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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Basically been playing around with my 1500 list and thinking of trying out a couple of new things that I haven't before.

Was looking for some general feedback on the list as a whole,
also if my maths is correct i am over by about 70 points just now. I was considering dropping a warwalker and maybe a couple of guardians to fix the points problems but was just wondering if anyone had any other suggestions

HQ

Farseer, Doom 80

Elites

10 Striking scorpions 211
exarch with claw, shadowstrike

5 Fire Dragons 210
Serpent with Stones, EML

Troops

5 Pathfinders 125

10 storm guardians 262
2 with flamers
Warlock with destructor
Serpent with stones, EML

10 Dire Avengers 282
Exarch with twin suricats, bladestorm
Serpent with stones, EML

Heavy Support

Fire prism 115

Fire Prism 115

3 Warwalkers with scatter lasers 180


Comes to 1572

One other thing i was wondering is where people reckoned would be best to put the farseer?

Thanks in advance for any help
 

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Easy fix. Cut the DA's for another SGuardian unit. I'm not a Prism fan, Walkers and Wraithlords do more damage for similar, or lower, cost. I like the Scatter heavy unit you have, an Autarch would really help them out, letting you Outflank for punishment.

I'd bump the Dragons to 6 and the Scorpions down to 8. They'd also love an Autarch, as they can Outflank handily.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
How do you mean with the replacement?
Would it be a plain Storm Guardian squad without a lock this time round or what? Think that I might be a bit confused

I know what you mean with the prisms, I have seen a lot of people saying how great they can be but in practice mine usually just get shot at by everything until they at least can't shoot and generally only get to do anything if I get first turn, included them in this list as I have the models, swinging more in the direction of another warwalker unit with the scatter lasers but just need the money first.

What would the best way be to incorporate the autarch, i've never used one before. I'm guessing that he replaces the farseer?

I will take the scorpion and dragon numbers into my plans, thanks
 

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No replace the DA unit with the same Storm Guardian unit you have now, just have two instead. It saves points.

I'd only add an Autarch if you dropped your Prisms. Hypothetically, you can drop the Prism, add another Walker for 2 units of 2 and add an Autarch with some CC upgrades. Outflank your Scorps, and Walkers with +1 to Reserves. It'd be a biggish change but just something to think about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ok, got you now,

Well it has been a change that I have been considering, the walkers just seem to have much more success than my prisms usually do, might try having a fiddle with it at some point and see what happens

Thanks for all the help
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I ended up testing out and proxying a list based off your suggestions the other night, it ended up being something along the lines of this:

HQ
Autarch, mandiblasters, power weapon, fusion gun

Elites
8 Striking Scorpions
Exarch, Claw, Shadowstrike

6 Fire Dragons
Serpent, Stones, EML

Troops

5 Pathfinders

2 times the following unit
10 storms guardians with 2 flamers
Warlock with destructor
Serpent, Stones, EML

Heavy Support

Wraithlord, Scatter laser

2 Units of
2 warwalkers with scatter lasers


Learnt a couple of things in the battle,
When you have T3, 3 wounds doesn't really make a difference when it comes to strength 6
The warwalkers really need some cover to stand much of a chance when it comes to survival
The wraithlord is great in combat but it is simply depressing when he misses
While I like the pathfinders they simply weren't mobile enough to keep up with the rest of my force

Thinking for further changes to my list, think that for now I might stick with my doomseer as my HQ, Also thinking that I may stick with just the one warwalker unit and possibly drop the pathfinders and with the points freed up from that take a unit of 9 dire avengers with exarch, twin suriken catapults, bladestrom and put them in a waveserpent identical to the one above, I was also going to give the warithloard a wraithsword

I was just wondering what people thought of these plans and how the overall list sounds

Thanks for any feedback
 

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I think your Wraithlord has to take 2 guns a TL gun or a gun and Sword, but I may be wrong. The sword is a really good pick up, because it is sad when he misses.

Walkers are good when Outflanking, it depends what you're facing. If they blow up two transports, they'll probably be fine. I see them being most effective that way.

Yeah don't charge your Autarch into S6 bruisers. ><

Pathfinders aren't supposed to keep up, they're supposed to grab an objective or be a hard KP and stay kept back. Makes it so you don't need to last minute scramble for an objective on your side, as often.

What did you play against?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I was up against daemonhunters, the guy had a dreadnaught with plasma cannon, land raider, 2 squads of 5 standard grey knights with incinerators and justicar, 2 deathcult assasins, a basic inquisitor to allow the assassins, 10 stormtroopers, 4 grey knight terminators with incinerator, grandmaster with 4 grey knight terminators with incinerator

I think that when I was looking at the codex for the wraithlord it had a list of weapons that it had to take to 1 of and then the rest were optional, will double check the next time that I have the codex handy

Well the first unit pooped in quite nicely and took out the dreadnaught from behind before he turned the lascannons of the land raider on them
The second unit when it came I misjudged the placement slightly and lacking much in the way of targets went for the unit of 4 terminators doing nothing and getting charged by them, they somehow managed to kill one in combat and kept them occupied for a couple of turns at least

Autarch wise I forgot the way that the force weapons worked on the grey knights, he ended up in combat with grandmaster and retinue along with the scorpions and wraithlord and rolled abysmally to hit but managed to take one wound off the grandmaster before he turned his attention on him and instant death followed, the scorpion exarch did at least manage to finish off the grandmaster with his claw

The unfortunate pathfinders found themselves some nice cover but then the landraider bore down on them with the grandmaster and his retinue and that that was that, they did at least manage 2 rounds of shooting before this point though, didn't see the point in trying to run away from the inevitable
 

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Sounds like you just got worked by the Land Raider for the most part. Did your Dragons fail to harm it? That's uncommon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The problem was that he advanced everything all the grey knights up behind the land raider with the grandmaster and his squad in it so I was a bit reluctant to send the dragons into certain doom.

