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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I wanted to see if you guys have any suggestions for what I could change/improve on for this space marine army. I am most likely going to be versing orks. I am using the Ultramarines chapter Tactics.

HQ
Chapter Master
(210)
Artificer Armour
Melta Bombs
Boltgun
The Burning Blade

Elites
Dreadnought (185)
Multi-Melta
Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with built in Heavy Flamer
Venerable
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod with Deathwind Missile Launcher

Vanguard Veteran Squad (170)
2x Veteran with Bolt Pistol and Chainsword
1x Veteran with two Lightning Claws
1x Veteran with Bolt Pistol and Power Axe
1x Veteran Sergeant with Melta Bombs, Bolt Pistol and Power Fist

Troops
Tactical Squad
(235p
10x Space Marines
Heavy Bolter
Flamer
Veteran Sergeant with a Power Sword and Bolt Pistol
Dedicated Transport - Razorback with Twin Linked Heavy Bolter

Tactical Squad
(205)10x Space Marines
Lascannon
Melta Gun
Veteran Sergeant with a Bolt Pistol and a Power Fist

Fast Attack
Assault Squad
(220)
10x Space Marines
2x Flamers
Keep Jumpacks
Veteran Sergeant with Melta Bombs, Bolt Pistol and a Power Fist

Heavy Support Predator (110)
Autocannon
Extra Armour
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Storm Bolter

Whirlwind (65)

Fortifications
Aegis Defence Line
(100)
Gun emplacement with Quad Gun

I was thinking of putting the Chapter Master with the veterans and they go in the razorback for protection and to form my main combat unit with the assault squad supporting them. Then the dreadnought will drop in behind the enemy lines and take out any enemy artillery. The heavy weapons are to stop any enemy Armour and the quad gun will take out his flyers. Should I split the tactical squads into combat squads? The tanks should take out lots of the enemies main troops. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks, Kawell
 

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I would make room for a Rhino for the squad with the Melta Gun. You can lose the Extra Armor on the Predator, and a Drop Pod suicide Dread doesn't really need the Venerable upgrade.

I also gotta ask why you have a Bolter on your Chapter Master. You equipped him to get into melee after all. Speaking of melee, you have to equip him with a bike or jump pack.
 

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Do you want an armored-themed list? Most UM players use a Devastator squad when they're already bringing an ADL. Either way will work, I'm just asking.

Orks won't be very hard to fight unless your opponent uses Nob Bikers.

Should I split the tactical squads into combat squads?
Generally yes, since that large Assault Squad can handle close combat. A solid combination you should consider is using 2 or 3 Rhino/Razorbacks as the core of your advance, with the jump troops following behind. (The TLHBs are a solid budget choice.) The enemy charges your light transports, destroy them and are then left in the open lined up for your flamers and counter-charge. This leaves the scoring passengers free to act.

I don't really like the Vanguard Squad. These days, a Land Raider is almost essential for a dedicated close combat unit and fitting one into the list would require a lot of compromises. A beatstick character is almost as good as a Death Star anyway, for Marines. What do you think about replacing the squad with a 5-man Tactical Squad in a Pod with meltagun and combi-melta? That'll give you both a wildcard scoring unit in the midgame and a second tank-hunter. Some Orks like their big battlewagons-- better to not depend on a single multi-melta.

A simple jump Chaplain may be all the HQ this list needs. Alternatively, replacing the Vanguard with a third Tactical makes Captain Sicarius an interesting choice. Adding the Shield Eternal to the existing Chapter Master will give you a counter to Ork Nobs.

Places where points can be cut as needed:
- Meltabomb and powerfist is a redundant combination.
- Predator can lose the extra armor and storm bolter
- Deathwind launcher
- Venerable status
- The Assault Squad's sergeant upgrades, if the squad has your HQ attached. (For a throwaway challenge character.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
A solid combination you should consider is using 2 or 3 Rhino/Razorbacks as the core of your advance, with the jump troops following behind. (The TLHBs are a solid budget choice.) The enemy charges your light transports, destroy them and are then left in the open lined up for your flamers and counter-charge. This leaves the scoring passengers free to act.
I thought when playing against orks, it would be better to sit and wait for them to come to me? I was going to have everything but the Assault squad, Vanguards and Chapter Master shooting as much as possible then when they get close engage his nobs/warboss in close combat with the vanguards and leave the assault squad and combat squads to finish off any surviving ork units in close combat. I haven't played much 6th ed rules yet so im not great on the rules/strategy of 6th ed yet especially with the new space marine codex.
 

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I thought when playing against orks, it would be better to sit and wait for them to come to me?
I have several thoughts here.

1. It's always better to charge than be charged, especially when your opponent has universal Furious Charge. Using tank shocking and counter-charge tactics optimizes your flamers and allows you to pick your fight against the units you want. This works much better than standing in a line and letting the Ork decide when & where to fight.

2. Engaging the Orks midfield keeps your backfield fire support alive and shooting. The Pred & Whirlwind will die quickly once they're charged.

3. You need options. With mobility comes adaptability. A horde Ork army will play much differently than a Speed Freak army.

