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My backpack has JETS!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I haven't included Shrike in this list because personally I feel Kantor helps it a lot more. He would be representing Captain Corvin Arkham of the RG Fourth Company, perhaps. I can have between 4-8 scoring units and everything can deep strike/infiltrate/outflank.

Kantor
175

10 Sternguard
4 Combi-meltas, 1 Powerfist
Drop Pod
330

10 Sternguard
4 Combi-meltas, 1 Powerfist
Drop Pod
330

10 Scouts
4 Sniper Rifles, 1 Missile Launcher, 5 Shotguns, 1 Meltabomb
155

10 Scouts
4 Sniper Rifles, 1 Missile Launcher, 5 Shotguns, 1 Meltabomb
155

Land Speeder Storm
50

Land Speeder Storm
50

Land Speeder Squadron (x2)
2 Multi-melta, 2 TML
 

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My backpack has JETS!
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Actually, I would much rather have one Drop Pod in reserve. The reason for this is that if you have both Sternguard Pods dropping in on Turn 1, it makes the army rather predictable. All your enemy has to do is choose to go 2nd or reserve everything, suddenly he has the advantage.

As it stands, one Sternguard squad can support any position on the board immediately, while other arrives later in the game once the enemy has played their cards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
You still have that option with 3 pods, only you ALSO get the option of both dropping turn 1 if that's what you want. Currently, you don't have that choice.
You realise that half of all Drop Pods (rounding up) have to drop on Turn 1, right? There's no choice there. Two of them would always come down. If I really wanted both Sternguard squads on the table on the first turn, I could just deploy them on foot as normal.

Besides, I'm not sure how I would squeeze another Drop Pod in. What would you suggest? I've been toying with a Dreadnought in DP, because that Forgeworld RG Ven. Dreadnought is too sexy, but I'm not sure what I could drop without compromising the effectiveness of the rest of the list.

Perhaps reduce the Sternguard squads to like, 6-7 men each. I don't know.
 

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That Which Has No Time
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Good list, Ravendove!

What realitycheque is trying to say: if you had a third pod, you could still only drop one sternguard pod (and the third pod - because, as you have stated, you must drop two) on turn one and save the other sternguard pod for turns two-plus.
It would be nice to have a third pod, but I agree that it is hard to fit one in without reducing something else. Do not ever -if it can be avoided- reduce your podding sternguard to fewer than ten models. The nice extra with drop pods is delivering the entire unit and then splitting it into combat squads in order to engage two different targets. You do not want to give up that ability, believe: it is priceless.

What I am a little worried about is your list's anti-horde effectiveness. All you have is six small blasts per turn (two of them with inferior BS) and a single one-use-only scatters-like-hell orbital bombardment for templates / blast markers. Not a single flamer, not a single (multi-use) large blast, and not too many normal shots either. You lack quantity of shots which -against some armies- is more important than quality of shots.
I don't know how to cope for that, though, so don't ask. ;)

Another thing to consider: you use shotguns on the scouts. Why not use close combat weapons (and shoot the bolt pistols) instead? Half the number of shots, granted, but the shots have an AP-rating and the missing ones are made up for by the fact that you get double the attacks in close combat instead. And remember that those casualties (the ones inflicted in hand-to-hand) count towards the combat resolution -unlike the shotgun kills- thus helping you to force a morale check and sweeping the enemy (making best use of the neat -2 mod for assaulting from the storm).
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Hey Red Archer! Thanks for stopping by, your wise words are always appreciated.

I do realise that there is not a lot of anti-horde here. I would be relying mostly on massed bolter fire and missile blasts. I've also got two Drop Pods with Storm Bolters that can double as horde control, shutting off movement and creating firing lanes. But yeah, it's not enough.

Suggestions for great anti-horde capability while retaining anti-tank:
- Missile Launchers for the Drop Pods, but these are risky with scatter and low range
- Combi-flamers on Scout Sergeants
- Heavy Flamers on Land Speeder Storms
- Combi-flamers in Sternguard Squads (I don't want to remove any Boltguns by buying Heavy Flamers)

What do you reckon?

