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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
New to 40K and to LO! Coworkers and I just started playing 40K recently (one played in his earlier years). We've played a few matches between 800 and 1200 points. Next weekend we're stepping up to a 1500. I've had great luck pounding Necrons with Deathwing, but I'm having alot of problems with Tau. I've read alot of posts here and picked up some great tips. I think my biggest problem used to be lack of actual models and limited choice of what I could field. I've since expanded my collection.

Here's what I'd planned for next weekend:

Reclusiarch (HQ) @ 121 Pts
- Crozius Arcanum; Bolt Pistol; Jump Pack

8-man Assault Squad (Fast Attack) @ 232 Pts
- Plasma P. (x2); Melta-Bombs; Jump Packs; Vet Sergeant w/ Power Fist & Bolt Pistol

7-man Tactical Squad (Troops) @ 160 Pts
- Plasma Cannon (x1); Plasma Gun (x1); Drop Pod

7-man Tactical Squad (Troops) @ 160 Pts
- Lascannon (x1); Plasma Gun (x1); Drop Pod

5-man Deathwing Terminators (Elites) @ 525 Pts
- Power Fist (x2); Assault Cannon (x2); Land Raider

5-man Bike Squad (Fast Attack) @ 215 Pts
- Bolt Pistol (x2); MeltaGun (x2); Vet Sergeant w/ Power Fist & Stubborn

1 Ravenwing Land Speeder Tornado (Fast Attack) @ 80 Pts

Models in Army: 37

Total Army Cost: 1493


This will face what I think is called a Mech Tau force.
3 Crisis Suits with drones (One is HQ guy, armed with Plasma Rifles and/or missle pods)
1 Stealth team
2 ten man squads of Firewarriors in Devilfish.. devilfishes? devilfishii? (usually half carbines, half rifles)
1 twenty man Kroot Squad
1 Pathfinder squad with Devilfish
1 Hammerhead with that freakin' big ol' Railgun


In the past I've caused him alot of grief with the RW Bikes. But it seems like I've got this distinct three-wave attack going on... Bikes clash, then Assault squad hits like two turns later, then Tac squads another turn or two later. Which results in him blowing up units turn by turn. I realized this last game, so my new strategy is this:

Divide his fire by presenting multiple threats on the same turn.

My opponent knows how killer my Assault+Chap squad is. And also how annoying my Bikers are. He's watched my Termies rip Necrons apart. So if I can present Assault, Bikes, a LST *AND* drop pod Tacs *AND* mobile Termies, I'm hoping I can spread out his fire and cause a flank to break.

My thoughts were to run the Land Raider up one side. The Assault, Bikes, and LST up the other. And Drop pod the Tacs somewhere near but in front of the Termies. Tau player is very quick to unload Devilfish... troops never stay in there long for him. With so many attackers on one side (bikes, assault, LST) I'd think one could get behind him and smack Firewarriors that disembark. Meanwhile, I'd bet money the Hammerhead will go right for the Land Raider. With both Tac squads shooting (LC and PC) and the Raider shooting I don't think it'll be around long. Mop up battlesuits in assault and I'm done!

I'd love to hear feedback! However, I don't have any Dreadnoughts, so it's not an option.
 

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I suggest going into the SM articles section and reading the tacticas on how to set up your squads and options.

Also, when posting your list, just say something like:

Tactical squad x10, veteren sergeant w/ powerfist, meltagun, drop pod, 220 pts

Don't include upgraded models or transports as separate entries in your list, just mention their upgrades or options in their description, like above.
 

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I would make the bike squad 5 man with 2 meltaguns and sergeant with powerfist. I would also make the chaplain and assault squad 10 man and give the chaplain blades of reason. Why not come check out the Order of The White Sword Inner Circle in the clubs and clans section for all your dark angels needs. Also try writing the squads like this

e.g.
Tactical squad: 10 man
8 bolters, meltagun
Sergeant with Powerfist and bolt pistol
Drop pod

Also you have to assume people know things like Terminators wear Terminator Armour.

