[tanfew]

This is the 3rd variation of this list, after getting all the ideas from the last 2. ive changed it and am posting it again.


HQ

Master of sanctity Leuter
+plasma pistol
+terminator honours
+adamantine Mantle
-180

Command squad Leuter
+Fighting Company Champion
+Apothercary Donithas
+Veteran Sergeant Veritas with a powerfist
and meltabombs
+2 initiates with meltaguns
+4 initiates with CCWs and boltpistols
*rhino with extra Armor and somke launchers
-292

Brother Tomas, Champion of the emperor
+Uphold the Honour of the Emperor
-100


Troops

Crusader squad Tomas
+7 initiates with CCWs and boltpistols
+Initiate with a powerfist
+Initiate with a meltagun
*rhino with smoke launchers and extra armor
-227

Crusader squad Lazarus
+8 initiates with CCWs and boltpistols
+Initiate with powerfist
+Initiate with a meltagun
*Rhino with smoke launchers and extra armor
-243

Crusader Squad Gotchalcus
+3 initiates with bolters
+Initiate with a missle launcher
+Initiate with a plasmagun
-105

Crusader squad Heinman
+3 initiates with bolters
+Initiate with a missle launcher
+Initiate with a plasma gun
-105

Fast attack

Assault squad Austein
+7 initiates with CCWs and boltpistols
+2 initiates with flamers
+Initiate with a powerfist
-247

total- 1,499
This is loosely based on the Donian crusade, with names derived from this. All comments welcome.

 

[Manu_Forti]

hey
I havent seen the 2 previous lists you are talking about but i would be surprised if ppl told u to keep that command squad. im a fan of cmd squads but i always get told to leave them out. mainly bcoz they cost alot of points. if u do keep it perhaps consider losing the apothecary and standard bearer, keep the champion, keep the melta gun. and the 3 w/ BP & CCW.. i find that makes a good effective assult type command squad for relatively cheap points.
Use the points saved on the apoth and std bearer on whatever you want. maybe some more upgrades for ur commander. or 2 extra marines with BP & CCW for the cmd squad.
ALot of people will probably tell you to go with drop pods instead of rhino's but i have limited experience with either so ill let the others handle that issue for you.

id make the plasma pistol on the chaplain just a normal BP.. it costs less and u dont lose a wound if u roll a 1 to hit. but thats up to you.

The only other thing i noticed is the incredible lack of heavy weapons.. i know this is an assult type army but you should have more than just 2 missile launchers. if you went up against an army with any kind of armour you'll lose alot of marines trying to get close enough to use those metla's. you need afew lascannons. mounted on what exactly is up to you.. a dreadnaught. a predator. a dev squad. ?? if you have nothing to take out other tanks with good anti-tank abilities then alot of your rhino's will get popped.

 

[tanfew]

Well ppl have told me to get rid of the command squad, but the way you state it makes it very effective.i personally forgot that the Chappy makes them fearless, but the Standard bearer shouldn't of even been in there, i had actually removed him already. oops. with the apothercary gone the squad can be maxed out.. this will leave me with 15 points. what should i spend this on?

Ps: i cant take Dev. squads

 

[Manu_Forti]

use the 15 points to upgrade one of those missile launchers to a lascannon. or find another 5 points and use the 20 to give the chaplain artificer armour (gives him a 2+ save)
As i said i would consider dropping something so that you have enough points for a predator annihilator. these can cost anywhere from 130 to 160+ depending what side sponsons you give it (i would reccomend the lascannons sponson option) and what upgrades you give.. the only uprgade i would bother with is extra armour. So dropping one squad should easily cover the cost of the tank.. but its entirely up to you. If you can do enough damage in assult and wipe out everything BUT the enemies tanks then chances are it would still be a victory anyway.
but that is why i would use drop pods instead of rhino's. they are 20 points cheaper and u dont risk losing them.. drop pods will put your squad in CC straight away. and any units in CC cant be shot up by enemy tanks (or anything else) So that would be an effective way to render the opponents tanks useless if u didnt want to take tanks yourself.

happy hunting

 

[Manu_Forti]

Drop crusader squad 'Gotchalcus' and switch the 3 rhino's for drop pods, which will give you a spare 60 points.. plus the 100 from the crusader squad. that gives you (165) enough for a pred with all lascannons. and probably afew spare points.
by the way you probably only need 1 flamer in the assult squad.

good luck

 

[The Spaceman]

OK, when I look at this list I think, how will you set up, what can hurt the enemy on turn 1.

