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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just wanting some feed back and ideas on how to play this. Just something I thought up and liked the idea of

Farseer 100
Spiritseer -Runes of warding -80

x3 Windrider jetbikes - Shuriken cannon -61
x3 Windrider jetbikes - Shuriken cannon -61

x5 Wraith guard -160
x5 Wraith guard -160

Wave serpent -Scatter laser, holo fields -135 (contains wraith guard)
Wave serpent -Scatter laser, holo fields -135 (contains wraith guard)

Fire prism -Holo fields -140
Fire prism -Holo fields -140

Wraith Knight -Suncannon/scattershield, scatter laser -300

Now, I know the Wraith Knight is the biggest point sink. Assuming I roll ok for psychic powers I will be spamming fortune and Renewer on the Wraith Knight to keep it soaking hits. If I need to I can run it up there wise it sits back and blows away battle suits and terminators. Meanwhile Fire prisms are killing tanks and clumped infantry. Wave serpents shoot where needed and drop off Wraith guard. Windriders pop in and out of cover shooting (not necessarily in cover but so that they are completely obscured from being shot). I feel like I could get so much more for the wraith knight (I know I could) but how do you guys think this list would go? XD
 

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D-Scythe Wraithguard are 210 points...

I would highly recommend dropping the Fire Prisms for War Walkers. You will appreciate their firepower immensely. Take 2 with Starcannon and Scatter Laser and 2 with Brightlance and Scatter Laser.

I would drop the Holo-fields completely in order to use the points elsewhere. Having more shooting and purchasing upgrades is going to be more important.

I am curious about how you are going to run the Farseer and Spiritseer and keep them with the Wraithknight in order to keep the powers up. You can't run them in the Wave Serpents as you can't cast your powers from them to him from inside. If you are running them out in the open, I highly suggest putting the Farseer on a Jetbike and giving him a Spear. Overall the Spiritseer is just there to get your Wraithguard as troops. I would drop the Runes from him and use the points, along with the points from the Shuriken Cannons on the Jetbikes and Holo-fields on the Wave Serpents use them to buy the Mantle of the Laughing God for the Farseer (so that he can be out harassing your opponent and buffing your Wraithknight). This will also give your opponent a 2nd annoyance target that will soak lots of shooting for you. You might also look at taking the Wraithknight as the Warlord so that he can get the Warlord Powers as well (since you are using the Iyanden rules).

Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It does thank you. In regard to the D-scythe your right lol I cant read. Another option was replacing the windriders with Dire avengers. I play A LOT against tau with a million marker lights so I find I cannot rely on cover saves. I do love war walkers though. Thanks A lot :D
 

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with the changes to psychic powers, I don't think the farseer and spirit seer are gonna be very effective and are a waste of points... I take two farseers and only count on getting one power off..

I agree with marker, you should drop the holo-fields, switch the fire prisms for war walkers, and drop the cannons on the bikes. I don't like the suncannon wraithknight, a naked wraithknight is more competitive and it gives your list some needed high strength ranged shooting. Also, at 1,500 points sinking 100 points into two 3 dude bikes squads is a waste. you should run:

spirit seer
5 wraithguard
wave serpent: scatter lasers, shuriken cannon
5 wraithguard
wave serpent: scatter lasers, shuriken cannon
10 guardians: shuriken cannon
wave serpent: scatter lasers, shuriken cannon
5 warp spiders
2 war walkers
2 war walkers
wraithknight
 

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I agree with marker, you should drop the holo-fields ... drop the cannons on the bikes. I don't like the suncannon wraithknight, a naked wraithknight is more competitive and it gives your list some needed high strength ranged shooting. Also, at 1,500 points sinking 100 points into two 3 dude bikes squads is a waste. you should run...
Sorry, but I don't agree with several things mentioned here.

Comparison:
3 Bikes with cannon: 61 points, don't get instant death'ed by plasma guns, have a 3+ save, 3 s6 shots, all catapult shots are TL and they can move 48" with jink saves as well.
5 DAs: 65 points, 4+ save, maximum 12" movement, get instant death'ed by plasmas, no anit-armour capabilities, no cover saves.
The guardians shape up better on their own, with a weapons platform, but in a tank you are paying 220 points, which for low toughness, high save models is a tad excessive. Even on their own, they are only 10 points off a fire dragon squad, which brings 5 s8 weapons to the table.

When mounted in a tank, the unit (the DAs) is useful, but points for points they just aren't nearly as good. The cannons on the bikes are only 10 points and give a way to counter light armour.

