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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok just had to post this list as last night i won 2 games back to back. Somthing i have never done before, so far i have won more than i have lost with this army.

HQ

Canoness
Blessed weapon, Plasma pistol, Cloak, Jump pack, melta bombs, Book 140pts 2 Faith

Canoness
Power weapon, Plasma pistol, Cloak, Jump pack, 110pts 2 Faith

Elite

Celestian squad
Vss with bolter and power weapon, x3 bolters 1h/flamer
Immolater, tl h/flamer 162pts 1 Faith

Troops

Battle Sister Squad
Vss Bolter power weapon, 7 bolters, 1 melta, 1 h/flamer 156pts 1 Faith

Battle Sister Squad
Vss Bolter power weapon, 7 bolters, 1 melta, 1 h/flamer 156pts 1 Faith

Heavy Support

Retributer Squad
Vss bolter, book. 4 h/bolters 134pts 1 Faith

Exorcist
Extra Armour 140pts

998 pts 8 Faith

The 2 Canoness's worked really well together, ( 6 2+ inv saves between them is awesome!) seeing off, with the aid of the Celestians a Chaplian and his jump pack friends, all 10 of them!!

I know there are some things i would have liked to have added (more bodies in the rets for example ) but the army worked really well. 8 Faith worked also very well!

Anyone got any suggestions, i will use this base for a 1500pt tourney coming up, and will provide pics once they are painted.

Thanks


 

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The Fallen
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For a tourney you are going to want another exorcist for a start, there is 140 points.
Beyond that you have decision , do you go armoured or stay infantry? if you go armoured then you want to do it accorss the board (all troops squads, probabyl an imolator for the retributors, not that they would use it) if not then I would be tempted to drop the immolator you have as it is too obvious a target for tournet armies

either way, for composition points, you need to spend 40% (600 points) on troops, you curerntly have 312, so you are looking at spending nearly 300 points there, by the time you have added the exorcist you just about spent your extra 500 points
as to what troops, either rhino mount what you have and add another squad in a rhino or add a third squad and then up the numbers in all three
 

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LO Zealot
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Based on your list I have made these comments. Remember they are still only opinions:

HQ:

I would take off the plasma pistols from both. The cannoness with the blessed weapon won't benefit from +1 attack as the weapon is two handed, it's nice to beable to make a shot before combat but I'll comment in a moment.

I see you have melta bombs in order to take out tanks but in combat chance's to hit are seriously reduced, especially with only 1 melta bomb attack. Your chances lie better in replacing the power weapon and blessed weapon with eviserators and taking out the melta bombs.
In combat because you are relying on the 2+ inv save anyway they are still quite effetcive in combat. Because their ini. isn't the greatest they tend to strike simutaniously or last so it isn't a huge loss.

Back to the pistols, if you really want them inferno pistol might work well, this is because if you seriouly want them to take out tanks you allow yourself 1 shot each which has a far higher chance of knocking it out compared to combat. But if that fails you still have the eviserators to hit the tanks. In addition, if what you intended was to take a shot before combat this is still possible, as the pistols range and charge distance are the same, the pistol is also great against big beasties (Wraithlords and tyrannid monsterious creatures).

IMO i would just stick with the eviserators and leave the melta bombs and pistols behind.

Finally since the cannonessed are both leadership 10 and they will be far off by themselves (I presume thats why you bought the jump packs) the book won't be put to good use. So I don't think it's really needed.

Elite:

Since you gave the Vss a power weapon would it not be a better idea to keep the pistol on her so she benefits from an extra attack?

It also seems that you've gone for a minimum squad of five. My personal preferance would be to max out the squad so it makes faith points a little easier to do as well as increase their killing potential and survivablity when dealing with mission objectives. You may also find if you do the "divine guidance" transport trick one flamer template may not be enough.

IMO the points here are pobably better spent on a something else when account point for point damage dealing and role on the feild.

Troops:

These are good, though I might worry about the flamers getting to actually fire when in a foot slogging unit. A longer range weapon may be better, maybe not, but it depends who you are fighting.

Heavy support:


Good here as well, only comment would be on the book. It's not needed as these are right at the back and the rest of your army is leadership 9 or better.

I would agree on another Exorcist in a torny army.

Additional:

The book does confer an unmodified leadership but once this has been confered to the squad they still have to modify it after. Eg: Cannoness confers a leadership 10 value to one of you sister squads who lost combat and is outnumbered. The sister squad uses the leadership 10 but then modifies it depending on how badly they lost. This is the correct way to do it and has been discussed before on the forums, I wrote this because its a common mistake I've noticed at my club.

It maybe an idea to use a seraphim unit to help the cannoness but this is just a preferance and really doesn't have a reason. I just think it might be a better idea than the Celestians. In addition if you bought the Vet. they will roll 3d6 for faith so it's easier to do faith than the celestians too in small squads and just as mobile.
 

