[Moonwatcher]

Ok, this is a potential tournement list that i dreampt up, have play tested it once against a competant tau player and won by 1200 points! (however im under no illusion the recon mission and tau army may have favored the list).

Heres the list, i would love comments from any and all. what i ask however is you judge it based on tournement type lists (i belive anyone can write a list to specifically beat any other list - the purpose of this list is to beat a majority of players with suprise, number of shots and number of attacks)

Daemon Prince - 155
wings
warptime

Daemon Prince - 155
wings
warptime

10x CSM, Rhino, 2 Melta - 205
10x CSM, Rhino, 2 Melta - 205
10x CSM, Rhino, 2 Melta - 205
10x CSM, Rhino, 2 Melta - 205
10x CSM, Rhino - 185
10x CSM, Rhino - 185

infantry - 60
vehicles - 6
monsterous creatures - 2
Points - 1500.


The basic tactic with the list is as follows:

Deployment - All marines start inside thier rhinos, daemon princes behind
_________________________







............R R R R R R............
_________DP__DP__________


Turn 1 - Rhinos move 12" and pop smoke, daeon princes follow, out of LOS behind the rhinos
_________________________





....^.#R#R#R#R#R#R#.^..
....|..........DP DP...........|...

_________________________


Turn 2 - Rhinos another 12" and turn 180 degrees pointing thier weak armor at the enemy but unloading the 60 marines facing the enemy, the marines let go with as many single shots/rapid fire shots as they have got left (60/120 if all alive) daemon princes follow, out of LOS behind the rhinos
_________________________


.... | m m m m m m |.......
.....v...R R R R R R...v.......
..............DP DP................



_________________________


Turn 3 - Marines move, fire pistols once and charge somthing using up to 40 attacks (per squad that turn to do thier job, daemon princes fly over the rhino wall/graveyard and assault somthing each.


etc..



This is the basic jist of the list and how it could play, what i need from you guys are, whats good whats bad and what would you change

Thanks!

Moon

 

[Mad Cat]

This list is a bit specialised but we can easily fill in a few of the gaps.

HQs Nice and powerful. MoN on them makes them even more survivable and I would deffinatly recomend it if you have points left over. They van make do without and your tactics of the vehicle screen can make up for them only being T5.

CSMs
Right there are lots of them but terminators will be a problem as will standard marines with a sergent with powerfist. I would reccomend dropping the last squad for 4 powerfist champions in the units.

Remember you don't have to have 10 men in a squad to get 2 special weapons if you make them havoc squads. As you have all 3 heavy slots empty you can fine tune your list to have say 3x10 and 2x8 each with 2 special weapons. Another option is to take one havoc squad of 5 men with 4 flamers and a rhino. It is very cheap (130 points) and rather fun. This could free up more points to beef up the combat power of your 4 main squads. Icons of chaos glory could be useful but including champs in the units makes them Ld10 so getting 4 icons may not be needed if the points can be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Moonwatcher]

Hi Mad Cat, thanks for your feedback!

I am also of the same opinion that losing 1 squad is a good idea to add 'somthing' the give this list the finishing touch.

I like the idea of the havocs, this is somthing i hadnt considered! being the same price they are basically the same as a CSM squad with more special weapons options!

somthing that i think will work well in this army and in any chaos army is redundancy, which is why although i like the flamer squad im not convinced alone it will work, if i could fit 2 of them in then i belive it would have more of a chance. The idea could potentialy be used with chaos chosen however infifltrating they will not require a rhino so a 5 man squad with4 flamers would then only cost 110 points and doubling them up would be fairly do-able.

As for terminators, i was under the impression volume of fire would take down most terminator squads? Have you any thoughts on what stryle of terminator squad in particular you think will be a problem?

I do love powerfists, however i cringe a little when i have to pay 40 points (AC+fist) for one and i do wonder if in this army that its worth it?

Im playing devils advocate alot here trying to really get to grips with the list and i take all your critiques very seriously! Much appreciated!

 

[HoRN]

The list is a good swarm but there are a few flaws.

You have nothing beyond range 24. More importantly, no anti-tank beyond range 12.
Fair enough you have rhinos to transport the meltas and 2 daemons, but the rhinos can be slowed (and selectively.

Your strategy is going to give your enemy the charge. You could stagger your squads so only 1 or 2 receive a charge, but its throwing all your cards onto the table.

I know first hand that the DPs will do a lot of damage, but they can be countered by any careful opponent. As you say, 60 marine bolters will most likely wipe out a few terminators with ease - but a solo DP with T5 is equal cannon fodder. Your Rhinos are shorter than the DPs, so they can be targeted (albeit with a target priority test).

 

[Moonwatcher]

Cheers for the reply HoRN!

I too am concerned with the range, however im yet to think of a good enough way of fixing that effectivly, feel free to offer sugestions

I would be suprised if my enemy (after upto 120 rapid fire shots into thier ranks) will have enough to charge a significant number of my squads, and if he did, im not sure that would be too bad, and i can then shoot pistols with the non charged squads and pile in for the kill, i appreciate you bringing this strategy to my atention though and im sure it can be playested out!

I understood that a rhino was of a greater height category than the daemon prince (3 vs 2), this was agreed upon by a few people in the local store, however im by no means sure, so any clarification from seniour menbers here would be great!

Again this is exactly the kind of thing i need to help me decide if the list can work or not, cheers!

Moon

 

[HoRN]

Are height categories GT rules or main rulebook rules?

 

[Moonwatcher]

You have got me im affraid, its a rule one of the GW staff told me and people seemed to agree.

We were playing with a mind for tournement play however i just dont know the answer. I tell you what, ill take this particular issue to the rules forum and report back when i get an answer!

 

[Rabbit]

HQs Nice and powerful. MoN on them makes them even more survivable and I would deffinatly recomend it if you have points left over. They van make do without and your tactics of the vehicle screen can make up for them only being T5.

CSMs
Right there are lots of them but terminators will be a problem as will standard marines with a sergent with powerfist. I would reccomend dropping the last squad for 4 powerfist champions in the units.

Remember you don't have to have 10 men in a squad to get 2 special weapons if you make them havoc squads. As you have all 3 heavy slots empty you can fine tune your list to have say 3x10 and 2x8 each with 2 special weapons. Another option is to take one havoc squad of 5 men with 4 flamers and a rhino. It is very cheap (130 points) and rather fun. This could free up more points to beef up the combat power of your 4 main squads. Icons of chaos glory could be useful but including champs in the units makes them Ld10 so getting 4 icons may not be needed if the points can be better spent elsewhere.

Good suggestions Mad Cat. Each in turn:

Nurgle on the princes: While nice, it's not a necessary upgrade. The main thrust of this build hinges on light armor vehicles, which allows sufficient LOS blockage for the princes. What's more, while the princes are the primary c.c. units, an opponent simply cannot afford to ignore 60 marines toting around in rhinos. For this reason, the rhinos should act as fire magnets in some respects for the princes. Funny isn't it? Typically, it's the other way around.

Havoc Squads: Rock solid idea. Flamers, however, are a bit superfluous, once you consider the ridiculous number of botler shots Moonwatcher has brought to the table. As others have commented (including yourself I believe), the list isn't weak against the swarm; it's weak against MEQ and especially termis.