2 missile launchers! That's all.

What will the enemy see

3 AV 11 vehicles
2 small tac squads
an assault squad.

That's not exactly going to send a shiver down their spine. A shooty army will rip the vehicles to bits and then proceed to destroy the survivors.

Assuming all your assault troops get to the other side unharmed, it's only 40 men. What will they do against 150 orks or a force of say CC armed 60 marines. They are going to be out gunned and out numbers

Let's have a look at where we can add some more punch or cut some fat.

Master of sanctity Leuter
+plasma pistol
+terminator honours
+adamantine Mantle
-180

A reclusiarch with bolt pistol does the same job for about 90 points. The adamantine mantle and extra wound won't save you from a powerfist.

Command squad Leuter
+Fighting Company Champion
+Apothercary Donithas
+Veteran Sergeant Veritas with a powerfist
and meltabombs
+2 initiates with meltaguns
+4 initiates with CCWs and boltpistols
*rhino with extra Armor and somke launchers
-292

Too many upgrades here

You don't need the company champion if you have the emperors champion, Why have a powerfist + meltabombs? Medics are rarely usefull. Overall, crusader squad will do the job for 1/2 the points.

Brother Tomas, Champion of the emperor
+Uphold the Honour of the Emperor
-100

You have skimped in the place where the points can really help. +1 STR or 3+ to hit rolls are the way to go

Crusader squad Tomas
+7 initiates with CCWs and boltpistols
+Initiate with a powerfist
+Initiate with a meltagun
*rhino with smoke launchers and extra armor
-227

Crusader squad Lazarus
+8 initiates with CCWs and boltpistols
+Initiate with powerfist
+Initiate with a meltagun
*Rhino with smoke launchers and extra armor
-243

4th ED killed the Rhino rush. To make it work you need a lot of cover fire, which you dont have. You can't assault on the turn you disembark. Your men will be standing around for a turn and will either get shot to bits or assaulted by the enemy. Some neophytes would save some points here and effectively soak up a few hits.

Crusader Squad Gotchalcus
+3 initiates with bolters
+Initiate with a missle launcher
+Initiate with a plasmagun
-105

Crusader squad Heinman
+3 initiates with bolters
+Initiate with a missle launcher
+Initiate with a plasma gun
-105

I am of the view that these "mini devastator" squads do not belong in a BT army. Firstly it goes against the theme and feel for the army. Secondly it's bad tactically.

a) In most games all you will be able to fire most of the time is the 1 long range weapon. If you are lucky the opponent may place a nice target in front of them but don't count on it.

b) It costs too much for the crappy amount of firepower you get. Look at the alternatives in the 200-250 point range 3 Land speeder tornadoes, 5 Terminators with assault cannons, 2 predators, a Land Raider, 2 Dreadnaughts.

c) As mentioned before you need more men to assault. Those ten men protecting the missile launchers would tip the balance in an assault.

Fast attack

Assault squad Austein
+7 initiates with CCWs and boltpistols
+2 initiates with flamers
+Initiate with a powerfist
-247

A good choice. I would recommend Plasma pistols over flamers. The flamer has the same target profile as the bolt pistol. Adding plasma gives you a very mobile anti tank capability


OK so lets look at what a lean and mean army list would look like, based on your list

HQ
1 HQ Chaplain 100
1 Champion 125-140
Both riding in Rhinos

TROOP
3 Rhino Squads
6 Initiates 2 Neophytes 1 Meltagun 1 Powerfist

FAST
8 Assault Marines
Powerfist, 2 Plasma Pistol

After trimming the fat we get a force with almost equivalent striking power for about 1050 points. Leaving you 450 points to spend on some of the following options.