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Drills baby.
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Heiromyo said:
The book does confer an unmodified leadership but once this has been confered to the squad they still have to modify it after. Eg: Cannoness confers a leadership 10 value to one of you sister squads who lost combat and is outnumbered. The sister squad uses the leadership 10 but then modifies it depending on how badly they lost. This is the correct way to do it and has been discussed before on the forums, I wrote this because its a common mistake I've noticed at my club.
Disscused at forums, yes. But GW have never confirmed it to be 'the right way to do it', at least not in any official FAQ since 4th ed was released.
 

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LO Zealot
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if you think about it, it's 5pts. The points you pay for it makes sence to play it with modifications after confering the leadership. It's just too good to not have mods for 5pts, if it were something like 15+ I'd agree, but it isn't.
 

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Drills baby.
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Heiromyo said:
if you think about it, it's 5pts. The points you pay for it makes sence to play it with modifications after confering the leadership. It's just too good to not have mods for 5pts, if it were something like 15+ I'd agree, but it isn't.
Yeah it is very true it is to cheap for what it does.
But since GW havn't stated anything else, I am still gonna use it like that.
 

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The Fallen
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I have to honest I use it like:

Canoness is within 6 inches of the squad and has the book, the sqyad uses her unmodified leadership for moral checks, ignoring all the mods tha would normally effect their moral
 

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ya thats the way most of us do it. until an faq or qna or errata comes out that ses otherwise noboddy's gonna gimp it cus it's cheap the day i do that is the day a marine player goes my assault cannon is too overpowered and underpriced so i won't use the rending rule. also i think we should head this off before it becomes a full on debate and the purpose of this thread is forgotten.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have been told that running 2 Canoness's is as cheesy as 3 Wraithlords.........surely not! If it is, i am sorry as i never meant to offend or create a cheesy list!
 

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The Fallen
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Zenziller said:
I have been told that running 2 Canoness's is as cheesy as 3 Wraithlords.........surely not! If it is, i am sorry as i never meant to offend or create a cheesy list!
I would not put 2 cannonesses on the same level of framage as 3 wraith lords, basically cos 1 canoness isnt as bad as 1 wraithlord, but that said I dont like 2 canonesses because of the fluff
 

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yeah they are supposed to be rare uber warriors so goin fluff wise there is simply not enough to give an order 2 for a single battle nomatter how import sed battle is, that sed fluff wise a cannoness and palaitine is very feasible (a kind of master - padawan relationship)


also screw the people who cry cheese, the day i exclude a unit cus someone cries cheese is the day assault cannons lose rending and the monolith loses the living armour rule.
 

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The Fallen
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Cannoness and Palantine works fluff wise

I said the same thing myself when they stopped shuriken catpults from being 24inch 2 shot following fire weapons, but still waiting
 

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Drills baby.
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Cheredanine said:
I said the same thing myself when they stopped shuriken catpults from being 24inch 2 shot following fire weapons, but still waiting
Didn't the catapults have 24" in 2ed?
I would only use 2 Canonesses if the battle was on real, epic scale (like more then 5000pts on each side) and then only if I contributed at least half of the points to the battle.
 

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The Fallen
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catapults, orriginally got 2 shots (and yo ucould move) up to 24 inches, if either hit, you got to shoot again, ad infinitum (old following fire rules) at Str4, and -2 to your opponents save dice, in the days when marines had 4+ saves -ammassed shuriken catapult fire was a thing of beauty to behold (but only from the right vantage point)
 

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Drills baby.
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Cheredanine said:
catapults, orriginally got 2 shots (and yo ucould move) up to 24 inches, if either hit, you got to shoot again, ad infinitum (old following fire rules) at Str4, and -2 to your opponents save dice, in the days when marines had 4+ saves -ammassed shuriken catapult fire was a thing of beauty to behold (but only from the right vantage point)

Yeah I know that, my pal got the old 'des. My mind forgot about that part though :rolleyes:
 

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Zenziller said:
Ok just had to post this list as last night i won 2 games back to back. Somthing i have never done before, so far i have won more than i have lost with this army.

HQ

Canoness
Blessed weapon, Plasma pistol, Cloak, Jump pack, melta bombs, Book 140pts 2 Faith

Canoness
Power weapon, Plasma pistol, Cloak, Jump pack, 110pts 2 Faith
As I said on t'other board, I run twin Canoness' myself in 99% of circumstances (although admittedly I play 1500 pts rater than 1000). I prefer to run them with just the cloak, jumppack, and Eviscerator though - the reasoning behind that choice is that S6+2D6 will crack the side/rear armour of most tanks (and using the +2 strength act of faith will allow you to penetrate AV14 easily) easily whereas S3 or S5 + D6 doesn't. The Witch Hunters list overall, and the Sisters of Battle especially, lack anti-tank power. Jump-packing Canoness' are awesome althuogh I try to avid relying on the 2+ save too often - I've had canoness killed by Gretchin in the past and it only takes 3 1s to come up (which will happen on average with every 18 saves you make) or the dreaded 1 on an insta-kill wound.
Elite

Celestian squad
Vss with bolter and power weapon, x3 bolters 1h/flamer
Immolater, tl h/flamer 162pts 1 Faith
I don't use Celestians - they cost 3 points more than basic Sister but the improved stats aren't worth it. And I'll re-iterate from the other board - that Immy just begs to be blown up, leaving the girls stranded. With such a small unit any dedicated small-arms fire will force enough saves to make you fail them and it's bye bye 162pts without them ever seeing action.
Troops

