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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So I've never been to a Games Day event and I'm planning on going to the one in Baltimore, assuming it will be there in 2008. Based off of last years rules I've created a list, but I haven't play-tested it at all. I'm just looking for initial thoughts

HQ(1 Slot)
Haem, Scissorhand, Stinger, Shadowfield, Crucible of Malediction
Haem, Scissorhand, Destructor, WWP
Haem, Scissorhand, Destructor

Elites (2 Slots)
Wyches(9), wych Weapon (9), raider armed with disintegerator w/ haem, slave Snares, Torture AMP (Total 202)
Wyches(9), wych Weapon (9), raider armed with disintegerator w/ haem, slave Snares, Torture AMP (Total 202)

Troops (3 Slots)
Support Warriors(10), D.Lance(2), Blaster(2), Sybarite, TerrorFex, S.Pistol, ccw (TOTAL 131)
Support Warriors(10), D.Lance(2), Blaster(2), Sybarite, TerrorFex, S.Pistol, ccw, WWP (TOTAL 181)
Assault Warriors (9), S.Cannon, Shredder, TerrorFex, sybarite, agonizer, s.Pistol, raider armed d.Lance w/ Haem (TOTAL 188)

Heavy (3 Slots)
Talos(2)
Scourge(5), S.Cannon (4), sybarite, S.Rifle, SS.Ammo (TOTAL 176)

TOTAL ARMY POINTS:1500

The idea here is that of the Tortured soul. I'm going to do some conversion on the raiders so that on the bow of each ship will be a Tortured soul like on real sail ships, modified to the DE experience. Talos because they are tortured souls, etc , etc for various wargear. But for take on all allcomers, what do you think of this list?

Stratgies:
I was thinking rush with the wyches and provide support through the support troops. The assault troop will follow the wyches. Deploy wwps close enough to the enemy line and then the tali will come out. Scrouges to supply support for wyches.

Grots have come up to add into the list but I'm not sure how to employ this, I haven't worked with them, and to say the least the wyches, wwp, talos will all be new to me.
 

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HQ
3xHaem Scissorhand (3) Stinger Destructor (2) Shadowfield Crucible of Malediction WWP
You have to rewrite this column I do not understand which haemo has what. Drop the shadowfield and crucible of maledicition, they are not worth to put on a haemo.
Elites
Wyches, 9 wych Weapon (9) raider w/ haem disintegerator slave Snares torture AMP 202
Wyches, 9 wych Weapon (9) raider w/ haem disintegerator slave Snares torture AMP 202
These wyches need their succubus equiped with an aggoniser. Drop the slave snares and torture amp and the dissies, we do not need expensive raiders, do not really like the idea of a haemo flying with wyches either.
Troops
Support, 10 D.Lance(2) Blaster(2) Sybarite TerrorFex S.Pistol ccw 131
support, 10 D.Lance(2) Blaster(2) Sybarite TerrorFex S.Pistol ccw WWP 181
assualt, 9 S.Cannon Shredder TerrorFex agonizer sybarite s.Pistol raider w/ Haem d.Lance 188
You have to decide what your 3 warrior squads are going to do, at the moment they are a mixy milkshake with no specific task, not efficient. You either want a sniper squad (10 warriors with 2 dark lances), or an assault squad (9 warriors with 2 Blasters, always take blasters they are cheaper and better, 2 Splinter cannons and 1 sybarite with an aggoniser and splinter pistol). Do not try to mix them. Drop the terrorfexes.
Heavy
Talos, 1 100
Talos, 1 100
Scourge, 5 S.Cannon (4) S.Rifle SS.Ammo sybarite 176
Drop the scourges, they are just one of our many dust collectors and do not fit in a WWP army. Though if you think they are a great fun keep them I guess.
The idea here is that of the Tortured soul. I'm going to do some conversion on the raiders so that on the bow of each ship will be a Tortured soul like on real sail ships, modified to the DE experience. Talos because they are tortured souls, etc , etc for various wargear. But for take on all allcomers, what do you think of this list?

Stratgies:
I was thinking rush with the wyches and provide support through the support troops. The assault troop will follow the wyches. Deploy wwps close enough to the enemy line and then the tali will come out. Scrouges to supply support for wyches.

