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LO Zealot
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1,449 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I havent really played any 40k for the last year or so, but recently my friends and I have decided to give the game another go. We will be playing 1500 point games max, and my enemies will be 4th edition chaos, 3rd edition craftworld eldar, 3rd edition tau farsight brigade, and 4th edition IG of mixed hieritage. This 1500 point list will be my main workhorse, and thus I will make the greatest efforts to make it competitative.

The opposition is merciless, and so I must be. Teach me what is hot in the world of DE these days.

The list:

HQ:

Haemonculus (64)
+ Destructor
+ Scissorhand
+ Skyboard
+ Haywire Grenades

Haemonculus (64)
+ Destructor
+ Scissorhand
+ Skyboard
+ Haywire Grenades

---------------

Elites:

9 Wyches (228)
+ Plasma Grenades
+ Wyche weapons
Succubus
+ Agoniser
+ Plasma Grenades
+ Wyche weapons
Raider
+ Horrorfex

---------------

Troops:

8 Warriors (175)
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Blaster
1 Sybarite
+ Agoniser
+ Splinter Pistol
+ Plasma Grenades
Raider
+ Horrorfex

9 Warriors (183)
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Blaster
1 Sybarite
+ Agoniser
+ Splinter Pistol
+ Plasma Grenades
Raider
+ Horrorfex

10 Warriors (100)
+2x Dark Lance

10 Warriors (100)
+2x Dark Lance

10 Warriors (100)
+2x Dark Lance

---------------

Fast Attack:

5 Reavers (208)
+ 2x Blaster
Succubus
+ Power Weapon
+ Tormentor Helm
+ Plasma Grenades

---------------

Heavy Support:

Ravager (140)
+ 3x Disentegrators
+ Night Shield

Ravager (140)
+ 3x Disentegrators
+ Night Shield

Total: 1498
 

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225 Posts
The opposition is merciless, and so I must be. Teach me what is hot in the world of DE these days.
In general, Raider Rushes are frowned upon since just about every army can shoot you down before you can make it in to assault unless you have a LOT (ie 6+) of raiders. WWP is often seen due to negating many of the disadvantages of Raider Rushes but in return is reliant on an expensive piece of wargear.

The list:

HQ:

Haemonculus (64)
+ Destructor
+ Scissorhand
+ Skyboard
+ Haywire Grenades

Haemonculus (64)
+ Destructor
+ Scissorhand
+ Skyboard
+ Haywire Grenades
I like the setup although if you plan on assaulting with them I suggest giving them a plasma grenade. Also you might want to try fitting in a shadow field on one of them (combat drugs aren't that useful since the Scissor hands don't combine with many drug effects).

Note: In case you didn't know, you can take multiple haemonculi as a single HQ choice and they act independently.

---------------

Elites:

9 Wyches (228)
+ Plasma Grenades
+ Wyche weapons
Succubus
+ Agoniser
+ Plasma Grenades
+ Wyche weapons
Raider
+ Horrorfex

---------------
Pretty standard set up. All good.

Troops:

8 Warriors (175)
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Blaster
1 Sybarite
+ Agoniser
+ Splinter Pistol
+ Plasma Grenades
Raider
+ Horrorfex

9 Warriors (183)
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Blaster
1 Sybarite
+ Agoniser
+ Splinter Pistol
+ Plasma Grenades
Raider
+ Horrorfex

10 Warriors (100)
+2x Dark Lance

10 Warriors (100)
+2x Dark Lance

10 Warriors (100)
+2x Dark Lance

---------------
The warriors are a bit odd. I am really not a fan of warrior assault squads because they die REALLY easily and don't kill a lot in return. Wyches at least have the benefit of a 4+ invulnerable save in assault which gives them a ton of staying power even if they aren't all that lethal most of the time. This is expecially true since most of the unit doesn't have plasma grenades. Also the blasters really feel out of place since most of the time you'll only get a single shot out of the blaster since either A.) You are 7-12" away and will be shot out of the sky on your opponents turn or B.) You are 1-6" away and are going to be assaulting the enemy and THEN shot up once the-enemy/your-unit dies/flees. So either way your are likely only to get a single shot out of it and you are better off just sticking another guy in the unit or replacing it with a splinter cannon.

Fast Attack:

5 Reavers (208)
+ 2x Blaster
Succubus
+ Power Weapon
+ Tormentor Helm
+ Plasma Grenades

---------------
This unit isn't bad, per se but it is too under-specialized: It has a power weapon but it is too small to be a proper assault squad and the blasters don't benefit the squad in assault. The blasters make the unit a great anti-tank squad but the power weapon is useless against tanks. I suggest either building the unit up for assault (more guys and no blasters) or going for tankhunting (my preference) with two blasters and a succubus with a heywire grenade.

