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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok here goes...

HQ
Shas'O with Airbursting, burst cannon, and sheild generator hard wired multi tracker 128

Elites
Shas'vre with twin-linked flamers and sheild generator 61
Shas'vre with twin-linked flamers and Iridium Armou 61
3 Stealth Suits with Shas'vre and fusion blaster102

Troops
8 Fire warriors 80
8 Fire warriors 80

Heavy Support
Hammerhead with Railgun and Smart Missile System 160
Hammerhead with Railgun and Smart Missile System 160
Hammerhead with Railgun and Smart Missile System 160
 

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Alternate 1,000pt List

Wow...I wrote like, several pages worth of critique on this army and then I clicked one wrong button and it all vanished...so instead I'll just be submitting the variant army list I mocked up for you to see what you think about it. The all-encompassing thought was to make this army more mobile, more capable of challenging and securing objectives and more balanced as far as troop versus armament killing. Also this list is self-sufficient, meaning that each unit can do its job without the assistance of another, like deep strikers relying on pathfinders to land them, or mechs and tanks relying too heavily on markerlights to score hits.

HQ:
Shas'El with Missile Pod and Burst Cannon, Targeting Array, Hard-wired Multi-tracker. 85pts
2xShas'Vre with Missile Pod and Burst Cannon, Targeting Array, Hard-wired Multi-tracker, Hard-wired Drone Controller, Two Gun Drones. 180pts

Elites:
None

Troops:
12 Fire Warriors with Shas'Ui and Bonding Knife. 135pts

12 Kroot and 6 Kroot Hounds with Shaper and Saves. 158pts

Devilfish (for Fire Warriors). 80pts

Fast Attack:
3 Piranhas (can be fielded together or separately) with targeting array and fusion blaster. 210pts

Heavy Support:
Hammerhead with Railgun and Two Burst Cannons. 150pts

Total Cost: 998pts
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
looks pretty safe. but on the flip side, pretty standard to play. I enjoy the idea of my opponent looking down the barrels of three hammerheads in a 1000pts tornament. wish i could have read your critique. could be really useful. If you can sum up the effort to rewrite it. it would be much appreciated!
 

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I'm glad you liked my list. I know it's "safe" maybe even "standard" fare, but in the end if it ain't broke, don't fix it! I'm not sure I can tell you much more about strategem than you already know, I'm not sure how new you are to the game. I've been playing for two Tau codexes now, but I'm not the most experienced, nor am I a tournament officianado, but I can tell you what I've seen work and what I've read about others fielding successfully.

HQ: This is always an important part of any army and in a small points list you don't have the luxury of a special character like Farsight or Shadowsun, so we're "stuck" with the XV8 commander and the Aun. When I was evaluating your list I was trying to tailor something similar to what seemed to be your play style while being a bit more well rounded. In the case of your HQ I recommend sticking with your Mech, however paying 25 extra points for a Shas'O is hardly ever worth it unless your tailoring it for close combat. So I started with the Shas'El, and seeing as how you already had two Shas'Vre in your army, I thought, why not invite them to the party as a bodyguard? That way they can both benefit from the wargear without having to be separate units.

Mechs can be powerful stand-alone battle stations, but usually they will die quickly unless outfitted properly. A shield generator is a decent choice as it gives you a constant 50% chance of sluffing off hits, but a drone gives you a similar chance and an extra wound. NEVER take Iridium Armour without a pair of Shield Drones, as the synnergy is just too good to pass up and is the only thing that makes it worth sacrificing that definite extra move the jump packs afford you. And the mech that takes Iridium should be a monat, never in a retinue as it will slow it's companions.

Then came the weaponry, I like the "Fire Storm" configuration. And instead of pouring my heart out about it, I'll let someone else do my dirty work Advanced Tau Tactica :: View topic - [Tactica] Fire Storm. The one difference I made is utilizing targeting arrays in addition to the multi-tracker, because you can spare the points for 2 BS 4 and one BS 5 models.

Elites/Fast Atttack: Obviously this section took a hit. Statistically Pirahnas out perform stealth for the points when it comes to taking down tanks. With their higher balistic skill with a targeting array and the ability for all units in the squad, not just 1 in 3 to have Fusion Blasters, it's hard to argue against it. Oh and did I mention the 4+ cover save every time they move full out, which is an astonishing 24" because they are fast skimmers? Talk about beelining toward tanks! Oh, and if you're giddy to see what the face of your enemy looks like seeing 3 Hammerheads, wait till he focuses on your Hammerhead and realizes all too late that it was your Pirahnas he should have been fearing, that's a hilarious face!