Grots have come up to add into the list but I'm not sure how to employ this, I haven't worked with them, and to say the least the wyches, wwp, talos will all be new to me.
hmm.. well the thing is that you have paid for 2 portals ( a total amount of 100 points) just to warp the talos, really inefficent. have everything but the haemo with the WWP and the other WWP carrying portal squad, maybe the sniper squads, and maybe a squad of grotz or one talos to protect them, when they have deployed the WWP, warp in all the others and theyll be able toget into CC without the worry of getting shooted.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Haemo Breakdown

All three get the scissorhand

the two Haems riding with the wyches get the destructors for anti cover.
I armed the raiders like they were for extra anti infantry support for the wyche, along with the point of once they drop their cargo they can be harassment for non-DE units through either the slave snares or the torture amp.

The last haem will be on board with the assault group of troops carring wwp, shadowfield, and the crucible, I've never use the crucible and thought it would be good against psychics like farseers.

Scourges I think provide an excellent thinning-out unit for the wyches so that the wyches don't have to work as hard. this or course could spell disaster for them if they win assault in my turn.

I wanted the support groups to support the rest of the army with the terrorfex so that eventually it would only be my turn for the game because the rest of my opponents units are either pinned or tied up. But if they are close enough to shoot the terrorfex they are close enough to shoot the blasters. In writing this it kinda makes them having d.Lances a hindrance, but if the army is fearless then the d.lances are helpful.

So basically my army has to many Ideas in strategies and I should focus on one and go from there. But what makes an all-comer army good? I would assume that it's ability to be flexible in strategies but at the same time be able to focus on what it's main purpose is?
 

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All three get the scissorhand
Ok good.

I armed the raiders like they were for extra anti infantry support for the wyche, along with the point of once they drop their cargo they can be harassment for non-DE units through either the slave snares or the torture amp.
I would use the dark lances instead.
The last haem will be on board with the assault group of troops carring wwp, shadowfield, and the crucible, I've never use the crucible and thought it would be good against psychics like farseers.
Yes it's not a bad item, though at a tournament where you don't know who you are going against it is not worth the points.
Scourges I think provide an excellent thinning-out unit for the wyches so that the wyches don't have to work as hard. this or course could spell disaster for them if they win assault in my turn.
Try it, but think about how many raiders you can get for the same price.

I wanted the support groups to support the rest of the army with the terrorfex so that eventually it would only be my turn for the game because the rest of my opponents units are either pinned or tied up. But if they are close enough to shoot the terrorfex they are close enough to shoot the blasters. In writing this it kinda makes them having d.Lances a hindrance, but if the army is fearless then the d.lances are helpful.
I stand to what I said before about the 2 different warrior squads and that it is a "hindrance" to mix in warrior squads, though try it if you want.

So basically my army has to many Ideas in strategies and I should focus on one and go from there.
Exactly
But what makes an all-comer army good? I would assume that it's ability to be flexible in strategies but at the same time be able to focus on what it's main purpose is?
If you are new to DE then you should just try out all your own strategies and compare them with the "standard" ones. In most cases you will see that the standard ones are going to be superior. It is really hard to mix DE mainly because of their light armour. thats why we want to get the wyches and all other CC monsters into CC as fast as possible to create LoS, to protect not only our gunners but also our CC monsters.

You really have to decide whether you are going to make a WWP army or a raider army or a reaver army. Can't really help you if you wanna mix all the armies. Though that maybe is best to try out your ideas and strategies.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
If you are new to DE then you should just try out all your own strategies and compare them with the "standard" ones. In most cases you will see that the standard ones are going to be superior. It is really hard to mix DE mainly because of their light armour. thats why we want to get the wyches and all other CC monsters into CC as fast as possible to create LoS, to protect not only our gunners but also our CC monsters.

You really have to decide whether you are going to make a WWP army or a raider army or a reaver army. Can't really help you if you wanna mix all the armies. Though that maybe is best to try out your ideas and strategies.
Awesome, thanks for the help. I'll playtest around and see what happens.
 

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Archite of Caerbannog
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A word about slave snares - in my last game I used 5 of them and none of them were able to get close enough to use them. I tried and figured that the cargo would get shot first but the enemy always found a way to down the closest raider.

However, I have had success with them but only when I tried only 1 raider with it. For some reason only 1 raider will ever get close enough to use it and I am yet to have 2 separate raiders both try it.

Good luck to you and please tell use if you can get more than 1 raider to use the snares.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Will do. I'm planning on playtesting in March till June. Gathering materials, assemble them , prime them until March. So until then...
 