I possibly played a bit defensively which translates as running away from the land raider and shredding things when I had line of sight to them but in the end I managed to win the game, it was annihilation and by the end the land raider remained, 3 terminators from the squad of 4, 1 justicar from one of the standard squads
I had the dragons their serpent, one full storm guardian squad their serpent, 4 storm guardians and their warlock, wraithlord
 

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Yeah most of the time your Dragons won't survive a game, that's why you skimp on the upgrades. 6 Dragons is worth a Raider, don't be afraid to toss them at it if you must.
 

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We have almost the most mobile army in the game. kill their mobility (AKA transports) and he will be on foot. that ussaly means a dead marine unit when facing long range dancing eldars
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yeah, the more that I think about it his lascannons on the land raider were about the only things with a really good chance of taking down my wave serpents so I really should have just thrown the fire dragons at it

Ah well, think that I will give that list another try and see if i can do it justice this time round, got a game against tau arranged for next wednesday, not looking forward to the railguns though, what are the stats on them? I can never remember
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Having thought about it a bit more I suppose with the railguns I just need to make sure that they are getting the front of my waveserpents and try and keep my wraithlord and warwalkers out of sight

Anyone got any tips for taking on tau? Never fought them before
 

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lol outflanking walkers shooting into the rear armor of a hammerhead= dead hammerhead. 120pts sacrificed to kill that railgun turret is more than worth it.
 

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The only real weakness that I can see with your list is that it doesn't seem to have much in the way of killing MEQs. I always run 8 banshees in a wave serpent, but I'd be hard pressed to say what you could take out for that. It'd definitely be something to consider when you upgrade the list to 1750 or 2000 points though.

Another suggestion would be to give one of your warwalker units starcannons. I know they aren't nearly as versatile as scatterlasers, but I think terminators could really ruin your day with the current incarnation of your list. This does have the side effect of making them more specialized (and they wouldn't be all that usefull against, say, guard) but I think it's important to have something to take on 3+ and 2+ saves.

I never put too much stock in guardians. I always would choose DAs in favor of guardians, especially when they have transports. I also have found pathfinders to be a bit too expensive. They are excellent for objective holding, but the only times I've ever had them earn their points back is against tyranids. Every other game I think you'll find either a hellhound or deepstriking battlesuit squad with flamers making a mess of them. 2+ cover save just isn't as tough against a decent opponent who knows how to exploit their weaknesses.

Finally, I'd say the best weapon configuration for the wraithlord would be a brightlance, missile launcher, and 2 flamers. I never use mine for cc unless I'm planning on usung him for blocking something, in which case, it doesn't matter that he only has 2 attacks since his job is just to keep the enemy unit in one place. I just find that they can get too easily pounded by that veteran sergent with a powerfist, since even with re-rolls from a wraithsword he just doesn't have enough attacks to kill the squad quickly enough.

That's my 2 cents anyway. Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Banshees are definitely on my to add list, still playing around with things just now but not had too much time to do this recently

While I do agree that the starcannons would be good at taking down terminators and such there is the rather large cost comparison between the 2 units, the appeal of the scatter unit is that it is cheap and that with that many shots even though they are still getting their saves with that many dice they are sure to fail some. One final note starcannon point wise is that I would be reluctant to put that many points into what is a relatively flimsy unit

I do agree on the dire avenger point and I am in the process of trying to reorganise the list to have a unit of them in place of one unit of storm guardians. Pathfinder wise, i like them and find them to be quite effective at taking down MEQs and the 2+ saves that you had mentioned so I intend to keep them at least for just now

The bright lance is appealing on the wraithlord but at the moment I simply don't have the points available to be able to do that, maybe in a future incarnation of the list

Sancraer, I find that destructor is part of what gives the squad the punch, I see it more being the number wounds caused by the 3 flamer templates as what does the main damage to the squads they target rather than their close combat effectiveness
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ok then, heres my latest incarnation of my list, ended up playing this against tau the other night, annihilation, ended up basically wiping him from the board apart from one crisis suit
In return I lost my wraithlord, my fire dragons, 2 rangers and 4 howling banshees
In his defence my opponent was very unlucky with his armour penetration rolls

Just wondering what people thought of this latest version



-HQ-
Farseer, doom, spear
83

-Elite-
8 howling banshees 128
exarch, mirrorblades, war shout, acrobatic 32
serpent, stones, eml
290

6 fire dragons
serpent, stones, eml
226

-Troops-

6 pathfinders
144

10 dire avengers
exarch, twin cats, bladestorm
serpent, stones, eml
282

10 storm guardians
2 with flamers
warlock, destructor, singing spear
serpent, stones, eml
260

-Heavy-

wraithlord
with, twin flamers bright lance, eml
155

3 war walkers
scatter lasers
180

-----
1500

Most of the random upgrades are there just because I had the points kicking around and thought that I may as well use them up

Just as a start point I have seen some suggestion that it might be an idea to downgrade the weapons on the fire dragons serpent but then I am not too sure what I would use the extra points for

Any feedback is more than appreciated, thanks
 
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