Troops: Nothing is wrong with fielding fire warriors. You have to field at least one. But if you're going to do it than you had best do it in style and a Devilfish is the best way to do that. Honestly I don't run Fire Warriors without an Aun attatched to them or a Devilfish carting them around, it's simply a waste to do otherwise, especially when Kroot are cheaper and often more effective units. The Kroot are just, awesome. Trust me. If you look at them, line for line they are the equal of the fire warriors save the Armor Save and the weapon they use. But their weapon is much more effective in close combat and it's still rapid fire, so you can get 24 shots out at 12" range, a feat that is made much easier because of the proximity to the enemy afforded by the Infiltrate special rules. Plus if you can hide them in a forest they have a 3+ save, that's MEq right there! 5th edition has made troops much more valuable and two 8 member squads with no frills just isn't going to cut it anymore.

Heavy Support: This is the land of the Broadside and the Hammerhead. You like the impressive look of a Hammerhead, I like it's awe inspiring Railgun. On this we certainly agree. The necessity for 3 in a single army, especially one under 1,000pts is arguable though. You're talking about 1/2 of all of your points going into machines that can only fire once a round, and you've got no markerlights in your army to make that munition more likely to land on it's target. Ideally it's always better to have 2 tanks in an army, that way the enemy can't just focus on one and pin it down (BTW; you can possibly achieve this by substituting two Broadsides with ASSs for the Hammerhead). But in the design I recommended you have 5 tasty targets for your enemy to consider and he's going to find his firepower spread too thin to address them all which will give your Pirahnas, Devilfish and Hammerhead all adequate time to do their part in your grand scheme of things.

As an over-arching critique, I found your list too condensed points wise and too polarized in utilization. It fielded too many points on models designed simply for tank busting, or simply for infantry killing. In a game that is becoming more troop-centric you can't be spending 1/2 of your points on Heavy Support if it means sacrificing the utility of your troops. Fire Warriors may not be Marines, but they should never be an afterthought. Your HQ is precious, protect him, his unit had 4 wounds, now it has 11. Your mechs needn't worry about killing troops up close only to be sacrificed to assault the next round, instead they should be living in the lap of luxury, just within range to deliver 5 pounding attacks per model and just out of rapid-fire and assault range for the enemy's next turn.

In the end my word is far from final and I'm sure that there are tournament players on this forum, especially those enamored of the "Fire Knife" and "Mechanized Tau" armies that will disagree with me. Nevertheless this is from my perspective a well balanced army, suitable for play in all scenarios and against all enemies without becoming too generalized to be effective in specific pursuits.

Regards,

~Kryos
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Wow. That was an amazing post! Using a lot of your comments and the comments of the people over at Dakka Dakka, I have come up with a new list. Again that was much appreciated and it has helped beyond all means. thank you.

Heres the new list.

TAU;

-HQ
Shas'el with cyclic ion blaster, airbursting fragmentation launcher, targeting array, Stimulant Injector,2x Shield Drone multi tracker.

Bodyguard
Shas'vre twin linked flamer, missile pod, multitracker

-Elites
none

-Troops
6 Fire warrior
6 Fire warrior

-Fast Attack
6 pathfinders with devilfish
3 Piranhas with targeting array and fusion blaster and target lock (for the fusion blaster one).



-Heavy Support

Hammerhead Gunship with Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption pod, Flechette Dischargers, Target Lock

Hammerhead Gunship with Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption pod, Flechette Dischargers, Target Lock


Kept the leader setup as 've used it before (cyclic rips apart termies and you always need another template!
Any better?
 

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"Any better?" - Sorta.

I'm concerned with the amount of superfluous gear you're throwing at some of your units, especially because it is taking points away from other units that could immensely benefit from them. Also, you upped your troop choice by merely 2 models, 18 if you include pathfinders with fire warriors as opposed to the 16 you had before. I'm glad you saw fit to include the piranhas, but you chose not to give all of them fusion blasters, which is sacrificing a lot of power for very few points and you needn't use a target lock if you field the piranhas as monats rather than one unit. Pathfinders are always nice because of the re-roll for scatter when deep-striking and the markerlights, but by taking them you've taken up a fast attack slot possibly better utilized by keeping the piranhas separate.

In keeping with what I'm seeing as your preferences and play style, might I suggest another list? This one a bit more of a compromise between what you seem to want and what I think is practical.