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I am going to be doing the same Seeker, got your PM too. I still cant decide if taking the WWP will cause a huge point reduction in army comp (since people think it is cheesariffic) but we'll see.

List looks good, different then what I am planning so we can compare notes of the coming months and bang our heads together.

I want to see a DE player at least place in one of the GTs this year (one of my unofficial new years resolutions).
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
A talk with Katie Drake

So, I played Vassal with this list lots of times. Any it wasn't until I played this one player named joe who played drop guard and lysander lists that I got fed up and needed to change the list. Fortunately I had the pleasure of Katie Drake watching the game and was able to comment on my list.

So the revamp:
Kabal of the Tortured Soul Dark Eldar


HQ(2 Slots)
Haem (1)(Destructor, WWP) 90
Archon (Shadowfield, Punisher, Tormentor Helm, Combat Drugs) 135

Troops (3 Slots)
Support (10) (D.Lance(2) )100
Assault (16) (S.cannon (2), Blaster (2), Sybarite, CCW, S.Pistol,WWP)214
Support (10) (D.Lance(2) )100

Elites (3 Slots)
Wyches (8) (wych Weapon (8), succubus, Agonizer, Plasma grenades, Raider/diss) 193
Wyches (8) (wych Weapon (8), succubus, Agonizer, Plasma grenades, Raider/diss w/Archon) 193
Grots (5) (Raider w/dlance w/haem)130

Heavy Support(3 Slots)
Talo (1) 100
Ravager (1) (diss (3)) 120
Ravager (1) (diss (3)) 120

Points Summary:
HQ: 225
Troops: 414
Elites: 514
Fast Attack: 0
Heavy Support: 340
Total: 1493



This army still reminds true to the design of the name. Took out the one talos and now I will use him as a surprise I have one, like I have been doing. The wyches now have the coveted succubi in them. I tooled up an archon to accompany them. I took out the Haems in those wych groups because they weren't winning many fist fights (however the destructor has rave reviews). Plasma grenades, can the succubus have them and then it helps the entire squad? I just don't have the points to add them to the entire squad.

Even though I lose a lot of flavor with the army, I did add a little more flavor then what I had before with the addition of the Grots. I took out the sacrifice unit and made it a footlogging portal carrier.

We'll see how well they do.
 

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In general I dont think its a smart idea to use a WWP in a torunament setting, especialy in something big like Games Day. Too many players are simply too experience in 40k for the WWP to have any surprise for them so you run a very big gamble when fielding it.

Issue 1: Regarding the archon, the setup is standard but he needs plasma grenades. When assaulting with him, the enemy is very likely to be in cover and you dont want to get slammed by a mass of Str 3 and 4 hits that will overwhelm the shadowfield. With plasma grenades he will at least kill the things in BtB contact with him before they attack thus reducing retaliation attacks.

Issue 2: I stated it before, I realy suggest you drop the whole WWP concept. Too much uncertainty and too much unpredictability, because you arent going to be playing clueless 10 year olds. Besides, you are spending 150 points on WWPs in your army which you can be spending on much more important things like a third ravager.

Issue 3: Horrorfex is going to be the most useful weapon when playing guard, Tau and orks. Take it into consideration, because in a tournament game it will be of much more use than a disintigrator.

Issue 4: I understand that you want you ravagers to go after infantry but it wont always be the case whether you want to or not, since many mobile tau and eldar armies will try to counter your movement with hammerheads and falcons that you have no way of hurting unless you have a lance. Rule of thumb is to have a lance and two disies, this way you can at least be prepared for anyting that comes at you because in a tournament you dont always have the initiative.

Conclusion: Please dont take this the wrong way but I really think that this is a horrible list to use for a tourney setting, and I very strongly advise you drop the whole WWP concept because too many experience players know how to counter it. Problems that I see include lacking a static firebase, the punch coming from the inside of the WWP is too weak (Only a wych unit, talos and lord) and lastly the grot unit holds absolutely no place in the list. There is absolutely nothin to confuse the enemy about who has the WWP since there are only 2 raiders in the whole army, and both a very likely to be the number one target of the enemy destroyers, battlesuits, sentinels and artilery pieces. A player with good eyes will spot the haemy in the warrior unit and will probably also know why its there. The reason why raiders are so darn good is because you dont need to tell the player whats in it, and neither do you have to put the models on it so the oponent will be pretty much guessing at which raider to shoot at.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I dunno

