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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Daemon Prince: Mark of Khorne, D. Strength, D. Armor, D. Aura, D. Flight, D. Essence, Feel No Pain, Twin Lightning claws.

3 Obliterators

7 Khorne Berserkers: w/ bp and khornate chainaxe all w/ furious charge and riding in a rhino w/ smoke.

8 Chaos Marines: w/ bp and ccw w/ Aspiring Champ w/ pf and bp all w/ furious charge and Undivided Mark riding in a rhino w/ smoke.

8 Chaos Marines: 6 bolters and 2 plasma guns w/ Undivided Mark

6 Havocs: 2 bolters, 1 lascannon, 2 missile launchers w/ Undivided Mark

6 Havocs: 3 bolters, 3 heavy bolters and 1 auto cannon w/ Undivided Mark

Defiler: Reaper autocannon, Heavy flamer, Battle cannon, Mutated hull, smoke.

Feel free to rip it to pieces as I could use all the help I can get.

Thanks in advance to all resposes.
 

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señor brushman!
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First off; please post what units are in which section and the amount of points in each section. For example:

HQ: [pts]
-Daemon Prince: Mark of Khorne, D. Strength, D. Armor, D. Aura, D. Flight, D. Essence, Feel No Pain, Twin Lightning claws.

Troops:
-blah blah blah
etc.

This just makes things more clear and easy to read. Thanks!

Daemon Prince: Mark of Khorne, D. Strength, D. Armor, D. Aura, D. Flight, D. Essence, Feel No Pain, Twin Lightning claws
Good. I would add D. Mutation but thats just a personal preferance.

Khorne Berserkers: w/ bp and khornate chainaxe all w/ furious charge and riding in a rhino w/ smoke.

8 Chaos Marines: w/ bp and ccw w/ Aspiring Champ w/ pf and bp all w/ furious charge and Undivided Mark riding in a rhino w/ smoke.

8 Chaos Marines: 6 bolters and 2 plasma guns w/ Undivided Mark
I'd add Extra Armour to the Rhino's just for more durability.

For the 8 Chaos Space Marines you could take off the Rhino and give them Infiltration if the mission allows it. This can give you pts for extra armour on the Beserkers and Mutation on the prince. You could also consider infiltration on the 8 shooty Chaos Space Marines.

6 Havocs: 2 bolters, 1 lascannon, 2 missile launchers w/ Undivided Mark

6 Havocs: 3 bolters, 3 heavy bolters and 1 auto cannon w/ Undivided Mark
On the first Havoc squad I'd try to max out on heavy weapons available. Maybe take another Lascannon or Missle Launcher.

Defiler: Reaper autocannon, Heavy flamer, Battle cannon, Mutated hull, smoke.
I usually don't take any upgrades for my Defiler. If you took out Mutated hull or smoke you could add some of the things I mentioned earlier.

Ben
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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I'm having a little trouble seeing the focus of your army.

Joker said:
Daemon Prince: Mark of Khorne, D. Strength, D. Armor, D. Aura, D. Flight, D. Essence, Feel No Pain, Twin Lightning claws.
Things to consider dropping:

D. Armor: This upgrade is best on an h.q. with a biker, where he could turbo-boost to get a 2+inv save. However, on a statured prince D. Armor hardly ever works for the following reasons: At range, your opponent will be using lascannons and the likes, which remove the 2+ save bestowed by the armor. In c.c., if you're fighting troops, then they won't be wounding you anyways. If you're fighting against monstrous creatures or a champion w/ a power fist, then you won't get the save. In all, this upgrade won't serve you as well as it looks on paper.

Essece: Defensive overkill. Your prince has 3 wounds plus feel no pain. This is sufficient.

Twin claws: Not bad, but very expensive. Honestly, you should use these points to take D. resilience (almost compulsory on a statured prince, because it will curve out your defense against 4S models). While claws will definitely allow you to tear into your enemy, you really don't need them. Having a 6 strength & 6 attacks on the charge is ample, when you consider the cost of Twin claws- just a thought.

D. Mutation: It was mentioned in another post that you might consider this upgrade. I would advise against it, simply because you have plenty of attacks as it is. Sometimes, having too strong of a model is not good, and will equate to punching through an entire squad, and having no where to consolidate (this happens more than most people think).

