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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I need help on this 1500 chaos list. It will mainly be used for friendly games, however I would like it to be able to do well, or even win, in competitive games.
Here's the list:

-HQ-
Chaos Lord --- Daemon weapon, melta-bomb
135

-Troops-
9 Chaos Space Marines --- Meltagun, icon of chaos glory
Rhino
190

Aspiring Champion --- Power fist
9 Chaos Space Marines --- 2 plasma guns, icon of chaos glory
Rhino
265

Aspiring Champion --- Power fist
9 Chaos Space Marines --- 2 plasma guns, icon of chaos glory
Rhino
265

-Heavy Support-

2 Obliterators
150

2 Obliterators
150

2 Obliterators
150

-Summoned Daemons-

5 Lesser daemons
65

5 Lesser daemons
65

5 Lesser daemons
65

-Total-
1500

All comments and criticism welcome.
Also, I don't mind completely changing anything in the list if it really won't work, as I haven't bought any models yet.

Thanks in advance!
 

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Replace the demon weapon and melta-bombs with a PF, same sort of effect without the chance of no attacks and a wound. Replace the plasmaguns with meltaguns in the CSM squads and add a second meltagun to the first CSM squad. I'd also suggest changing the lesser demon squads to 2 squads of 11, less of a chance for them to get wiped out in one combat, or at least more of a chance for them to tie a unti up for longer.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Replace the demon weapon and melta-bombs with a PF, same sort of effect without the chance of no attacks and a wound
I see what you're saying, but I think giving a p-fist to a lord is a waste of his high(er) initiative. Perhaps twin lightning claws would be better?

Replace the plasmaguns with meltaguns in the CSM squads
Will do.

add a second meltagun to the first CSM squad
I can't: there has to be 10 in the squad to get a second melta, and there is only 9 in this one to leave space for the lord to join in the Rhino.

I'd also suggest changing the lesser demon squads to 2 squads of 11, less of a chance for them to get wiped out in one combat, or at least more of a chance for them to tie a unti up for longer.
Yeah, I understand. If I buy another daemon with the points from dropping the plasma's to melta's I'll have 16 altogether. I suppose I could then divide them into 2 groups of 8?


If I change the lord's daemon weapon for lightning claws I will have another 17 points to spend, any ideas on what to spend it on? Should I even give my lord lightning claws?

Thanks for the help so far Ghost of Rage. :dance:

Any more comments and criticism will be greatly appreciated.
 

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I think the list is pretty good as is. You don't need meltaguns when you have 6 Obliterators on the field and the CSMs will be rapidfiring at most of their targets anyway, so I say keep the plasma. The Lord is also good as is; I would swap the meltabombs for a personal icon in order to have as many viable 'landing zones' as possible for your Daemons. The Lord can still crack anything short of a Land Raider or Dreadnought with an Undivided Weapon. It may be better to combine the lesser Daemons into two squads of 8 and 7--it's always good for CC units to have a high body count, but you should playtest this and see what works for you.

I like your list. It emphasizes tactics over listhammer--always a winning move with me.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for all the help!

I see what you're saying with the personal icon and grouping the daemons.
I'll probably play with them and see which setup works best.

Thanks again,
SomePerson
 

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I gotta agree that the list looks pretty good. The only thing I'd throw at you is perhaps getting some way to deal with hordes. Maybe, swap 2 plasma guns in one squad for two flamers for this purpose. Then throw a combi-melta on the Lord. Each squad then has two special weapons of each kind to deal with something.

But in the end, Bolters deal with swarms anyway, ey? :p

Cool list,
Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hmm, that's a good idea. So then I'll have one melta squad, one plasma squad, and one flamer squad. Also, with the leftover points, I could buy another daemon and have 2 squads of 8.

Cheers! :dance:
 

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I suggest dropping a squad of a Lesser Daemons (or just as many as you need to) and upgrading the 9 man squad to have a PF champion. I know you have the Lord in the squad but a champion adds some extra punch to the squad as well.
 

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I have to agree, drop the meltabombs and get the icon. Give at least one of those squads flamers instead of plasma, or maybe swap the plasma in the Lords unit to a flamer. With him in there you want him to be getting into assault, and firing a plasma doesn't go along with that.

I use lesser demons 2 units of 10, but I would go with 2 units of at least 8. There are 2 reasons for that. First being a bigger unit to help them survive longer. Secondly, if I recall, with at least 8 models, you can get 2 full circles of models on their deployment. This is great when you consider the center one can be at 6" away from the icon, then with 2 full circles that gives you 2 more inches away from center model. Now you have a demon model about 8 inches away from you icon unit, that can assault after landing. Great surprise!

Other then that, list looks great to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The new list:

-HQ-
Chaos Lord --- Daemon weapon, melta-bombs, personal icon
140

-Troops-
9 Chaos Space Marines --- Meltagun, icon of chaos glory
Rhino
190

Aspiring Champion --- Power fist
9 Chaos Space Marines --- 2 flamers, icon of chaos glory
Rhino
245

Aspiring Champion --- Power fist
9 Chaos Space Marines --- 2 plasma guns, icon of chaos glory
Rhino
265

-Heavy Support-

2 Obliterators
150

2 Obliterators
150

2 Obliterators
150

-Summoned Daemons-

8 lesser daemons
104

8 lesser daemons
104

-Total-
1498

Anything else I need to change or is this good?
 

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That's actually looking like a really solid list now.

The only thing that seems a bit out of place, that could maybe maximized is the setup of powerfist with plasmas in the one squad. And the lack of a champion in the unit the lord joins.
So a small suggestion that may or may not be better would be this.
Drop the 2 plasmas to meltas, now with powerfist, that squad can hunt down tanks. (or give them the champ a powerweapon instead to make them infantry killers since you have all those oblits) That gives 10 points either way.