So, I've been running my list on vassal. And I'm feeling very timid. My shooting sucks (I've been rolling and haven't been getting much luck. I've been sacrificing goats and chickens and it doesn't seem to work. Please to not take me literally here I'm not actually killing animals, I'm just writing it up on the screen), I can't seem to do any real damage with the guys I have on the table. Ususally it's the 2 guys and thier squad who have the WWP and then the 2 sniper squads. Usually, all these guys kick the bucket before anyone really comes out of the portal. I mean, I keep them in cover and take some pot shots, but I'm still not really winning anything. Am I going about it the wrong way, am I playing the WWP right? I just don't know.

Advice on tactics would be nice.

I was thinking of changing out one portal so I can give my wyches some grenades, and possibly some haywires.
 

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Archite of Caerbannog
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Although its been a while since the last post I am going to make some comments on this list as it looks as though you need some direction with the list you have. I am going to give you my thoughts but understand I want you to be happy with your choices as well. So I will give you the “play the list as is” advice (in blue writing) along with my overall opinion (in red writing) on your choice selections. Here we go!

First, let me say that 1500 is tough for me to play with a WWP – I am usually playing a “rush” type list as I would rather have the extra bodies rather than the wwp’s. I usually don’t bother with wwp’s until I get to 2,000 points where I can adequately put enough units on he board to set the wwp’s and have them supported and still have enough points in the warp to come out and hammer the enemy. At 1500, it’s just plain tough and with the game length being unpredictable you might need all 6 turns to win - not good in a tourney level as I hear they don't always play 6 turns depending on time.

Haem (1)(Destructor, WWP) 90
This is fine, I would give him scissorhand and start him on the raider of grotesques as you indicated. I would definitely use him to get a good aggressive portal location for a 2nd turn drop of the portal. Preferably, move the raider 12”, disembark into cover with the grotesques and declare the Haemy separated from the grotesque squad. So the haemy is not attached the grotesques and the grotesques are on their own. This shields the Haemy from assault and big arms fire and if the grotesques do take a morale test even though they are getting a cover save from str. 6 weapons. The grotesques may run but their purpose is soley for the deployment of the portal. If you don’t think there are any big guns that can hit them then you can go ahead and leave him attached to the grotesques. If this unit gets destroyed early then go ahead and drop the portal with the warriors as a back-up measure to ensure you get at least one portal open.

Since tournaments may be playing mission levels I would not assign him to the grotesques as if the mission level is “omega” and escalation is involved then the Haemy and Grotesques would be starting in reserve – your portal carrier would be in reserve! Too risky and a big waste so I would do one of the following:

1. Assign the grotesques on a raider to the Archon and leave the Haemy on foot so in escalation missions he can start on the board in all mission levels. If it is an escalation mission then he can run with the warrior squads for protection.
2. Or, drop the grotesque’s raider and put both the grotesques and the haemy on foot so they both can start on the board in all mission levels. You will lose the ability to get the portal deep but I find in most mission like “Cleanse”, “Take’n hold” and “search n’ secure” (loot counters) you don’t need a raider to get a good spot for a portal – you just need to get the portal location within 12” of them.
3. Or, Drop the wwp entirely, get another Haemy and add more grotesques (so you got 8 grotesques and 2 haemys on the same raider. Use them to fire their destructors as long as possible using the grotesques as a “meat shield”. Assault infiltrators and light troops only when you have to. I would consider using this squad to hold objectives as well.


Archon (Shadowfield, Punisher, Tormentor Helm, Combat Drugs) 135
I think you are missing the 3rd most important piece of wargear you can ever give a lord like this, plasma grenades. This preserves his god-like initiative when charging into cover and you do not want to waste a drug dose to strike first. For a measly couple of points you can assure he will striking first against 98% percent of the time.

This guy is kinda lost in a list like this as he has no sure-fire mode of transportation if you are going to put him in the portal. He might make one of the wych raiders if they both become available but I suppose I would probably consider just having him come out of the portal on foot and charge into action solo. What were you doing with this guy before?