Oh jeez take the plasma cannons out the drop podding squads and give them meltaguns. Never put heavy weapons in cc squads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Ahh, sorry about the format... I just exported the text file out of ArmyBuilder and made sure to remove point values for upgrades to be Forum compliant.

Editing my original into an easier to read format.

I'm re-reading all the tactica from the articles section. I'm curious if you think my strategy of having a Land Raider in a sub-2000 point game is a bad idea, as neither of you mentioned it, but I've seen other places where it was said repeatedly. It's alot of points with Termies inside, but that's also half the point... a big threat to lure the big targets away from my fast Bikes and Assault.

Librarian Augustine said:
I would make the bike squad 5 man with 2 meltaguns and sergeant with powerfist. I would also make the chaplain and assault squad 10 man and give the chaplain blades of reason.
What do you recommend removing in order to add this stuff? Perhaps the PowerFist on the chaplin should be downgraded to a bolt pistol. I understand that larger squads equals more attacks and longer lasting, but it also means less total units, which is contrary to what I thought might be an effective strategy. DA seem to be labeled as a shooty army, but Tau are a MORE shooty army... I keep seeing that the way to win is to CC them... but as a shooty army myself, I'm having issues making it into CC before being shot up. What are your thoughts?

Librarian Augustine said:
Oh jeez take the plasma cannons out the drop podding squads and give them meltaguns. Never put heavy weapons in cc squads.
I'm having issues with setting up the Tac squad. I honestly don't think they're going to see much if any CC. If I drop them near the Termies and Land Raider, their most likely targets are going to be Devilfish and Hammerheads. CC won't do anything except set me up to die. I worry that when/if the Land Raider is shot to pieces I'll have zero weapons that have a chance of taking down Tau vehicles. The 12" range on the meltagun may only get a single shot off as his Hammerhead easily out runs me to get a better long range shooting position. Perhaps combining a LC and a Meltagun and shrinking the squad to 5 or 6 man? Maybe enough points to up the Assault squad a bit.


EDIT: After re-reading the Tac squad tactica (Hey look! There's a second page!), I tried dropping both 10-man squads w/ PF Vet Sgt & LCs to 7-man squads w/ LCs and Plasma guns. This freed up enough points to bump the bikes up to a 5-man squad with two meltaguns AND bump the assault squad up to 7-man with two plasma pistols. I also removed the Power Fist from the Chaplin. I like the feel of that better, so I'm editing the first post to reflect new changes.
 

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Tips:
Dont waste your best firepower on those crisis suits. use smaller fire to pick of their gun-drone bodyguards, THEN bring out the big guns against them.
To answer your question, YES a landraider in a sub-1500 pt game is a HUGE risk.. i tried it and it got popped on the 2nd turn. BUT.. if you can deploy it well, with good cover fire etc etc etc, and maybe a little bad luck for your opponents dice rolls, the risk can pay off.
Obviusly the main threat to your landraider is the hammerhead. so keep it well clear of it until it has done its job (delivered the terminators!). then move it to a good spot and keep it there for the rest of the game just firing away with all guns.

the main thing to remember with landraiders.. dont try to do 2 jobs at once with it.. one job is to sit it still and blaze-away with all guns. the other job is to move it the full 12" every turn to deliver its passengers. do one or the other, not both.
i made the mistake of putting passengers in it and moving it 6" in order to still get some lascannon fire AND deliver the guys... take a guess what happend? lol :(

So again: keep it away from the hammerhead and forget about shooting with it. just move it the full 12" every turn until the termies are delivered where you want them. THEN move it to a good position and sit there shooting for the rest of the game (focusing on the crisis suits and hammerhead if possible)

goodluck
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Do you have to declare which troops are drop podding/deepstriking/riding in transports before the game starts?

Perhaps deepstriking the Termies will guarantee they make it into battle. Then the Land Raider is freed up to hide at the beginning of game (without delaying Terminator delivery) and can come out to play after the Hammerhead is occupied.

Plus the added suprise of "wait... the terminators aren't in the land raider?? ack!!" :ninja:

Another option would be to ditch the land raider and take another squad of Deathwing Termies w/ 1 assault cannon, then Teleport both squads into battle. Doing this would remove my "bait" vehicle though. With bikes and a solo LST (and maybe the assault squad) as the only units on the table at the start, the hammerhead will probably go straight for them. Thoughts?
 