Another thing to consider: you use shotguns on the scouts. Why not use close combat weapons (and shoot the bolt pistols) instead? Half the number of shots, granted, but the shots have an AP-rating and the missing ones are made up for by the fact that you get double the attacks in close combat instead. And remember that those casualties (the ones inflicted in hand-to-hand) count towards the combat resolution -unlike the shotgun kills- thus helping you to force a morale check and sweeping the enemy (making best use of the neat -2 mod for assaulting from the storm).
Personally, I like to whittle the enemy down a little before engaging in combat. With Storm transports, these Scouts (5 Shotguns + Meltabomb) will often be attacking vehicles or small units on Turn 1 (before vehicles can move or objectives be secured). Any unit assaulted will often be in cover and will go first, so the idea is to take out as much as possible from shooting before assaulting, so I take less attacks on the initial strikes.

What I don't want happening is that the Scouts win the combat by a large margin, because they'll be vulnerable to counter-attack in the opponents turn (when reserves come on or whatever). I want to keep them locked in combat in the opponent's turn, to minimise casualties.

Does that make sense?
 

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That Which Has No Time
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Suggestions for great anti-horde capability while retaining anti-tank:
- Missile Launchers for the Drop Pods, but these are risky with scatter and low range
- Combi-flamers on Scout Sergeants
- Heavy Flamers on Land Speeder Storms
- Combi-flamers in Sternguard Squads (I don't want to remove any Boltguns by buying Heavy Flamers)
All of these are good. But what to add is not the difficult question, rather where to take the points from! ;)
I would refrain from deathwind launchers, the combi-flamers on the scouts probably aren't the answer either (since you want to cause few shooting casualties anyway). Combi-flamers on sternguard are very effective, but the sternguard are also your anti-tank and anti-MC. If you can find the points, though, that would sure be awesome. The heavy flamers on the storms is a very viable option too, more so because it helps cover for the vehicle's lower BS.


Personally, I like to whittle the enemy down a little before engaging in combat. With Storm transports, these Scouts (5 Shotguns + MB) will often be attacking vehicles or small units on Turn 1 (before vehicles can move or objectives be secured). Any unit assaulted will often be in cover and will go first, so the idea is to take out as much as possible from shooting before assaulting, so I take less attacks on the initial strikes.

What I don't want happening is that the Scouts win the combat by a large margin, because they'll be vulnerable to counter-attack in the opponents turn (when reserves come on or whatever). I want to keep them locked in combat in the opponent's turn, to minimise casualties.

Does that make sense?
For the most part, yes! ;)

Remember that your scouts have frag grenades. You will strike at your standard initiative even when assaulting into cover. Your models will not strike at only I1. That's what we're an elite army for: that our soldiers come with grenades standard.

The other thing I worry about is scouts remaining in combat for more than one turn. If they don't kill their target right away (though shooting and assaulting their target) what good are they going to do? How will they ever win combat if not first turn? Everything else is not only wasting the cerberus launchers on the storms, but also somewhat wishful thinking that your scouts will accomplish something they are not made for. They won't last long in close combat: they are only five, and they only have 4+ armor. If they can't kill their target the turn they shoot it and charge it, then they're very likely lost.

Remember that you have the extra attack from the close combat weapons each player turn, so effectively twice as often as the extra shotgun shot. If you assault vehicles on the first turn you will even more so be better off with close combat weapons, because of the possibility of being assaulted yourself. And comparing overall effectiveness: the target unit either has no cover and you can profit from the AP value of the bolt pistol shot and then might have the only expense of your additional close combat attack hitting with a smaller probability than an additional shotgun shot (might be only a 4+ in close combat, against capable target units), but you're still better off. And if the target has cover, then it won't be able to use that save in close combat, where the extra attack thus might be more effective than the additional shotgun shot. Just saying...

I would go bolt pistol and close combat weapon instead of shotguns. But your call!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
All of these are good. But what to add is not the difficult question, rather where to take the points from! ;)
Well, the list above only comes to 1445. So there's some wiggle room there ;)

Remember that your scouts have frag grenades. You will strike at your standard initiative even when assaulting into cover. Your models will not strike at only I1. That's what we're an elite army for: that our soldiers come with grenades standard.
A very good point that I had completely forgotten. You're right of course, I should be gearing these Scouts to deal as much damage in combat as possible. On the other hand, Shotguns look bitching. For this reason I'll be compromising and mixing the two configurations!