To give this guy a guaranteed ride, I would assign him to the grotesque’s raider. This allows the Archon to come into play on a raider. He can move 12” from the portal, disembark with the grotesques off the raider, an option is to separate from the grotesques if you want to, fleet of foot and then charge 12” with drugs. You are using the grotesques as a “launch pad” to hurl your lord into the enemy’s lines. The grotesques will just sit there however so if you can drop them off near an objective (preferably in cover) they can at least be holding an objective.

If you decide to drop the whole wwp idea entirely I would put him on one of the wych raiders OR with the grotesques who are lead by a Haemy. If one of the wyches do get the random combat drug of 12” charge then he will start on this raider for sure.


Support (10) (D.Lance(2) )100
Support (10) (D.Lance(2) )100

I am sure you know what to do with these guys – I am not crazy about them. I would easily combine them to make another warrior squad like the other.


Assault (16) (S.cannon (2), Blaster (2), Sybarite, CCW, S.Pistol,WWP)214
Love this squad. I run 2 of these squads a lot and they are multi-purpose. They make a good “tar-pit” unit and can be used as a fire-base as well. I would consider dropping 3 of these warriors to get the agoniser for the sybarite. The idea is for this squad to advance of the field shooting or providing CC support for the wyches. If anything, give the sybarite a poison blade and rifle.

Wyches (8) (wych Weapon (8), succubus, Agonizer, Plasma grenades, Raider/diss) 193
Wyches (8) (wych Weapon (8), succubus, Agonizer, Plasma grenades, Raider/diss w/Archon)
Great as is. Be sure to list the pistol for the succubus. Not sure if you gave all the wyches plasma but if I were you I would be sure to give them all grenades. Again, don’t waste that wonderful initiative when you charge into cover (and that plasma is even cheaper for them as well!). Another option to consider is if your wyches are starting in the portal I find the wyches can usually land close enough to the enemy to fire blasters. This is just an option as I find they don’t need to fleet as much and they do have time to fire blasters. The cost of the blaster upgrade is wonderful and it does add an extra punch and anti-armor threat to the list.

If you drop the portals entirely then no need for blasters as you will need to fleet to get into assault. Be sure to hide them well.

Grots (5) (Raider w/dlance w/haem)130
As mentioned above, they are a meatshield for the haemy. If you stick to the plan of the Haemy with the grots then just realize that they may both be starting in reserve. I am liking the idea of giving this squad to the Archon more and more.

If you drop the wwp idea entirely then bump them up to 7 or 8 and either put both the Archon and Haemy together on this raider or get another Haemy for dual destructor fun. For the Archon, this is merely a temporary assignment as the Lord will “launch” himself into the enemy lines if possible if he is with the grots.

Talos (1) 100
When I run 1 Talos then he starts on the board. He is positioned with the other wwp carriers and his job is to draw as much fire as possible (fire-magnet) and protect the portal carriers. In your list he can run (float) with the warriors and be used as a counter-charger until the portal is opened. Once the portal is opened and everyone is out he can float towards the objective and play the mission. In “omega” missions you have no choice but to put him in the portal which fine as there is not a lot on the board that can threaten the large warrior squads anyway if you play them right.

I like this guy as a fire-magnet. I don’t usually put it in the portal until I run 2 or more of them in which case they work wonderfully in tandem with each other.

Ravager (1) (diss (3)) 120
Ravager (1) (diss (3)) 120
Great for crowd. For your list I would definitely put them in the portal and if you really want to then just put one in portal. This unit is a high priority to the enemy and if they win “first move” then he may shoot them down early in the game. At least in the portal, they will be guaranteed to fire first when they come out and chances are the enemy will be out of their hiding places by the 3rd turn.

I would seriously consider at least putting one dark lance on each raider. This added dark lance makes the ravager a little better at anti-armor and still keep its crowd-control ability. With your list, you don’t need 3 dissy’s – the wyches, lord and talos are all dedicated to close combat so give a little more attention to anti-armor. For me, their first priority is anti-armor. Once the armor is neutralized then I can consider it for crowd-control. Idea being, once the enemy’s armor is gone there will not be much to worry about and thus be able to move the ravagers so you can fire all the guns at full power.


Plasma grenades, can the succubus have them and then it helps the entire squad?
My answer to that is no but many will argue it. I don’t play it that way at my store so you need to ask the organizers where you are playing. I would drop either warriors or wyches to get plasma for the entire group – its that important to me.

Hope that helps, good luck and happy hunting!
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Thanks Kwig for the advice.