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Ghost of LO
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haha, shameless self promation Augustine :p

Lets get this DAs list in order eh? hes seems to want to improve.

Reclusiarch (HQ) @ 121 Pts
- Crozius Arcanum; Bolt Pistol; Jump Pack
Dont ever field an HQ without frag grenades, except when in terminator armour.

8-man Assault Squad (Fast Attack) @ 232 Pts
- Plasma P. (x2); Melta-Bombs; Jump Packs; Vet Sergeant w/ Power Fist & Bolt Pistol
Remove melta bombs, dont assault tanks, assault infantry, shoot tanks. Especially not tau tanks, since they are skimmers your only going to hit them on a 6.
Add more men.

7-man Tactical Squad (Troops) @ 160 Pts
- Plasma Cannon (x1); Plasma Gun (x1); Drop Pod
Major issues here.
Dont drop pod shooty squads.
Did you put a deathwind launcher on the pod? if so never do that, youll almost never hit with hit, and with such horrible range, you wont be able to sustain firepower for very long. THe storm bolter will get more kills, and its free.
So make this squad more like this:
10 man, 1 powerfisted Sgt, 1 melta gun.

7-man Tactical Squad (Troops) @ 160 Pts
- Lascannon (x1); Plasma Gun (x1); Drop Pod
Again either remove the drop pod, or change the squad completely.

5-man Deathwing Terminators (Elites) @ 525 Pts
- Power Fist (x2); Assault Cannon (x2); Land Raider
Dont field landraiders in under 2250. Also, dont field tactical termintor, or assault termintors squads in 1500 (you may still field command termintor squads.)
So ditch both these choices.

5-man Bike Squad (Fast Attack) @ 215 Pts
- Bolt Pistol (x2); MeltaGun (x2); Vet Sergeant w/ Power Fist & Stubborn
This is a very good choices against tau.

1 Ravenwing Land Speeder Tornado (Fast Attack) @ 80 Pts
Your gonna need to really play defesnively with this, but if you can do so, it will bring you unparrelled success.


What kind of tau list are you playing?

Mechanised tau, is a much different list then a more standard tau army. My guess is, that your playing with your friends, who are all new the to game correct? If so, i doubt hes mech.

Your current HQ is a pretty good choice, and will do well Agaisnt Every army. However, sometimes, he can faulter against tau. This is because him, and his squad arenty very durable to tau firepower. Although they are nearly invinceable in CC, they can often be destoryed before you can get there. If you find this is true consider the following:

Librarain on bike, 3 wounds, termintator armour, stormborn, frags, bolt pistol, Space marine bike; Fear of the darkness.

He, and a bike squad, are can be simply devistating to a tau list. Boosting up turn one, drawling a hurrendus armout of firepower, and then casting fear of the darkness, and assaulting whatevers left over.

Fear of the darkness will send 50% of all effected tau squads running for there lives. They cant regroup if there is a unit withen 6" of them, so you charge after using the power, often the squads will still be withen 6" and fall back in the next turn, having them exit the battle feild.

Librarain in termintator armour, with a deathwing command squad, 2 assault cannons drop pod. Basically the same stratagy, except, you dont have to sustain a turn of shoot, but you cant assault in the same turn you arrive.

This is probably the more effect combo, and is Much easier to use.

I suggest you go with army like this:

Librarain, 2 wounds, terminater armour, strom bolter, stuborn. Fear of the darkness. 140

Command squad, 2 terminators, 2 assault cannon termintors. 220

Tactical squad: 5 man, 1 with lascannon, 4 with bolters. 90

Tactical squad: 5 man, 1 with lascannon, 4 with bolters. 90

Tactical squad: 5 man, 1 with lascannon, 4 with bolters. 90

Tactical squad: 5 man, 1 with lascannon, 4 with bolters. 90

Landspeeder tornados 80
AC + HB

Bikes: 5 250
2 normal
2 with melta guns
1 sgt with powerfist.

Devistators: 4 bolters, 4 Missile launchers. 200

Devistators: 4 bolters, 4 Missile launchers. 200

1450.

