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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys, I was looking into starting to collect imperial guard. I wanted to start the army off right, while still maintaining a visual appeal.

80 Lord Commissar + carapace armor

220 10 Storm troopers + chimera
220 10 Storm troopers + chimera

Platoon
30 platoon command squad
65 10 guard + meltagun
65 10 guard + meltagun
105 3 heavy weapons teams 3x lascannon

150 10 veteran squad + plasma + flamer + chimera
150 10 veteran squad + plasma + flamer + chimera

180 3 armored sentinel 3x auto cannon
150 3 scout sentinel 3x lascannon

170 leman russ battle tank + side sponsor heavy bolters
185 leman russ demolisher + side sponsor heavy bolters

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1420

The left over points I figured could be used to equip sentinels with camo nets or add special weapons to the storm troopers. Also this army would be using all Death korps of krieg models. I was wondering if its fine to use DKoK grenadiers as storm troopers since their armor type and weapons are the same.

Thanks for the help/feedback!
 

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Oh, wow...even accounting for variations in taste, this needs work.

Lord commie is okay, most people who don't take a company command squad do it to save points, and the primaris psycher is cheaper than the commie, while offering better shooting with his lightning arc power...

Storm troopers are universally despised as being way too expensive for what they do.

Your platoon has me scratching my head. I'd give the two normal squads a heavy weapon rather than a short-ranged assault weapon...you want these boys sitting in cover so the 4+ cover save makes up for their crappy 5+ armor save...and you want that cover to be as far from the enemy as possibly to delay that sad day when they get assaulted...so you'll want to give them the weapon(s) with the longest reach and most bang for the point...and that means autocannons, and possibly grenade launchers. I'd also give the heavy weapons team autocannons. Lascannons aren't too terrible when you take three at a time, since you're getting three shots and at least one of them is likely to hit...but even on a penetrating hit, you're at the mercy of the vehicle damage table. You're much better off taking six autocannon shots, since you're going to roll more dice on the vehicle damage table that way, and therefore more likely to get a good result.

The veteran squads are a little crazy in their setup. You know they can take three special weapons, right? And they have BS4, so taking a flamer is kind of a waste of the points you spent beefing up their BS? I'd take either three meltas or three plasmas. And make sure the chimeras have heavy flamers on the hull, not heavy bolters.

The sentinels aren't bad, except that you should switch them. The armored sentinels should have the lascannons, and the scout sentinels the autocannons. The AV12 on the armored variety is actually a pretty decent armor value, so the lascannons will live long enough to get a decent number of shots. The scout sentinels will get side shots at whatever they shoot, so S7 is probably going to be plenty. At the same time, with AV10, they won't live long, so you're wasting points giving them expensive weapons. Personally, when I take sentinels, I take two squadrons of two scout sentinels, one with multilasers, and one with autocannons. The shots from a third sentinel with an autocannon or multilaser kind of go to waste most of the time, since they all have to shoot at the same target, and 4 S7 shots or 6 S6 shots is generally enough to do the job, but if you're giving them lascannons or missile launchers, of course you want three, just to ensure that you get at least one hit!

The tanks are fine, except that you shouldn't give them sponsons. The problem is that if you want to shoot the sponsons, the tank can't move. And tanks should always move. First, because the enemy isn't going to walk out in front of the battle cannon and say "shoot me", he's going to try to keep line of sight blocking terrain between you and him until he's close enough to kill the tank. Second, because if the tank doesn't move, any melee attacks against it automatically hit. If it moves, but moves less than 6", it's only hit on 4+...which is good for it being around for another turn of pieplate madness. So you shouldn't want sponsons because if you move you can't shoot them...and if they're there, you'll be tempted not to move, when it's almost always in your best interests to move at least 0.1" just as insurance against enemy melee attacks. There is also significant benefit to taking a lascannon instead of a heavy bolter as the hull weapon, since the battle cannon is likely to be shooting at targets with really tough armor saves, like space marines...a heavy bolter is useless against those, but a lascannon isn't! Also, you can legitimately shoot a battle cannon at enemy vehicles, and once again the lascannon is a better companion weapon for that duty. IF you can't spare the points for a lascannon hull mount, then by all means take a heavy flamer, it's free...and those enemies I mentioned who want to come pound you to scrap in melee combat? They don't like a heavy flamer to the face, it tends to make their day turn out badly...

