriors - musician, RxB - 137 pt
5 Dark riders - musician, RxB - 127 pt

Special
6 Cold One knights - full command - 219 pt
2 Chariots - spear - 194 pt

tot: 992 pt
The list is ok. But you have to figure out the purpose of every unit though! Because dark elves won't preform well if not every piece falls into place. For example your noble, he have a "talsiman of protection" and the "crimson death" and rides a chariot. For one if you opt for a ward save then make sure that either you're facing someone that neglects your normal save, like other characters with magic items or just someone with really high strength. If it is the first then ok use a ward save (but for the love of god why 6+!?), if it is the later then I'd just use a better normal save as there are no limit on how good normal saves can be. For example HA + SDC + Enhanced Shield + Cold One = 0+ save (-1+ when including "hand weapon + shield bonus" or vs shooting), even if you get hit by a S7 attack you would still save on 4+ and that would be much better than a 6+ ward save. When riding a chariot you have to understand the purpose of the chariot. So why is the chariot so great? It's because of impact hits, and you only get impact hits on the turn you charge. So in other words chariots will have a difficult time to win combats if they don't break the enemy on the charge. Knowing this you should know that the "crimson death" would be a bad choice for the noble as the chances of him alone winning combat against whatever you get stuck on aren't going to be that great. Why not give him a lance instead as it will fulfill his purpose with less pts. So if you tool your noble with (HA + SDC + Enhanced Shield + lance) and put him on a chariot then he would be about 35pts less and IMO more effective than before.
Unless there are great spots to place your rxb warriors then it will most likely be only about 5-6 models shooting anyway so unless you're going to shoot at a bunch of naked models then I'd suggest a boltthrower. I'd not get another dark rider unit as you already have four flanking units you certainly won't need another one. I'd also just have 5 cold one knights as 6 is a bit to had to maneuver IMO. You should now have about 100pts. You have numerous of options to choose from:
* go for another noble on the other chariot
* get rid of one warriors and the unit champion to make room for a BSB with warbanner, that will make your warriors unit survive a lot longer.
* get another boltthrower, your shooting becomes a concern for your opponent
* if expecting lots of magic make a scroll mage (will need to remove unit champions to make room for that)
* if you're into monsters you can swap the boltthrower for a hydra.

If it were me I'd probably either use the BSB or the Hydra. The bsb will make the warriors hold much better and you need them to hold as it is their purpose. The hydra will take a lot of focus away from your other models and thus you can control the battlefield better AND you will have two fronts instead of just one. With that amount of flanking units you can most certainly provide good flanking to both the hydra and the warrior unit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
I didnt know you could have a negative armour save so I just took the talisman to get closer to 1k pt. I already have the 2 warriors units and nothing else so I will probably stick to them 'till I got more units but I'll try to squize in a bolt thrower. Do you have any suggestion how to convert mobels into a nobel with lance,shield, SDC etc which is able to ride a chariot?

I was thinking of using the 2 chariots as 1 unit for less stupidity tests. I'm not rly into monsters so would it be possible to break a unit with the 2 chariots charging the front of a unit and the dark riders flanking it or would it be too week?
 

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stupidity just kicked in!
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I didnt know you could have a negative armour save so I just took the talisman to get closer to 1k pt. I already have the 2 warriors units and nothing else so I will probably stick to them 'till I got more units but I'll try to squize in a bolt thrower. Do you have any suggestion how to convert mobels into a nobel with lance,shield, SDC etc which is able to ride a chariot?

I was thinking of using the 2 chariots as 1 unit for less stupidity tests. I'm not rly into monsters so would it be possible to break a unit with the 2 chariots charging the front of a unit and the dark riders flanking it or would it be too week?
Yes you can have negative save. But remember you still have to roll for it and 1s will still fail. You can have 7+ ti hit as well... look in the rule book.

For a noble in chariot I'd take a black guard champion and use a knight lance and shield. Greenstuff the missing arm parts. For the sea dragon cloak either put some greenstuf and draw the scales with a nail or just use malus darkblades sea dragon cloak.

Chariots can't be in units (only the TK chariots can form units). So you have to roll two tests, but if the other chariot are close to your noble it will benefit from "generals leadership" rule and use the nobles Ld instead of it owns.
 

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Master of the Crab Women
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If I'm not missunderstanding the rule changes for dark elf you can take 2 dark elf chariots as 1 special choise
http://uk.games-workshop.com/news/errata/assets/wh/derevision.pdf

Anyhow, would 2 chariots charging together with dark riders flanking the unit be enought in most chases to break an enemy?
Yes you can take 2 chariots in one special slot. This however does not mean that they operate as a single unit. They are still to all intents and purposes separate units.

2 chariots is great especially with the huge punch of the dark elf chariots. This lessens the effects of stupidity too.

As a sidenote, a ward save can be taken after an armour save. This is why ward saves are so expensive. This is unlike 40k.
 

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stupidity just kicked in!
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As a sidenote, a ward save can be taken after an armour save. This is why ward saves are so expensive. This is unlike 40k.
yeah I know. I was just pointing out that when hit by a S7 attack I'd rather take one 4+ save than two 6+ saves. Don't you think a 0+ save is better than a 2+/6+ save in most of the cases?
 

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Master of the Crab Women
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yeah I know. I was just pointing out that when hit by a S7 attack I'd rather take one 4+ save than two 6+ saves. Don't you think a 0+ save is better than a 2+/6+ save in most of the cases?
I think that the talisman of protection is a waste of points. I'm not trying to argue with you.
 

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Master of the Crab Women
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no its not true it states in the rule book that u cant have a better save then 1+
This is incorrect and I shall now back up my point:

I will quote both the rulebook and a recent FAQ that both permit armour saves which are better than 1+.

The second sentence of the "Maximum Save" section on page 30 states that you can "improvethe wearer's armour save to 1+or even less!". The key part here is "even less".

A counter argument here is that the sentence mentions "magic armour" but it refers to "magic armour" as "one way" to improve your save to better that 1+.

I also refer to second question on the "Heroes of Ulthuan" section where Tyrion has a 0+ armour save. This is completely concrete.

In conclusion his means that you can indeed gain an armour save of better than through either mundane, magical or a combination of both means.
 
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