This really isnt the best compostion, but its very easy to use, just point and shoot :)

Currently your out shooting tau, but only the bikes and the termintors treatin the crisis suits.

The bikes should hunt the crisis, while the termintors go after massed infantry, the rest of your army should be focused on downing tanks, Unless the tau makes a mistakes and leaves his crisis suits in LOS, dont hesitate to blow them away. Good Hunting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Frag Gernades on HQ, check. No Meltabombs on assault, check. Both sound like good logic. Librarian, dang, I've been wanting to try one in a battle. On a bike seems like an awsome idea, or the drop pod termies. I might build an alternate list and try working that in.

But the rest of the stuff I have questions about. After talking a bit more, I've determined a bit more about what he'll field (my original guesses are in the first post Forged). Now I'm thinking:
- Crisis Suit Commander w/ bodyguard unit (2x crisis suits) and some drones (HQ)
- 3 squads of 6-man stealth suits with drones (maxxed out Elite)
- 12 Firewarriors in a Devilfish (troops)
- 20 Kroot infiltrated into whatever terrian is available (troops)
- 1 Hammerhead unknown main weapon (heavy)
- 8 Pathfinders in a Devilfish (fast)
- a hand full of gun drones in a squad (fast)

The attention grabber for me is the 54+TL gun drone shots the 18 stealth suits have. Jump-Fire-Jump... 18" shooting range.... night fighting rules to hit them.

I worry that if I divide my force (bikes and deepstrike on one end - 12 Heavy Weps on the other) that he'll huddle in a mass and unleash massive firepower on one squad at a time. 1st turn bikes, 2nd turn leftover bikes and Deepstrikes, 3rd turn leftover deepstrikes and start taking potshots at heavies while moving forward under cover.

This is a similar problem I've had before. He waits for me to come to him, and calmly picks off one unit at a time as I vainly try to rush in at him to lock close combat. The single time my assault squad made it, I unleashed hell and ripped through 60% of his force, but it just isn't panning out so far.

That's why I was drop podding the two heavies, and building a fast army. On turn two, instead of having 1 unit to shoot at, give him 6. He can't cut that many down in one go. And if they're spaced out across the board he's got nothing to hide behind. After his shooting, I move shoot and assault on every front, from every direction. The Hammerhead and Devilfish will have to face some of the units, with units all around I've got shots to hit rear armor, which even a bolter can hit (on a 6, but better than nothing)!

Am I babbling nonsense? This seems like a combination of the Fast and Droppod army in Chaosbynn's tactica. Does it stand a better chance?
 

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what kind of armour saves do tau have? if its 4+ or worse i would consider taking a whirlwind to hit those stleath teams with.
 

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Well, the tau army is pretty elite.

That recudes how good the fear of the darkness works.

you can basically ignore the kroot.

Well, your not using the strengths of the DAs this way but:

Chaplain: 2 wounds, termi honours, frags, BP, blades of reason. 127

Assault squad 10 man, 2 pp, sgt bolt pistol Powerfist. 260

Bike squad, 5 man, 2 meltas, sgt bolt pistol, powerfist. 250

Landspeeder tornado squadron. 160
2x landspeeder tornado: HB + AC

Tactical squad: 5 man 1 lascannon. 90

Tactical squad: 9 man, melta gun, sgt powerfist + BP. drop pod 220

Tactical squad: 9 man, melta gun, sgt powerfist + BP. drop pod 220

Devastators: 4 boltes, 4 MLs 200

1497.

Use the devs and the lascannon to down any tanks.

Use the drop pods to surround his eliltes.

Use the bikes to charge the crisis suits.

Use the assault squad to assault what ever they can.

Use the landspeeders to help thin out the elites.


Make sure your playing a mission. You should never be forced to start more then 24 Inches from the tau. Deployment zone.
Good luck
 

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3+ ? ok forget the whirlwind then..

Yep, forged pretty much hit the nail on the head. that a good assulty list vs tau.

by the way, i HATE kroot. they look so stupid and out-of-place in the tau army.. if he fields any.. crush them!.. thats an order.

good luck ;)
 
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