-HQ
Shas'El with Burst Cannon and Fusion Blaster, Targeting Array, Hard-wired Multi-tracker, Hard-wired Drone Controller, 2xShield Drones, Iridium Armor. 135pts

-Elites
Shas'Vre with Twin-linked Flamers, Drone Controller, 2xGun Drones. 61pts
Shas'Vre with Twin-linked Flamers, Drone Controller, 2xGun Drones. 61pts

-Troops
8 Fire Warriors. 80pts
8 Fire Warriors. 80pts

-Fast Attack
8 Pathfinders with Devilfish. 176pts
Piranha with Fusion Blaster and Targeting Array. 70pts
Piranha with Fusion Blaster and Targeting Array. 70pts

-Heavy Support
Hammerhead with Railgun and Burst Cannons. 150pts
Shas'Ui Broadside with Railgun and Smart Missile System and Advanced Stabilization System, Hard-wired Multi-tracker, Hard-wired Drone Controller, 2xShield Drones. 115pts

-Total
998pts

Thoughts about this list:

-A Hammerhead's blast is much more powerful than a Crisis' will ever be.
-If you want to be able to take out TEq, then don't worry about your 1/6 chance of AP 1, instead go with the sure fire thing, plus Str 8 means it will cause instant death.
-Substituting a Broadside for a Hammerhead, while sacrificing the extra template actually increases fire power with the Smart Missile system while maximizing points.
-The Piranhas can serve as Monats, but you can only take two if you wish to take a Pathfinder squad, which I wholeheartedly support, so go for it!
-You needed more troops, I resisted the urge to add in Kroot or increase the point values of your retinues with Shas'ui and Bonding Knives in favor of just adding 2 models per unit.
-I put back in your Elite Monats, but added in the more practical gun drones to absorb some damage while attempting to pin which could save your ass in close combat range with the flamers.
-I went ahead and upped the ante on your HQ making him a bit more robust not only in offense, but in defense because his new effective range is 18" and with the Iridium his mobility is limited a bit, but Shield Drones with a 2+ normal and 4+ invulnerable save more than make up for it.

I hope you find these changes to be helpful, while staying true to your vision of your army. Because in the end you can crunch all the numbers you want, but if you aren't playing the army you want to, no number of victories will satisfy you if you're doing it with a configuration you hate.

Regards,

~Kryos
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thats awesome!

Contains my elements but is more practical + contains all the units I already have! btw what would I have to do to convert some fire warrors into pathfinders? (the normal ones i mean, not the rail rifle ones)
 

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Here is my critique:

1. in 1000 pt. lists an A.F.P isnt the best choice, id take a plasma rifle
2. id take the iridium off the torch squad, its supposed to be a cheap kamikaze bomb squad, and that will mostly just slow him down
3. lose the sheild gen too
4. maybe some d-fish for the fire warriors, if you can find the space
5. replace a hammerhead with a couple of broadsides, really effective and twin-linked
6. NEVER take your hammerheads without disruption pods, really the most useful vehicle upgrade in the army.

thats it.
 

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Well Pete, thanks for letting me help you out with your army. I'm glad we found a list that utilizes all of your existing units to their maximum potential! You'll have to tell me how the list works out for you once you've fielded it a few times. I think I'll be using some of these units in my own army I like them so much.

As for modeling, use the pulse carbines that are in your fire warrior sprue. Remove the pauldron or simply don't put it on, then take a knife to the armor pads on the knees and thighs as the pathfinders don't have them. Use green stuff to model up some fabric texture where the pads have been removed. That's it really, they aren't all that different from standard fire warriors.

Regards,

~Kryos
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@kryos thank you so much mate. The tournament is at the end of march so plenty of converting to do before then. I'll let you know how it goes.

btw slight error in posting using the points you posted the two elites are teamleaders. can i drop this to make room for the disruption pod? or will that prevent me from having the drone controller?

@Blasterdude3

Using kryos's list
1. in 1000 pt. lists an A.F.P isnt the best choice, id take a plasma rifle (already adressed)
2. id take the iridium off the torch squad, its supposed to be a cheap kamikaze bomb squad, and that will mostly just slow him down (again already done)
3. lose the sheild gen too (same again)
4. maybe some d-fish for the fire warriors, if you can find the space (possibly but their planning on using the pathfinders and 80 pts is a lot to find)
5. replace a hammerhead with a couple of broadsides, really effective and twin-linked (Already done)
6. NEVER take your hammerheads without disruption pods, really the most useful vehicle upgrade in the army. ( Of course! I didnt notice that before so a little tweaking is needed, unless of course you misposted kryos?)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
OK so final list...