Heavy Support:

Ravager (140)
+ 3x Disentegrators
+ Night Shield

Ravager (140)
+ 3x Disentegrators
+ Night Shield

Total: 1498
I've been on both sides of the fence with Night Shields ever since I started playing. One one hand they can save the unit from a lot of really lethal stuff (first turn meltas or pulse rifles, first turn heavy bolter barrage, melta-guns, pistols of every sort, etc) but is completely useless most of the time (Lascannons, Multi-meltas, Railguns, etc). In general I'd personally prefer to just use terrain to hide my vehicles rather then rely on an expensive upgrade that isn't likely to work anyway. However, if you are just starting out, it might be good.


Mainly, your army needs more specialization in a few units. DE can field generalists but we are more effective as specialists usually.
 

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Archite of Caerbannog
Joined
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1,582 Posts
LOL Sareld, I aint falling for this one - its bait and I'm not going for it. Last time you threw out a slightly whacked list you knew darn well what you were doing only to refute everyones suggestions. I don't think a year changes anything other than the 4th edition chaos - other than that nothing has changed about the game.

If anyone knows how to make this list work its you. Good luck.
 

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LO Zealot
Joined
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1,449 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
LOL Sareld, I aint falling for this one - its bait and I'm not going for it. Last time you threw out a slightly whacked list you knew darn well what you were doing only to refute everyones suggestions. I don't think a year changes anything other than the 4th edition chaos - other than that nothing has changed about the game.

If anyone knows how to make this list work its you. Good luck.
I genuinely want advice on this one. While it is true that I refute some suggestions when I post my lists, it is because noone else on these forums have any idea about whats going on in my metagame enviroment. To tell the truth, my opponents have toughned up during my absence from the gmae, and the things that used to work for me, like my old raider rush lists, just dont cut it anymore.

Updated list, with most of Tolorans advice taken into account.

HQ:

Haemonculus (66)
+ Destructor
+ Scissorhand
+ Skyboard
+ Haywire Grenades
+ Plasma Grenades

Haemonculus (66)
+ Destructor
+ Scissorhand
+ Skyboard
+ Haywire Grenades
+ Plasma Grenades

Plasma grenades added for leftover points. Both haemunculi are operating seperately.

---------------

Elites:

9 Wyches (228)
+ Plasma Grenades
+ Wyche weapons
Succubus
+ Agoniser
+ Plasma Grenades
+ Wyche weapons
Raider
+ Horrorfex

---------------

Troops:

9 Warriors (183)
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Blaster
1 Sybarite
+ Agoniser
+ Splinter Pistol
+ Plasma Grenades
Raider
+ Horrorfex

9 Warriors (183)
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Blaster
1 Sybarite
+ Agoniser
+ Splinter Pistol
+ Plasma Grenades
Raider
+ Horrorfex

I would take two splinter cannons in these squads if I could, but unfortunately it is not possible. I added the blaster as an auxillary anti tank weapon rather than a manstopper, and as I have points left I might as well keep them. Regarding the syberites efficiency in CC, it is my personal expirience that they work well enough for me to want to keep them, and for now thats what Im going to do. Please note that the squads does consist of 10 (9 warriors + 1 syberite) men each

10 Warriors (100)
+2x Dark Lance

10 Warriors (100)
+2x Dark Lance

10 Warriors (100)
+2x Dark Lance

---------------

Fast Attack:

3 Reavers (120)
+ 2x Blaster
Succubus
+ Haywire Grenades

3 Reavers (120)
+ 2x Blaster
Succubus
+ Haywire Grenades

---------------

Heavy Support:

Ravager (120)
+ 3x Disentegrators

Ravager (120)
+ 3x Disentegrators

Total: 1506 <<< will possibly drop a warrior from a raider squad to get below 1500 points.
 

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Archite of Caerbannog
Joined
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1,582 Posts
Well then, I would hate to see the thread die if you truly want some advice ;)

Haemonculus (66)
+ Destructor
+ Scissorhand
+ Skyboard
+ Haywire Grenades
+ Plasma Grenades

Haemonculus (66)
+ Destructor
+ Scissorhand
+ Skyboard
+ Haywire Grenades
+ Plasma Grenades

Plasma grenades added for leftover points. Both haemunculi are operating seperately.
This looks like you already have a plan in which to use these guys but I am still going to say that they are pretty weak in the HQ realm. Haemys being our “shooty” lords will kill more to shooting than the charge. Without a Haemy with a shadowfield or combat drugs these Haemy should be left out of combat and shoot whenever possible (but I think you know that).

My experience with this exact unit has been no better than average and rarely gets its points worth. They can maneuver enough to get that one “sweet” shot off but will usually end up in combat and then die. Sure, they may kill a marine in the process but without a CC Lord your are defying the army design as the biggest CC hammer of all is the Lord. I would love to see a 2nd HQ like a Dracon that will give the lone wych squad a boost in close combat.

As for the plasma grenade recommendation – you cannot use plasma grenades in conjunction with scissorhand. The scissorhand references the “poison blades” description and the poison blade description clearly states you cannot combine the blades with plasma grenades. So drop the grenades – I would rather see you use haywires for those Haemys, they are disposable enough to suicide them into tank or loaded rhino.