Joker said:
3 Obliterators
Good


Joker said:
7 Khorne Berserkers: w/ bp and khornate chainaxe all w/ furious charge and riding in a rhino w/ smoke.
What happens if this squad comes up against a dread or a monstrous creature? While they're good in c.c., you still need an a.c. w/ a fist. The fist will ensure you a way out against larger things and also provide additional killing power.

Also, a rhino is rather expensive, and considering the frenzy of the MoK, the rhino becomes less reliable. Consider the talisman of the burning blood. While it's slower, it's still very effective and considerably cheaper.

Joker said:
8 Chaos Marines: w/ bp and ccw w/ Aspiring Champ w/ pf and bp all w/ furious charge and Undivided Mark riding in a rhino w/ smoke.
As stated by IAmAngel, infiltrate is probably the way to go.

Joker said:
8 Chaos Marines: 6 bolters and 2 plasma guns w/ Undivided Mark
Reduce the number to 7, and give them infiltrate. Yeah, I'm saying infiltrate alot, but your army just seems to lend itself to the skill. The reason for 7 over 8 is because these bolter marines are mainly there as casualties for your 2 plasma guns, and will provide adequate secondary fire power. Seven also helps to reduce the overall cost of the squad (obviously :wacko: ).

Joker said:
6 Havocs: 2 bolters, 1 lascannon, 2 missile launchers w/ Undivided Mark

6 Havocs: 3 bolters, 3 heavy bolters and 1 auto cannon w/ Undivided Mark
As mentioned earlier, keep the weapon the same in a given havoc squad. At the 1500 mark, you should be taking 4 heavy/special weapons in each of these squads. Auto-cannons w/ tank hunter are a very effective, all-around weapon. Heavy bolters are another good options. Consider taking one of each.


Joker said:
Defiler: Reaper autocannon, Heavy flamer, Battle cannon, Mutated hull, smoke.
The best upgrade for this monstrous pup is indirect fire. This upgrade provides more staying power then mutated hull, and will cause your enemy to have to go on the offensive (a very good thing, if you're playing a ranged army).
 

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señor brushman!
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Sometimes, having too strong of a model is not good, and will equate to punching through an entire squad, and having no where to consolidate (this happens more than most people think).
I don't see the reason for this. He's gonna eventually destroy the squad anyway leaving him wide open. Whats the point of delaying it. He's just gonna move his squads away from the prince anyway. Correct me if im wrong, but I don't see the point of this.

All the rest of boydgarret's information is valid, I think.

Ben
 

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IAmAngel said:
I don't see the reason for this.
This guy will charge a unit in his turn, then kill some of them though not all. During the opponents shooting phase he cannot be shot at since he is in CC.
In the opponents assaultphase he will kill the rest and be free to move in his own movement phase.

If he has too many attacks he will kill the unit he charges in the first turn of CC, then he'll be standing there with every gun in the area pointing his way.

It's the price for overkilling.
 

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señor brushman!
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This guy will charge a unit in his turn, then kill some of them though not all. During the opponents shooting phase he cannot be shot at since he is in CC.
In the opponents assaultphase he will kill the rest and be free to move in his own movement phase.

If he has too many attacks he will kill the unit he charges in the first turn of CC, then he'll be standing there with every gun in the area pointing his way.

It's the price for overkilling.
Ahh, I see, but this is not always true. Usually 5-6 attacks on the charge won't kill a whole squad, so might as well give him mutation, although I do see your point.

Ben
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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IAmAngel said:
Ahh, I see, but this is not always true. Usually 5-6 attacks on the charge won't kill a whole squad, so might as well give him mutation, although I do see your point.

Ben
Yep, that's true. Honestly, Mutation is a little expensive for what it does, when, for example, a prince with a darkblade can pay a measily 1 point extra for and additional c.c. weapon. Of course, the prince in question has claws, but even with claws, the second one is only 5 points. Fifteen points is another power fist (for the zerkers); or 2/3 of the cost to infiltrate the 8 man squad in the rhino.
There's nothing wrong with mutation, but when I look over the game mechanics that add attacks, mutation is the most expensive. There are some situations that call for a prince with mutation, only, W.E. princes, because of their added attack (10 points for the added attack), can usually go without.

Aditional c.c weapon: 1 point
Second lightning claw: 5 points
MoK: 10 points
Daemonic mutation: 15 points


To $Joker: The 8 man c.c. squad should also have melta guns (plasma maybe). For 20 points they will give your army a lot more versatility.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
boydgarrett said:
I'm having a little trouble seeing the focus of your army.
You guys gave out some really great advice and when I get home from work I plan on a complete overhaul.