1. A second assault squad (200 pts)
2. A Terminator Squad (5 + 2AC= 140 pts)
3. A Dreadnaught + A Predator (240 pts)
4. 3 Land Speeder Tornados (240 pts)
5. 2 Small Foot Crusader Squads w meltagun + Powerfist (240 pts)
6. Infiltrating Sword Brethren. ( 8 men + Melta + Powerfist = 180)
7. A 4th rhino rush squad. (200 pts)

 

[tanfew]

Next list

Thanks for the help spaceman. Using those guidelines heres my next list.

HQ
Reclusarch
+Boltpistol
+frag grenades
-97

Emperors Champion
+Accept any challenge, no matter the odds
-140

Troops
Crusader squad 1
+7 initiates
+2 neophates
+meltagun
+powerfist
*rhino
-207

Crusader squad 2
+7 initiates
+a neophate
+meltagun
+powerfist
*rhino
-197

Crusader squad 3
+8 initiates
+2 neophates
+meltagun
+powerfist
*rhino
-223

Elites
Terminator squad
+5 terminators
+2 AC
-240

Dreadnought 1
-105

Dreadnought 2
-105

Fast attack
Assault squad
+8 initiates
+2 plasma pistols
-186

Total-1500

I was alos thinking of dropping the 2 dreads and the frag grenades from the chappy to make a 10 man infiltrating Sword Brethren squad(210 points) that'll make it 1,499 total.

Hopefully this list will be a bit better than the last one.:shifty:

 

[Everhard]

I dont like the Rhino's they will pop too easily and your initiate's become bacon in a can, and if your using them i would definitely put smokelaunchers on them. Perhaps better use droppods as suggested above. I dont think the 2 dreads will be good enough to really perform their job-> tankbusting

drop 1 and make 1 dread venerable, tankhunter with twin linked lascannon in a droppod. This one will defnitely kick some tank ass

and i dunno but perhaps some heavy support driving along your squads would be nice, perhaps a Vindicator or preditor. The opponent will have to take out this tank and will have to fire on it instead of your squads

I would rather go for assault termies in a droppod. trust me the enemy will be frustrated if the termies and venerable dread are dropped in his battleline giving you time to advance with your squads

Why not giving the reclusiarch termie honours? +1 attack is great on the chap.

 

[tanfew]

HQ
Reclusarch ( joins sword brethren)
+Boltpistol
+frag grenades
-97

Emperors Champion (joins crusader squad 1)
+Accept any challenge, no matter the odds
-140

Troops
Crusader squad 1
+7 initiates
+2 neophates
+meltagun initiate
+powerfist initiate
*drop pod
-187

Crusader squad 2
+7 initiates
+1 neophate
+meltagun initiate
+powerfist initiate
*-Drop pod
177

Crusader squad 3
+8 initiates
+2 neophates
+meltagun initiate
+powerfist initiate
*drop pod
-203

Crusader squad 4
+4 initiates
+flamer initiate
*drop pod
-116

Elites
Terminator assault squad
+5 terminators
*drop pod-230

Dreadnought
+Venerable
+lascannon
+missle launcher
*drop pod
-175

Sword Brethren squad
+5 Brethren
+powerfist Brethren
+meltagun brethren
*drop pod
-174

Total-1,499

Is an all drop-pod list like this legal? if not ill post another one

 

[Manu_Forti]

A reclusiarch with BP and frags is only 87. not 97. so youve got 11 spare points
Find and extra 4 points and either give the reclusiarch terminator honours (1 extra attack) or make it a master of sanctity (1 extra wound).

oh and yes an 'all drop-pod' list is legal. To save arguments though it would be a good idea to point out to your opponent that you will be using them. Most casual friendly games would be fine but maybe not all tournaments.
6 pods= 180 points, so if you ever decide to take them out of your list you would only need 1 squad or vehicle to make up the points.

peace