Here's the updated list:

Kantor
175

10 Sternguard
4 Combi-melta, 1 Powerfist
Drop Pod
335

10 Sternguard
4 Combi-melta, 3 Combi-flamers, 1 Powerfist
Drop Pod
335

10 Scouts
4 Sniper Rifles, 1 Missile Launcher
2 Shotguns, 3 BP/CCW, 1 Meltabomb and Combi-flamer
165

10 Scouts
4 Sniper Rifles, 1 Missile Launcher
2 Shotguns, 3 BP/CCW, 1 Meltabomb and Combi-flamer
165

Land Speeder Storm
Heavy Flamer
60

Land Speeder Storm
Heavy Flamer
60

Land Speeder Squadron
Multimelta, Missile Launcher
Multimelta, Missile Launcher
200

Total: 1500
 

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That Which Has No Time
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Looking good, Ravendove!
Didn't notice the first list wasn't full 1,500 points. Your scouts were listed with the wrong cost, though, so the list was effectively 1465.

Well, the shotguns look awesome, you are right! A shame they aren't any better. :(
Good compromise of looks and effectiveness you have now, I think!

Anti-horde is better now, too. Just one more suggestion: add another combi-flamer for the remaining spare points and put all three (the two you have and the new one) in one sternguard squad. You can then choose to drop the flamer sternguard squad on turn one or on turns two-plus, and you can use one combat squad from it (the one with the flamers) to seriously take out one horde unit. Better than dropping some flames here and a litte over there, etc...

"Don't fiddle about - ANNIHILATE!" If you get what I mean.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the suggestion. I've also modified the Scout entries to show the Combi-flamer on the sergeant, which I had forgotten to add. It's in the previous post. As far as I know, those scouts are costed correctly. I'm using Army Builder.
 

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That Which Has No Time
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Thanks for the suggestion. I've also modified the Scout entries to show the Combi-flamer on the sergeant, which I had forgotten to add. It's in the previous post. As far as I know, those scouts are costed correctly. I'm using Army Builder.
Never mind me, I can't add. :)

Combi-flamers on the sergeants, hm. Just a personal thought: I'd find the points better invested in more combi-flamers for your sternguard, so that each of your sternguard squads can have 3-4. But that's just taste, probably.

Again: looks nice! Tell me how it worked out. :) Good luck, mate.
 

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they need to make shotguns like assault 4 ap 5 because they have such a crappy range.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I've had a thought. What about replacing one of the Land Speeders (so I have just the one MM/TML Speeder) and using the 100 points to add a Librarian? He would join Sternguard 1 while Kantor would join Sternguard 2, giving them added mobility, combat prowess and augmented shooting. Not to mention psychic defence, at the cost of a little anti-tank and anti-infantry support.
 

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That Which Has No Time
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I've had a thought. What about replacing one of the Land Speeders (so I have just the one MM/TML Speeder) and using the 100 points to add a Librarian? He would join Sternguard 1 while Kantor would join Sternguard 2, giving them added mobility, combat prowess and augmented shooting. Not to mention psychic defence, at the cost of a little anti-tank and anti-infantry support.
Viable!
I'd keep the typhoon, but that's just cause I'm a landspeederphiliac. ;)
No, honestly: in the majority of games those extra two krak missiles per turn will probably be more important than what the librarian does for you. But you can manage without. And in the other games, that librarian will definitely augment your army's performance by a good deal! So if you want him and think he will go well with your Ravenguard fluff, then go ahead!

I am assuming we are talking gate of infinity and nullzone here. That would give the sternguard another push. I don't like librarians in power armor for the lack of an invulnerable save, but well, I see the benefits clearly in this case. I can also see why you want to drop the librarian right from the beginning, but consider this: if you wait for kantor to arrive via normal reserves you are wasting his ability. His aura is priceless, and for him to use his orbital bombardment he needs to be (and count as) stationary, etc... What I would do, is put both the libby and Kantor with the same sternguard squad. The drop pods have the capacity. It may seem like putting all your eggs in one basket, but this kind of already is the case, and putting both in one squad helps you protect that basket from any harm directed at it. Just a thought.

Good luck!
 
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