This quote intrigued me the most because it deals with army building philosophy and is worth more discussion.

The purpose of the (admitedly) badly made army list above was to to get the combat squads and prince ( non-statured by the way) into combat while supporting them with heavy fire from the havocs, obliterators and defiler.

I plan on refocusing towards a 90% shooty army with one cc support squad held in check to rebuff any enemy advances.

Some people go all shooty while others go all close combat.

Do you think a good balance can be competitive?
 

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señor brushman!
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Yep, that's true. Honestly, Mutation is a little expensive for what it does, when, for example, a prince with a darkblade can pay a measily 1 point extra for and additional c.c. weapon. Of course, the prince in question has claws, but even with claws, the second one is only 5 points. Fifteen points is another power fist (for the zerkers); or 2/3 of the cost to infiltrate the 8 man squad in the rhino.
There's nothing wrong with mutation, but when I look over the game mechanics that add attacks, mutation is the most expensive. There are some situations that call for a prince with mutation, only, W.E. princes, because of their added attack (10 points for the added attack), can usually go without.

Aditional c.c weapon: 1 point
Second lightning claw: 5 points
MoK: 10 points
Daemonic mutation: 15 points
Yeah your right but its the only way to add an attack to the lord with his configuration (that I can think of).

Instead of adding mutation, take the points to add 1 more Beserker. Now you can take the free Aspiring Champion for having 8 Beserkers.
 

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señor brushman!
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I plan on refocusing towards a 90% shooty army with one cc support squad held in check to rebuff any enemy advances.

Some people go all shooty while others go all close combat.

Do you think a good balance can be competitive?
Hmm if you want to go 90% shooty, then I'd take the first 8 Chaos Space Marines that are fit for CC and make them like your second Chaos Space Marine squad.

This way, you'll have your Beserkers and Daemon Prince for CC and the rest of your army would be shooting.

And yes, I do think a good balance can be competetive, although sometimes a shooty army will out shoot your army only making your CC squads usefull, and a CC army will make only your shooty squads usefull. I think you can do it but you should focus more on one or the other which you have done.

Ben

Edit: Sorry for double posting, I didn't know that I was the last one that posted.
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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Joker said:
Some people go all shooty while others go all close combat.

Do you think a good balance can be competitive?
Like IAmAngel just said, it's very possible, but it requires a finely tuned build. Black Legion, Iron Warriors, and Emperor's Children are all good armies to make a balance between c.c. and ranged. Go ahead and post your new army configuration, and we'll see what we can do about balancing it out.

IAmAngel said:
Instead of adding mutation, take the points to add 1 more Beserker. Now you can take the free Aspiring Champion for having 8 Beserkers.
Except that he's not playing World Eaters. Black Legion doesn't benefit from the sacred number aspect. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well, the new build won't have the berserkers as the cc squad for the simple reason that they would be extremely difficult to control.

So the next build will Slaanesh elements to increase firepower. With the prince being toned back down to a lord to increase points availability.

I will have something later tonight.
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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Very good.

A few things to consider:

1- Slaanesh works well w/ Nurgle: There's a growing trend in my neck of the woods to put MoN in your troops squads w/ plasma guns and MoS in your havoc squads with blastmaster. This isn't a bad configuration, but in regards to the havocs, they are awefully expensive. An 8 man havoc squad w/ 4 autocannons w/ tank hunter and no marks at all work very well. They are cheaper than their blastmaster counterparts, once you consider the 5 points you have to spend on the MoS, in order to take the blastmaster. Also, an autocannon w/ tank hunter is superior, both for tank popping and troop killing. The major draw back is the lack of assault, but in a havoc squad this may not be a problem.

2- Bloodletters: If you're going c.c., then think about adding a squad of these pups. They tear through both marines and necron (especially the later).
 

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señor brushman!
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Except that he's not playing World Eaters. Black Legion doesn't benefit from the sacred number aspect.
Aha, I forgot (I play a Khorne army so I was used to having beserkers w/aspiring champion). Thanks for the clarification.

If you wanted more CC besides your lone lord, consider a squad of daemons. Maybe Bloodletters or Daemonittes (not sure how to spell it) could help or Raptors. Or you could keep your lone Chaos Lord for CC and just keep the rest shooty, but if you did that then you could consider Iron Warriors.

Ben
 
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