-HQ
Shas'El with Burst Cannon and Fusion Blaster, Targeting Array, Hard-wired Multi-tracker, Hard-wired Drone Controller, 2xShield Drones, Iridium Armor. 135pts

-Elites
Crisis with Twin-linked Flamers, Drone Controller, 2xGun Drones. 51pts
Crisis with Twin-linked Flamers, Drone Controller, 2xGun Drones. 51pts

-Troops
8 Fire Warriors. 80pts
11 kroot carnivores 77pts

-Fast Attack
8 Pathfinders with Devilfish with disruption pod . 181pts
Piranha with Fusion Blaster and Targeting Array. 70pts
Piranha with Fusion Blaster and Targeting Array. 70pts

-Heavy Support
Hammerhead with Railgun and Burst Cannons and disruption pod, target lock and multi tracker. 170pts
Shas'Ui Broadside with Railgun and Smart Missile System and Advanced Stabilization System, Hard-wired Multi-tracker, Hard-wired Drone Controller, 2xShield Drones. 115pts

-Total
1000pts
 

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How silly of me! I was still counting the Monats as Shas'Vre but you really only need them to be Shas'Ui. They do have to be team leaders because even though you can take the Drone Controller as a Support system you can't take drones without access to the wargear list (I know that makes little to no sense, but I didn't make the rules.). That makes each of your Mechs only 56pts as Shas'Ui team leaders. That gives you 10 extra points to play with and you can most certainly spend 5 of them on your Hammerhead for the disruption pod! While you're at it you might as well give a pod to your Devilfish as well!

-HQ
Shas'El with Burst Cannon and Fusion Blaster, Targeting Array, Hard-wired Multi-tracker, Hard-wired Drone Controller, 2xShield Drones, Iridium Armor. 135pts

-Elites
Shas'Ui Team Leader with Twin-linked Flamers, Drone Controller, 2xGun Drones. 56pts
Shas'Ui Team Leader with Twin-linked Flamers, Drone Controller, 2xGun Drones. 56pts

-Troops
8 Fire Warriors. 80pts
11 Kroot. 77pts

-Fast Attack
8 Pathfinders with Devilfish and Disruption Pod. 181pts
Piranha with Fusion Blaster and Targeting Array. 70pts
Piranha with Fusion Blaster and Targeting Array. 70pts

-Heavy Support
Hammerhead with Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pod and Target Lock. 160pts
Shas'Ui Broadside with Railgun and Smart Missile System and Advanced Stabilization System, Hard-wired Multi-tracker, Hard-wired Drone Controller, 2xShield Drones. 115pts

New Army Total: 1,000pts

Regards,

~Kryos

P.S. I love that you added back in the Kroot, I think you'll be pleased with them. Between my miscalculation and the wiggle room given by your Kroot choice I think you'll like the flow of the army a lot more. It's always good to be able to better protect your vehicles AND make one of them just a little meaner with multiple targets. Do post pictures of the conversions and let me know how it works out for you, I have faith!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks very much. I have a blog Spikey Bitz and so all my pictures are there. I'll certainly put them here as well though.

On a slightly related matter. How should I play kroot? as an assualt protector and laying down suppresing fire, or infiltrate them to contest objectives, or to attack devestator squads or what? I've rarely used them so I have no idea!
 

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Nice Blog! I usually infiltrate the Kroot as close to an objective as possible, but always in cover, they have no saves otherwise. They have 11 shots at 24" and 22 shots at 12" and infiltrate allows you to get 12"-18" away from the enemy depending on line of sight. Their firepower is comparable to a fire warrior's but reme,ber though their weapon may not be as strong or ranged, but in close combat they grant an extra attack. So when it's time to come out of hiding do so in a big way, move, rapid fire, then assault, you'll have 3 attack per model!

Regards,

~Kryos
 

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A quick addendum to a mistatement I made earlier. The Fusion Blaster's range is only 12" not 18"...which makes iridium sorta dicey unless you are willing to get into close combat. A quick fix here would be to replace the Fusion Blaster with a Plasma Rifle, Str 6 AP 2 for a few more points...but it means making sacrifices elsewhere, like loosing a Kroot or something.

Regards,

~Kryos
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok so I've made a few changes.

Taken off one kroot and the flechette discharger on the hammerhead.

Replaced the fusion blaster with plama rifle, and added disruption pods to the pirahnas.
 

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Piranhas don't necessarily need disruption pods if you can use the points elsewhere. I mean, any time you move them full out they have a 4+ cover save. But yeah, all looks well!
 
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