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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all,

I've been a big fan of this forum for a while and I've finally decided to get stuck in.

Later this month I've got a tournament coming up, with 1500 point army lists. This list is designed to take on all comers. I will definitely be taking on nids, tau, necrons, and marines (black templars I think). Not sure about the others. I'll put the army list here, tactical notes, and other options worth thinking about that I could have ready in time for the tournament.

HQ:

Sorceror - 2 extra mastery levels, Sigil of corruption, mark of tzeench - 150 points

Troops:

3 CSM squads - 10 marines. 2 plasma guns, champion with lightning claw, CCWs, veterans - 639 points

Cultists - 19 cultists, 1 flamer, 17 autoguns (I'm not sure if the champion is allowed to take an autogun. Is he?) - 108 points

Elite:

Terminators - 4 Terminators, 4 combi-plasmas, 1 power fist, 2 lightning claws, 1 power weapon - 161 points

Fast Attack:

Bikes - 4 bikes, mark of nurgle, veterans, 2 meltaguns, champion with power weapon and melta bombs - 154 points

Heavy Support:

Havocs - 6 havocs, veterans, 4 autocannons -134 points

Havocs - 6 havocs, veterans, 4 missile launchers - 154 points
Total: 1500 points

70 models, 51 MEQ or better

Tactics

Sorc links up with cultists, uses powers to disrupt enemy units, support his own, or nearby friendlies. This makes the 108 point cultists a threatening unit. Thanks to 3+ invulnerable save, should be able to kill most T4 things in assault if they don't kill him first. Sorc could alternatively ditch cultists and join a marine unit while cultists hold an objective.

A tactic I've used before and is great fun is to keep a CSM unit near the cultists. When the cultists are shot at and almost killed in order to get the sorceror, just have him move into the marine unit. Firepower is therefore absorbed by a weak unit, keeping the heat off everything else, and the sorceror stays alive.

CSM marines form core of army, holding objectives or advancing as need be.

Terminators will almost certainly deep strike. Depending on when they arrive, they will disrupt the opposing battle line (opponents almost always panic when terminators deep strike in or near their line, especially not very experienced ones) or help support the marines. They go after weaker units, vulnerable heavy weaponry, lone HQ if they don't support whatever the marines are going after. A tactic I love doing is to deep strike near a weak unit and plasma it to death, therefore giving first blood.

Bikes are another disrupting unit. They can do almost everything the terminators do, but ideally they'll be going after transports and vehicles. Both the bikes and the terminators need to be careful to not get wiped first in the battle.

Havocs shoot things. Autocannons to transports, troops, and flying units. Missile launchers can shoot almost anything, but preferably not flyers.

Strengths

Tactical flexibility, good disruption power, good objective holding, decent firepower with a good amount of AP 1 or 2 weapons, decent close combat ability. I think it's important to have a high model count in general as armies that like to get expensive killy things tend to have a glass jaw. Every unit is roughly equally threatening, so it will be tricky for the opponent to target things appropriately. Also, if a few units die, the army is still flexible and can achieve the necessary objectives the mission requires. The opponent's anti-tank weaponry is also rendered (relatively) harmless and his points are mostly wasted, giving me an advantage.

Weaknesses
Can be outshot, and outhorded. I think IG armies would have a fairly easy time against me. Fortunately, I think I won't be facing them. Flying vehicles also have a pretty easy time, though I think flying monstrous creatures could be handled.

The army is also pretty slow. Anything fast could run rings around my marines, though hopefully the range of my havocs and the speed of my bikes can mitigate that.

Other Options

1.On all CSM units, remove the champion LC and unit CCWs and give the marines mark of nurgle. This allows them to survive better in 12"-24" firefights, which is where they should be anyways. T5 also means that they are tougher in close combat, so the pain of losing extra attacks and attack power is softened a little. I'm very tempted by this, especially since close combat is less trendy these days.

2. Mechanize the army. Remove the havocs for a lascannon predator and defiler. Defiler scares opponent and makes him ignore other threats. Give the marines rhinos by maybe removing their CCWs and champion power weapon/LC. Rhinos are used for tactical flexibility, including LOS blocking, mobility, and objective contesting. However, I think that this isn't enough (5 vehicles) and anti-tank weapons would just have a fun time as they wouldn't have to take on too many targets.

Also, can rhinos contest objectives? More importantly, if they are blown up do they give first blood or a victory point when it's relevant?

Thanks for your help/criticisms/compliments!
 

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Also, can rhinos contest objectives? More importantly, if they are blown up do they give first blood or a victory point when it's relevant?
I am pretty sure that rhinos can't contest objectives since they are vehicles but I know that they are eligible for first blood and for victory points. Also with only three rhinos as the only AV you have on the table it shouldn't be too hard for your opponent to de-mech you since rhinos are not the most sturdy of tanks and they are all his anti-tank will have to target. Yes once the anti-tank are done with that they will be inefficient but then you will have to jog across the board.

On your cultists you might want to consider getting 9 points to put 1 more cultist in your squad so you can have 20 and get a second flamer. (Maybe lose 9 autoguns?) the difference the extra flamer and body will make will make a big difference when it is on a cheap distraction unit.

Most of the more regulated games around where I play require you to write what kind of power weapon you have on the list before the game.

What load out does the terminator champion have? Also I would change out one of the combi-plasmas with a combi-flamer so if you do drop next to a big infantry unit (thinking of the nids) you can fry them or save it for overwatch if you get charged.

I'm at work and don't have my books with me so I will look again when I get home but for now I hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah, that was my logic with the rhinos. And if they can give first blood, then I'm definitely disinclined to take them.

Terminator champion would be a power weapon (let's say an axe, as the LCs serve as good I4 weapons), with a combi-plasma. Though maybe I should change it to a flamer. I'll consider it. In the past combi-flamers have not done too well for me, but flexibility is always good.

I'll see if I can get a second flamer on the cultists. I'll tinker it around and find a way.

Thanks for the help.

What's your take on switching out close combat power for T5?
 

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While the T5 would be nice in my opinion what you would have to give up for it is better than what you would get. Two of the four armies you will be playing have cc as their bread and butter (Nids and BT). As for Necrons I have found the only truely reliable way to take out the squads is in cc. And you don't want to get into a shooting match with tau. I have found that while our normal marines are good at shooting and good in cc they are not spectacular at either. The large squad size will make up for that lack and your upgrades ensure that they should be able to win against most line troops and at least put up a decent fight against the better units.

Something you could try to try and help your rhinos would be to drop the missile Havoks and take a predator with triple lascannons and warp fire gargoyles for 145 leaving nine points for the cultist I mentioned earlier. This gives you more av for you opponent to worry about and with three lascannons (one of which is twin linked) can take out most vehicles. The gargoyles give your lascannons soul blaze so once all of the av targets are gone it can still do a decent amount of anti hoard.

Like before this is just my 2 cents.
 
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