Battle Sister Squad
Vss Bolter power weapon, 7 bolters, 1 melta, 1 h/flamer 156pts 1 Faith

Battle Sister Squad
Vss Bolter power weapon, 7 bolters, 1 melta, 1 h/flamer 156pts 1 Faith
A bit short on numbers for my liking, but then it is only 1000pts after all so that's to be expected. I don't take any special weapons on the Sisters as they subtract from the basic points efficiency of the models - 11pt for BS4 Bolter-armed, Power-armoured humans is the most cost effective short-range quad in the game. The fact that you can get up to 20 of them in a unit is their second advantage over most shooting-based squads who tend to be limited to 10 or 12 models per squad.
Heavy Support

Retributer Squad
Vss bolter, book. 4 h/bolters 134pts 1 Faith
Rets are always nice, although again when going up in points you should seriously consider adding extra girls to the unit. As your only long-range firepower unit they'll attract attention and you'll want some ablative wounds to remove before you take away HBs. Also larger numbers makes Divine Guidance more possible.
Exorcist
Extra Armour 140pts

998 pts 8 Faith
Can't argue with The Exorcist, it puts out serious firepower when it works (of course, sometimes all you get is 1s and 2s and then someone blows up your tank.

Overall to boost the list to 1500pts I'd ditch the Seraphim, re-jig the Canoness' equipment, boost number in the Sisters squads (and buy a third squad), add extra girls to the Rets and take a second Evis and a small squad of Seraphim.

Alternatively go completely mechanised - drop the Celestians, add a Sisters squads in Rhino, buy Rhinos for your current squads, make it 3xExorcists.

------------------------------

Now, I won't suggest you actually use the following lists because they are nasty, but the most powerful 1500pt Sisters armies are:

Twin Canoness w/BP, Evis, Cloak, Jump pack
Elite Inqui w/Bolter
Callidus
2xSisters squads in rhinos
3xExorcists
3x6 Seraphim w/2xtwin hand flamers

OR

Twin Canoness w/BP, Evis, Cloak, Jump pack
Elite Inqui w/Bolter
Callidus
3x16 Sisters w/Eviscerator (no other upgrades)
3x6 ISTs w/twin plasma
8 Seraphim w/2xTwin Hand Flamers, VSS w/Eviscerator and Brazier.

The first makes life hard for your opponent as the Sisters squads can basically hide in their Rhinos until the last couple turns when they rush out to grab objectives, the Canoness, Assassin, and Seraphim will always kill well over their points cost, and the Exorcists will get destroyed but you'll get at least 5D6 worth of shots off first which is enough to tear up all his armour/his termies/waste his Demon Prince/etc. Don't expect to make any friends running that list.

The second is based on the numbers game - you again have the Canoness and Assassin that will make life very hard for your oppoenent, but the Sisters act as an immovable object on objectives and dish uut massive firepower in the short range. Keep the Sisters squads close enough to support each other and anyone getting close will be taking 90+bolter shots at rapid fire range or half that at full range. That's enough (with DG) to decimate any Marine list going. It's also almost impossible to shift 48 powered armoured models with unmodifiable LD9 from an objective. This is combined with the min/maxed ISTs who provide:

a) A half-dozen plasma guns
b) three small scoring units
c) a forced choice on your opponent's part - if he removes the plasma guns, you Sisters are ignored. If he shoots your Sisters, well, we all know what Plasma guns do to MEQs (which are 75% of your opponents armies)
d) speedbumps/sacrificial units.

The idea of "speedbumping" is a simple one - you keep a smalland easily wiped-out squad 6" in front of your main phalanx. When the enemy assaulters (Infiltrators usually, be they Marines, Spikies, Kroot, Assassins, whatever) hit them they will wipe out all 6 models in the one assault phase. The gap of 6-to-7 inches between their models and yours ensure that they can't massacre consolidate into you and are left open to rapid-firing. If your opponent falls for it (and many do), you will lose an 80pt unit to take out their 150+ point unit. And of course if they don't charge you, you get to rapid-fire with the Plasma.

Again, the above lists will not makeyou any friends. I'm sure you saw the massive comp dings and complaints about my With Hunters army for the Pompey pillage, and that army list was nowhere near as nasty as either of those.

--------------------------

Those two lists are as close to cheese/beard/WAAC as Witch Hunters get. Anything less than that=perfectly acceptable.
 

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heh heh i disagree for an extra 3 points the celestians get to hit anythin in cc on a 3+ then give the vet a power wep and a connoness a power wep and if i want a assasin but don't want to pay for a proper =][= then i stick an elite one with power wep in their two so before ya charge ya should get 2+ flamers and about 20 normal att that hit on 3's and 12+ power wep attacks that (mostly) hit on 3's and 4's and trust me NOONE expects that kinda buttwoopage from a sister squad and on top of that in a 2000 point game for 50 points u can make most of ur squads fearless
 
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