Before you commented I actually dropped one of my WWP and put a DL on both my Ravagers. I dropped the WWP so that I could put p.Grens on one wych squad and haywire on the other seeing how my list lacks anti-armor attacks. My lord typically rides in with one of the wyche squads depending on the drug result and who I want to attack. I also put P&H.Grens on my archon to help either squad seeing how it will be unlikly the lord will be trying to hit a vehicle with his punisher.

I just finished a battle with tau in a S&C Alpha mission. My opponent put a lot of size 3 terrain down. I on the other hand, put other sizes, which is great for variety in terrain for the game. However, I'm quickly realizing that I should forget putting down size 2 forests and start putting down size 3 so that I can keep my guys alive for a bit longer.

And the haem, as far as arming him with scissorhand, as a portal carrier I'm not expecting him to go into combat so I didn't arm him with the scissorhand. Also, you can disembark and declare that he is not part of the squad?

Now with all this new information, I'm first going to try my luck when I start putting size 3's down and see what happens. If my results don't change that much, I'll go on to changing my list. Thanks Kwig:-D
 

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Archite of Caerbannog
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you can disembark and declare that he is not part of the squad?
You can declare separation during the movement phase as you also disembark. However, some might insist on a 2" separation to show that they are seaparated - I think that is proper. I do get "sloppy" sometimes and leave the IC within 2" but I also make sure my opponent knows that when I place them on the board that the IC is no longer attached.

So unless there is a rulez lawyer here that tells me different I am pretty sure its perfectly legal. I am open to different interpretations if they are well founded.

Now with all this new information, I'm first going to try my luck when I start putting size 3's down and see what happens. If my results don't change that much, I'll go on to changing my list.
First, setting up terrain is 25% of the game to me. Dark Eldar thrive in lots of level 3 terrain (which explains why I love Cities of Death). A bad setup of terrain can actually determine your fate from the 1st turn so insist on 25% terrain and always demand to place the terrain down yourself (I have lost many a battle because I got too lazy and just played on a pre-setup table).

I am not sure why you would want to place down level 2 terrain. I always go for level 3 and at our store forests are always level 3 (so I love them). Level 3 area terrain hides my raiders and I will always set some up at the front edge of deployment zone so my raiders are as far forward as possible and completely hidden.

Once I put 1 or 2 (mostly 2) level 3 terrain for my benefit I will place some at 24" (the middle) so my raiders can move 12" and disembark its passengers. Having the passengers get into cover ASAP is vital as Raiders are one-time transports and I will always elect to disembark rather than stay on board. Laying the terrain in staggered "stepping stone" fashion makes life easier.

Sometimes the opponent will neglect his side of the table and since you do not know what side you will end up at I keep a careful eye on the level 3 terrain on his side of the table as well. I have lost the setup roll a couple times where my opponent switched sides giving me his poorly setup side and him taking the well organized side. So if he doesn't put some down on his end I will place some there as if I was going to be starting there.

Thanks Kwig:-D
Kwi, Kwikwag, Grumpy Kwi, and so on is fine although Kwig is sounding good to me!;Y
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Status Update

So it is now April. And all I have to show for it is:
2 sniper squads, assembled
1 large assault squad Assembled
2 wyche squads Assembled
2 ravagers waiting to be assembled.
1 talos to assemble.
2 raiders to assemble.
1 raider is sitting half assembled.
None are primed, none are painted.

But alas, I don't have stuff on wyches to represent the grenades they have on them, and the transports aren't even close to being done. I don't have any models for my grots I want to field. I can't figure out whether I want to make the victim on the front of the raiders to be made of green stuff and if not green stuff, what figure to base it one.

Theres a lot of work that needs to be done, And I just don;t think I can get it all done to join the tournament this year, I could have it all assembled by Games Day, but as far as being able to use it in the tournament, I think that is a flop.

To be frank, I wan;t working on the army all the time. I have real life to do, so I wasn't spending all my time on them. Should have I? Well My answer is no, there's more to life then Warhammer. If I wanted to be serious about competing in the tour though, my answer should have been yes. Though I must say for what I wanted to do modeling wise, I chose a very ambitious time line for getting stuff done.

Don't know what to say to make it better other then, I've managed to expand my army. I'll use what ever I have for an army to play with so I have a lot of models. I'm pleased with that because now I have 2 wyche squads and an incubi squad. I think that is a plus no?
 
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