To sum up:

1. Consider (not that huge a deal) a different HQ choice, either a company command squad or a psycher

2. Consider (not critical, but probably a bigger deal than the HQ) not taking stormtroopers

3. Definitely equip the platoon differently!

4. Definitely equip the veterans differently, and don't forget to put a heavy flamer, not a heavy bolter, on the chimera hulls.

5. Swop the weapons on the sentinel squadrons

6. Drop the sponsons on the tanks, and take anything other than a heavy bolter on the hull.

I was wondering if its fine to use DKoK grenadiers as storm troopers since their armor type and weapons are the same.
Absolutely!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the reply Marnepup. I agree with your suggestions, and I have modified my list:

80 Lord Commissar + carapace armor

220 10 Storm troopers + chimera /w flamer

Platoon
30 platoon command squad
55 10 guard + grenade launcher
55 10 guard + grenade launcher
75 heavy weapons squad 3x autocannon

165 10 veteran squad + 2x plasma gun + meltagun + chimera /w flamer
165 10 veteran squad + 2x plasma gun + meltagun + chimera /w flamer

210 3 armored sentinel 3x lascannon
100 2 scout sentinel 2x autocannon + camo netting

165 leman russ battle tank + lascannon
180 leman russ demolisher + lascannon

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1500

I would still like to field a storm trooper squad for their decent AP, but 10 should be enough. I also switched the sentinels around and removed one. Veteran squads and the guard now have more appropriate heavy weapons + chimeras have flamers. Lastly the tanks were given lascannons while dropping side sponsors.

I had 20 points left over so I placed camo netting on the scout sentinels to improve their survivability, but I was wondering if it could maybe be better spend on vox-casters or something.
 

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Storm troopers are universally despised as being way too expensive for what they do.
I humbly disagree. Storm Troopers are great. In fact, my 1500 point has a squad. The catch, though, is never more then 5, and always deep striking. Meltaguns or Plasma Guns to taste. Two widly different roles depending on which one you take.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I actually did a further revision and looked at some other armies in the forum. This is the list I'm now considering:

165 Company command squad + 4x plasma gun + chimera /w ml + flamer

131 6 Storm troopers + 2x plasma gun

Platoon
35 platoon command squad + flamer
55 10 guard + grenade launcher
55 10 guard + grenade launcher
75 heavy weapons squad 3x autocannon

170 10 veteran squad + 3x plasma gun + chimera /w ml + flamer
155 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun + chimera /w ml + flamer

210 3 armored sentinel 3x lascannon
100 2 scout sentinel 2x autocannon + camo netting

165 leman russ battle tank + lascannon
180 leman russ demolisher + lascannon

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1496

There is a lot of plasma guns, but I feel as though the leman russ', sentinels, and melta vet squad should be able to handle vehicles. I was considering dropping scout sentinel camo and equiping the platoon command with additional flamers.
 

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From my limited experience.

As a friendly list, this could be quite competitive. However if it's a tourney-oriented, I'd say there's some room for improvement.

I'd drop Storm troopers completely. They aren't going to help you a lot. Also one flamer on PCS is somewhat meh... camo netting is of dubious value too. I've never used it so I am not sure.

In anti-vehicle department you do lack a bit. Just one squad of melta vets and some lascannons ain't enough. Lascannons can shoot all day to AV14 achieving nothing. This means not only leaving enemy vehicle alive and kickin' but also wasting your lascannons completely instead of shooting elsewhere.

Your PCC would be better off with autocannon instead of flamers, at least thats my personal experience. Platoon squads would benefit from autocannons too.

I'd also take at least one more chimelta, probably in a place of your plasma vets.

It all depends on your local metagame ofcourse. If you don't face many armoured vehicles but MEQ with or without transports, you don't need that many meltas.

Just my thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hey, Sejanus I took your recommendations into consideration and once more altered the army list. Hopefully this will will be the final revision :)

165 Company command squad + 4x plasma gun + chimera /w ml + flamer

115 5 Storm troopers + 2x plasma gun

Platoon
50 platoon command squad + autocannon + 2x grenade launchers
65 10 guard + grenade launcher + autocannon
65 10 guard + grenade launcher + autocannon
75 heavy weapons squad 3x autocannon

155 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun + chimera /w ml + flamer
155 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun + chimera /w ml + flamer

210 3 armored sentinel 3x lascannon
100 2 scout sentinel 2x autocannon + camo netting

165 leman russ battle tank + lascannon
180 leman russ demolisher + lascannon

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1500

Let me know if this list is decent enough to be competitive. I understand there are certain tweaks for any list, but hopefully it will just be due to personal preference. Thanks for all the help everyone!
 