9 Wyches (228)
+ Plasma Grenades
+ Wyche weapons
Succubus
+ Agoniser
+ Plasma Grenades
+ Wyche weapons
Raider
+ Horrorfex
Your only true close combat unit. I think they are setup perfectly – I still think you need more close combat punch as these ladies will need support. They will definitely be targeted first if your opponents know what they are doing and once this raider goes down your close combat threat is reduced by half to two thirds.

9 Warriors (183)
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Blaster
1 Sybarite
+ Agoniser
+ Splinter Pistol
+ Plasma Grenades
Raider
+ Horrorfex
The squad is fine – they are multi-purpose as they make a decent fire base and can actually support the wych squad in close combat.

10 Warriors (100)
+2x Dark Lance

10 Warriors (100)
+2x Dark Lance

10 Warriors (100)
+2x Dark Lance
I detest these units entirely – I hope you don’t feel it’s the only way to win with Dark Eldar. I understand it’s the most efficient use of 100 points but when you look at what they represent they make me shudder – a unit that hides in cover, doesn’t move and prays it doesn’t get assaulted (kinda reminds me of the mon-keigh). I would easily drop one of these squads and “beef” up the other two with 2 blasters and 2 splinter cannons and more men. If it gives you an edge then more power to you – enjoy while you can, I really don’t think we will get to make these squads if the new codex comes out.

3 Reavers (120)
+ 2x Blaster
Succubus
+ Haywire Grenades

3 Reavers (120)
+ 2x Blaster
Succubus
+ Haywire Grenades
I liked the first setup better – at least they had a chance and not another min/max squad. Bikes are tough to use at this level and I really don’t use them much until I get to 2,000 points. They are not the best at tank hunting or close combat so I see them more as a support unit. I do like them in the scheme of your list as you need help in both the tank hunting and close combat arena (talking about the original 5 bike squad you posted).

Ravager (120)
+ 3x Disentegrators

Ravager (120)
+ 3x Disentegrators
At 1500 points these are fine as is. It’s a personal preference for me but I like having 1 dark lance in the mix. I don’t feel mixing your weapons hurt you one bit and have 2 extra lances in the army is bad but that’s with me not using any “sniper squads”. So you are really ok with this setup as you will need the crowd control weapons since you are deficient in the close combat department (in my opinion).

I know you can make your original list work as you are a good a general to begin with so its just food for thought.
 

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LO Zealot
Joined
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1,449 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I tried and tried, but it was no good. No matter what I do, or how many past battles I rethink, there is always something I would rather have had than reavers. Sure, they are super cool models, but raider carried infantry seens to always have an edge over them in terms of offensive power, and their much praised improved staying they get from their extra T and better saves just dont make up for their low numbers. I am hereby officially abandoning the last DE FA choice for competitative play.

I thank you for your advice, here is an updated list:

HQ:

Arcon (137)
+ Punisher
+ Tormentor gun
+ Shadow field
+ Combat drugs
+ Plasma grenades

Haemonculus (64)
+ Destructor
+ Scissorhand
+ Skyboard
+ Haywire Grenades

Oops! The plasma nades were dropped from the heamy, and I found a pplace for my good old lord, who have won me many a game in the past. How could I ever think of fielding an army without him? Silly me.

---------------

Elites:

9 Wyches (228)
+ Plasma Grenades
+ Wyche weapons
Succubus
+ Agoniser
+ Plasma Grenades
+ Wyche weapons
Raider
+ Horrorfex

9 Wyches (228)
+ Plasma Grenades
+ Wyche weapons
Succubus
+ Agoniser
+ Plasma Grenades
+ Wyche weapons
Raider
+ Horrorfex

There, with the lord and the extra wyche squad my assault power is back in the danger zone.
---------------

Troops:

9 Warriors (183)
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Blaster
1 Sybarite
+ Agoniser
+ Splinter Pistol
+ Plasma Grenades
Raider
+ Horrorfex

9 Warriors (183)
+ Splinter Cannon
+ Blaster
1 Sybarite
+ Agoniser
+ Splinter Pistol
+ Plasma Grenades
Raider
+ Horrorfex

10 Warriors (100)
+2x Dark Lance

10 Warriors (100)
+2x Dark Lance

A pretty standard troop section. The mon-keigh like squads are needed to kill tanks, so they stay. Some of my opponents field ungodly amounts of armor, and I simply dont know how to cope without getting cheap DLs this way.
---------------

Heavy Support:

Ravager (140)
+ 3x Disentegrators
+ Night Shield

Ravager (140)
+ 3x Disentegrators
+ Night Shield

Night shields restored. They DO save the ravagers skin fairly often, and its not like I need those points elsewhere. Ive kept the all dissy theme, but I may consider building a DL armed ravager with the last kit I have laying around.

Total: 1503 points. I´ll drop a warrior to accomodate the lord, and thereby bring the army down to 1495.

Army total:
ICs: 2
Wyches: 20
Warriors: 39
Vehicles: 6
 
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