4. Many Ork players have given up on their traditional close combat focus and loaded up on the dakka. They aren't going to brazenly charge across an open field, relying on the Waagh to carry them across anymore. I've seen a lot of Ork bikers rolling up a flank while Lootas pound the enemy... the troop Orks might not break cover until midgame.
 

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Changed my list. I am thinking of putting half of each tactical squad (sergeant, 3x marines,flamer marine) into a razorback each and the Vanguards with the chapter master in their own razorback and they advance towards the orks at a 6 inches (not quite sure) per turn? They then fire their heavy bolter and the rest of the tactical squad with the heavy weapons sit back and shoot the orks with the pred and whirlwind.+++ 1500p Space Marine Army for 21/03/14 (1480pts) +++
+++ 1500pt Space Marines 6th Ed (2013) (FW), Fortifications Roster (Primary Detachment, Fortification)) +++

+ HQ + (210pts)

* Chapter Master (210pts)
Artificer Armor, Melta Bombs, The Burning Blade


+ Elites + (345pts)
Dreadnought (145pts)
Multi-Melta
Dreadnaught Power Fist
Heavy Flamer
Drop Pod
Storm Bolter


* Vanguard Veteran Squad (200pts)
Razorback
Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter
* Veteran
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
* Veteran
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
* Veteran
2x Lightning Claw
* Veteran
Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon
* Veteran Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Power Fist


+ Troops + (450pts)

* Tactical Squad (220pts)
Flamer, Heavy Bolter, 9x Space Marine
* Razorback
Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Veteran Sarg


* Tactical Squad (230pts)
Flamer, Lascannon, 9x Space Marine
* Razorback
Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Veteran Sarg


+ Fast Attack + (215pts)

* Assault Squad (215pts)
2x Flamer, Keep Jumppacks, 9x Space Marine
* Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Power Fist, Veteran Assault Sergeant


+ Heavy Support + (160pts)

* Predator (95pts)
Autocannon, Heavy Bolters

* Whirlwind (65pts)


Fortifications (Fortification) Selections:

+ Fortification + (150pts)

* Aegis Defense Line
Gun emplacement with quad-gun
 

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You're a little over budget; think you forgot to add in the Quad-Gun. (By the way, forum rules disallow giving the costs of individual models/upgrades.)

You really don't want to put a serious close combat unit inside a vehicle without assault ramps. It can be done but not easily nor reliably. Going with a mechanized list means a Land Raider would be a very good idea if you have one available. The Godhammer LR would replace the Predator, the Vanguard's Razorback and, if aircraft aren't a major concern, the Aegis as well. Alternatively, what do you think about using a biker command squad instead of the Vanguard? If Orks don't get the charge then they can have a lot of trouble hurting bikes' toughness.

Otherwise, the list is looking good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I think the Land Raider is a good idea, but I need the Aegis line for the Quad Gun. Should I drop the power fist on the assault sergeant, the pred, the vanguards razorback, the drop pod, the melta bombs on the chapter master because he is already strength 7 AP 2 in combat, swap the lascannon for a missile launcher in the tactical squad, and 2 assault marines instead of the defence line?
 

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Hmm, how many fliers do you expect to face? My experience is that Orks don't use them much, since their fliers are all Forge World, but your metagame may be different. That'll determine whether you should have a dedicated anti-air unit or trust the Godhammer Land Raider to multitask.

Should I drop ... the drop pod?
Good question. There's a good chance an Ork player will use a Battlewagon (or whatever their heavy-armor transport vehicle is called) for the same reasons you'd use a Land Raider. Godhammers against the front armor might or might not be enough; an alphastriking multimelta is a safer bet, but it's also a throwaway unit and there's something to be said for footslogging a Dreadnought alongside your vehicles. If we're tailoring the list to oppose Orks, you might instead drop the Dread heavy flamer and the artificer armor-- I've never known Orks to use a power weapon in 6th Edition on account of their poor initiative, so that super-save won't be as useful here.

Your list is probably ready for prime time. We can keep tweaking but my advice is running down to "it depends". Go have fun! And let us know how the battle goes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I played last night, it was fun but I got slaughtered. I rolled terrible. I sent my vanguards in with the chapter master into combat against 15 orks, expecting them to kill enough so the orks wouldn't have anything to fight back with and then my other squads would be able to join the combat next turn. The vanguards and my chapter master killed 1 ork! All those attacks and high strength weapons killed 1 ork! Then it was hit turn to attack and I lost the whole unit including my chapter master. The rest of his 120 ork boys kept swarming my smaller marine squads and vehicles and eventually got through my defence line. It was a fun game but the dice were against me. I like the set up you suggested with the razorbacks but I need more practice with it so I am going to keep using this list so I perfect the strategy as much as I can. It was just a fun, social game anyway but I really appreciate all the help you gave me Intrepid, your awesome. Also thanks to Slayer-Fan123.
 

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Treacherous dice! But you still had fun. Definitely play around with tactics like combat squadding, tank shocking and using vehicles as "walls" to prevent a horde player from hitting too hard in any one spot. Maybe Scouts or something to experiment with flanking. Onward to victory!
 
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