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The list is looking pretty ship shape to me. My comments are in blue

165 Company command squad + 4x plasma gun + chimera /w ml + flamer

115 5 Storm troopers + 2x plasma gun
I'd possibly change these to Melta guns. For a start they're cheapre and don;t kill your own men. Secondly your list could do with some decent anti-tank and there's nothign better than deep striking 2 meltaguns next to a Land raider or Vindicator. That's just me though!

Platoon
50 platoon command squad + autocannon + 2x grenade launchers
65 10 guard + grenade launcher + autocannon
65 10 guard + grenade launcher + autocannon
75 heavy weapons squad 3x autocannon
Personally I'd take a Hydra over the Heavy weapon squad. It's more durable, wont run away has a longer range and can ignore the saves skimmers get for moving fast.

155 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun + chimera /w ml + flamer
155 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun + chimera /w ml + flamer

210 3 armored sentinel 3x lascannon
Grab these boys Autocannons instead or just keep the Multi Lasers. Lascannons are just too expensive and with only BS3 you wont be hitting enough to make the cost worth while. I take 6 armoured sentinels with Lasers and they work wonders. Hunting rhinos, skimmers and putting lots of wounds on Marines and Ork units.
100 2 scout sentinel 2x autocannon + camo netting
Looks cool. You probably don;t need the netting. You'll be on the move hunting targets. Not sitting in cover hiding.

165 leman russ battle tank + lascannon
180 leman russ demolisher + lascannon
 

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I humbly disagree. Storm Troopers are great. In fact, my 1500 point has a squad. The catch, though, is never more then 5, and always deep striking. Meltaguns or Plasma Guns to taste. Two widly different roles depending on which one you take.
While I agree with keeping to 5 man squads, I think that packing these guys into a chimera takes good advantage of their scout rule. Putting a meltagun equipped unit in mid-field on turn one is a happy thing.
 

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That most certainly works as well. I deep strike my storm troopers next to a point occupied by infantry and use them to push the enemy off. Usually my opponent (hopefully) relocates to make up for the sudden loss of a squad on the back field. It lets my outflanking veterans focus on more important things then pushing infantry off points.
 

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That most certainly works as well. I deep strike my storm troopers next to a point occupied by infantry and use them to push the enemy off. Usually my opponent (hopefully) relocates to make up for the sudden loss of a squad on the back field. It lets my outflanking veterans focus on more important things then pushing infantry off points.
I suspect we have different tactical priorities. Killing my opponent's troop choices is pretty high on my to do list.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Alrighty, I'm back with yet a further revision of my force. I think its fairly balanced at this point in that the abundance of autocannons gives me the option of taking out light vehicles or hitting infantry hard. There should also be enough meltas at this point to make mechanized forces more manageable.

185 Company command squad + 4x plasma gun + carapace armour + chimera /w ml + flamer

105 5 Storm troopers + 2x meltagun

Platoon
50 platoon command squad + autocannon + 2x grenade launchers
65 10 guard + grenade launcher + autocannon
65 10 guard + grenade launcher + autocannon

155 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun + chimera /w ml + flamer
155 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun + chimera /w ml + flamer

180 3 armored sentinel 3x autocannon
120 3 scout sentinel 3x autocannon

165 leman russ battle tank + lascannon
180 leman russ demolisher + lascannon
75 Hydra flak tank + flamer
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1500

I tried to take everyone's opinions into account while still maintaining the basic concept of the army I set out to create. I actually really liked the idea of swapping out the heavy weps squad for the hydra, although I'm still a bit undecided on this matter (for now hydra will stay in the list). I feel as though further changes would be based highly on personal preference, but I always will welcome suggestions. Also I understand the carapace armour on the CCS isn't the greatest, but its only 20 points and my army won't be impaired too much (besides it adds a little padding to keep those plasmas safe).