Then drop the powerfist to a power weapon on the flamer unit, with the flamers they are more of an infantry/horde unit killer. This gives another 10 points.

And even though we said get an icon on the Lord, if he is joining a unit with an icon that is good enough. So if you drop his meltabombs and icon, giving another 10 points, 30 totaly. Enough to get a champion with power weapon in the Lords unit.

This does make those two units a little vulnerable if they get tied up with a dread, but you have A LOT of ranged anti tank, one powerfist out there, and well everyone does have krak grenades. ;)
Just a thought, but I like the list it's real solid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm not sure, I think that power fists can be very useful. Not just against vehicles, but against monstrous creatures too. I kind of see what you're saying about a champ in the lord's squad, however I think the lord will be enough.

Also, I have a nifty idea for a conversion on the power fists that will run through the whole army (As I'm making the oblits out of termies and green stuff I can do their p-fists too!), so I don't really want to drop any :dance: .
 

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Now you have a demon model about 8 inches away from you icon unit, that can assault after landing. Great surprise!
Wow, that's a great point! 8 is indeed the minimum to get to second ring during deep strike....I like that sneaky tactic!

I still reckon a combi-melta is a better buy than a forth Icon and Melta bombs. If you get an opportunity to fire your Melta Guns at a vgeichle or MC, i'd rather be shooting two rather than one any day...

No biggy though :p
Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I still reckon a combi-melta is a better buy than a forth Icon and Melta bombs. If you get an opportunity to fire your Melta Guns at a vgeichle or MC, i'd rather be shooting two rather than one any day...
Yeah I agree: the lord will be in the squad with an icon anyway so he doesn't need the personal icon, and he won't need his melta-bombs if he has a meltagun (along with the one already in the squad) to take down the vehicle before it gets into combat. Also, if i remember correctly, melta-bombs can only be used against vehicles, so it would be easier to shoot with 2 meltas than shoot with one and try to knock off another few wounds with a strength 5 daemon weapon...
 

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I think your list looks very solid, but there is one thing that sticks out at me. That's the fact that you stuck your Lord in the meltagun squad. Not only does this make you loose your ability to take two meltaguns, but also renders the Lord kind of useless in my opinion. Since you can only charge what you shoot, your Lord will be wanting to change those nice tempting troops and elites with his Daemon Weapon, while your troops will be wanting to shoot at tanks. To me, this seems counter productive.

You could always break him off from the group, but he's no Daemon Prince, and the meat shield that a squad he is connected to is too good to give up.

I suggest dropping the Melta-bombs and Personal Icon and bringing your Lord to the flamer squad. Drop one flamer, buy a melta, and bring the champ to the melta squad.

I also think this frees up 5 extra points to do whatever with, maybe give the champ in the melta squad those melta bombs, or trim off some points to invest in another champ for the squad your Lord is in and give that champ a Power weapon.

Just my two cents, everything looks really good to me besides that one little thing.
-Rezzie
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for pointing that out Rezzie! My thoughts were that since the lord's squad didn't have a p-fist they'd need anti tank, however I forget they had to charge what they shoot at.

I'm going to get rid of the lord's personal icon, put him in the flamer squad, remove a flamer, add a melta to the other squad, and move the champ to the melta squad. I'm going to keep the melta-bombs on the lord, though, in case he gets charged by a dread or wotnot.
 
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I personally don't agree with thte daemons that csm hve access to these days and so i'd replace them with something like a terminator squad to drop into battle. Ok maybe they can't get into comabt straight away (unless your playing planet strike), which is where the daemons can be useful, but they can be fitted with anti-tank and anti-troop weapons like powerfists, chainfists, combi-meltas and heavyflamers. also with a 2+sv and 5+ (potentially 4+) invulnerable, they have a higher chance of survival which is useful when they act as bait.

So lets see the daemons are 208 points in total so that would probably be at best 4-5 man terminator squad.

5 Terminators 205
-4 combi weapons (stick to combi-flamers/meltas probly 2 of each or 4 of one)
-2 chainfists
-1 heavy flamer

Sadly this does leave you with three points to spare.
 
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The problem with dropping the Daemons is that doing so is dropping 2 scoring units for an Elites choice.

Personally I have the belief that it is okay to swap out one scoring unit for one non scoring unit, since they can still contest objectives, they just can't hold them. But two for one, even one beefed up terminator squad, I think isn't a fair trade off. You are dropping not only the model count, but the unit count, leaving 2 less units to hold objectives and one less to contest them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Do daemons count as scoring units? I always thought they didn't... Well, that's a nice surprise! :dance:

To cypher371, I think I'll pass on the termies. The daemons take on the support role in my army, their main jobs being to tie up enemy units and to contest objectives. Firstly, with the daemons I can divide them into 2 relatively large units of 8, whereas the termies are in a single small squad of 5. This means that they cannot go off and contest 2 objectives, only 1. Secondly, termies cannot shoot or assault when they deep-strike in, whereas daemons can. So right there termies are already delaying one of their main roles by a turn. Finally, daemons appear without scattering. This gives 2 more advantages over termies: they get right into the thick of the action without the chance that they'll end up a in the wrong place; and with termies there's also a chance that they'll scatter really badly and all die. So, in my opinion, daemons are the better option. Oh yeah, and if they are scoring units then that's even better, as they can hold 2 objectives, whereas the termies can just contest 1.

Thanks for the comment anyway. And BTW, I don't want you to feel like I'm shooting you down or anything, I'm just giving reasons why I'd rather take daemons. :)
 

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That's fair enough, I didn't think daemons counted as scoring units either. Surely Termies can shoot when they deepstrike? They've always been able to as far as i'm aware?
 
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