I would really appreciate any strategic input as well. For example, do my sentinel squads split up and each take a flank or stick together generally? Would my vets be best to rush up the center and hit vehicles/objectives fast or flank? I know its highly dependent on the army I face and the positioning of terrain, but just some general prioritization would be welcome. :)
 

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Why not roll with something like this...

165 Company command squad + 4x plasma gun + chimera /w ml + flamer

105 5 Storm troopers + 2x meltagun

Platoon
120 platoon command squad + Power Fist+ 4x Flamers + chimera /w ml + flamer
75 10 guard + Plasma Gun + autocannon
75 10 guard + Plasma Gun + autocannon

165 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun + autocannon + chimera /w ml + flamer
165 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun + autocannon + chimera /w ml + flamer

120 3 scout sentinel 3x autocannon
120 3 scout sentinel 3x autocannon

150 leman russ battle tank + HF
165 leman russ demolisher +HF
75 Hydra flak tank + Heavy Bolter
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1500

I too am not a fan of the Storm Troopers... I imagine your set on using the sentinels and the storm troopers in your list, but if I were you I'd swap all the sentinels and the storm troopers for 2 Vendettas (rides for the infantry) and a Lord Commie w/ Fist (linked up with the PCS) for a fully mechanized list, but that's just me...

Good luck in your games...
 

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Eh? I just said that's what I did with stormies. I'm confused here.
I tend to field my Vets in Chimeras. The Chimera is pretty well suited to anti infantry work. Melta vets, while suited to anti armor work, are usually more than enough to finish off a weakened infantry squad when required.

A recent tactic that has worked for me vs, marines is to advance with mounted stormies and hellhounds w/ hull mm to hit enemy vehicles on turn one. While doing this, I also advance my mounted meltavet squads at flank speed and pop smoke. By turn 2 I typically have 4-5 melta armed units midfield, surrounded by a number of burning wrecks, as well as 1 or 2 hellhounds running wild in my opponent's back field.

This tactic serves to bottle my opponent's intial wave into a fairly manageable kill zone, leaving my infantry platoons to hold rearward objectives. Additionally, this is sufficient to have most of my opponent's vehicles dead by turn 2, allowing me to retask melta units put down remaining troop resistance, often by midgame.

Againts armies that employ reserves, often (cursed emo marines aside) arrive too late to support their forward elements,and face the mass of my army alone.

In summary, outflanking vets are equally effective if not more so vs, infantry than stormtroopers.
 

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I see what you're saying, but I think you're forgetting that I didn't say I wouldn't use Veterans to kill infantry, but that I'd rather have them focusing on tanks. Storm troopers represent a disproportionally large threat to my opponents, and I pimp them out to be infantry killers (Plasma Rifles over Melta Guns, though I do run them with Melta Guns from time to time). Similar to you, most vehicles I face are dead or useless by the end of turn two/three, and my vets can hold points just fine for me, but I'd rather them kill any vehicles they come across that are still alive then force units off points.

Edit:
I usually also equip the Sgt. with a power weapon. Even at S3, a volly of hotshot las-pistols followed by a *lot* of melee attacks (16 or so), 4 of which being a power weapon, coupled with a 4+ save lets them live through assaults where veterans would fall. They're not my be-all-end-all unit, but I have been known to drop them next to a MC, and they've often enough killed or severely wounded it. Versatility is nice. Granted, they're not melta guns against vehicles, but four plasma shots into rear armour can do enough harm on its own!

With Storm Troopers, I'm far more likely to take risks with them. My boys rarely let me down (except in last years kill team....ugh...)
 

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I think the relative difference in loadouts, makes a large difference in how they're employed. I usually run the 2 meltagun config in the hopes of them getting a turn one transport kill. Between them and the hellhounds, they've usually made a significant dent in my opponent.
 

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Absolutely, they're great at that.

It's nice to see a slow shift towards using them. Their Hotshots aren't as bad as people make out!
I don't count on them, but it is certainly nice when you drop a marine with a lasgun hehe. That said, in my army, Officer laspistols seem to be disproportionately lethal of late.
 

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Flashlight kills garner extra style points...I like stripping a TMC down to its last wound, then rapidfiring lasguns at it to see if it drops (it usually does) before switching back to heavy weapons (if required). But nothing beats the time I beat down a flyrant with a mob of conscripts...6s to hit, 6s to wound, and then a 3+ save? It took a lot of conscripts a loooong time to do it!
 
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