You will not be able to get the shuri cannon shots off from the tanks. Unless that was drastically changed in 7th, there is just no point running a cannon on the serpents.

At 1500 points, you shouldn't run a wraithknight. Sorry to say this, but for competitive play, it is just too big a target, and gets wrecked by poison. In addition, the range is pretty bad on the stock guns, and they are only two shots.

I would highly advise:

1. Dropping one wraith squad for ten fire dragons, plus an exarch. Only a couple more points, and you will be dealing 11 melta shots.
2. Dropping the wraithknight. I love them too, but I learnt the hard way that they get wrecked in competitive play. Poison, combined with being the biggest thing on the table = massed firepower = no more mister cuddles. Don't kill mister cuddles. Not cool.
3. Adding some spiders, or other fast heavy hitters.
4. Picking up a mantle-bike-spear farseer for ultimate distraction tactics.

Have fun, post your results, and I hope this helped! :)
 

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I respectfully disagree with puganaut

1) ... bikes do get instant deathed by plasma?? they only have 1 wound and in the new rules if you jink, you can only snap fire next turn, which really hurts using bikes offensively...

2) the whole point to taking the DA or guardians is to get a wave serpent.... DA/guardians in a wave serpent are infinitely better than 6 jetbikes... dont understand what you're trying to argue there?

tanks got harder to kill in the new rules too

squads of three jetbikes are only good for objective grabbing. you have to hide them to make them useful, so spending the points toward a wave serpent instead is just better at the 1,500 point level

3) the less points you play, the more reason there is to bring a wraithknight because there's less points available for people to bring things that can hurt it since it generally can only be hurt by special/heavy weapons. I'm not saying you should take two, but at 1,500 points a wraithknight is more survivable, not less. I've had a lot of success playing my wraithknight competitively and imo, if you play eldar and don't have at least one, you're doing it wrong. and how is 36" range guns on a jump monstrous creature bad range? and 2 s10 shots at 36" is pretty good...

plus, the wraitknight fills a specific role in the list that not many other units in the elder dex can fill

4) wraithguard are better than fire dragons because 1) they're troops, 2) they're more survivable, and 3) s10 insta kills daemon princes and D weapons can insta kill other monstrous creatures like wraithknights, dreadknights, and tyranids. dragons have some advantages, but point for point wraithguard are better. not saying you should never take dragons, but I think you have to completely change the list to make them work

5) mantle farseer is completely pointless in 7th a huge waste of points
 

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Sorry to derail the thread guys. The following is said with much respect.

1. Sorry, was thinking of starcannons at s6, but my point is that +1 toughness makes a huge difference. Using them late game is a great idea, as nothing will be able to contest, (not many units left), unless you got tabled.

2. Not necessarily. 2 units, two places they can be. They are faster, more versatile, and durable. If there were 2 tanks, I'd completely agree, but the author has spent the points elsewhere, and I respect that. There are some really cool ideas and strategies going on, and I wan't to keep them, and try to stay away from the spam and cheese sandwich that is the serpent spam build. Keep the bikes in reserve, turbo boost them to objective late game and they have a nice save, which can be buffed, as well as being able to take 2 objectives. (2 squads = 2 objectives) The DA serpent unit is also quite a bit more expensive. (Vyper/war walker difference in points)

3. There are so many weapons and strategies that have been devised to counter Mr. Cuddles. Suicide drop melta (of all forms), grav spam, poison spam, sniper spam, lascannon spam, the list goes on. Being the biggest and nastiest thing on the board does not work any favours for it, especially with such a 3+ save. On the weapons issue, think about this: It will be removing a max of 2 models each turn, assuming it hits, rolls incredibly well on vehicle damage table, the target is less that T6, etc etc. The targets you are going for are going to have a longer range almost every time, which was the issue I was raising. Hammer heads, fire prisms, etc.

4. We are going to have to agree to disagree
4.a Only with a spiritseer, which is extra points again.
4.b Yes, but there are 1.4 fire dragons to guard. While more dragons go down, there are more surviving to hit back.
4.c More shots > better shots. Flood a riptide with ap 1 and it will go down. I wouldn't rely on a lucky roll to take down MCs. In addition, the ap1 really helps on the vehicle damage table.

5. Please elaborate. It is intended to be a distraction unit, not a heavy hitter.
 

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I don't think it's a derail, we're still talking about the list kinda.

I get what you're saying about the bikes and I take two three man units in my 1,850 army, but if I could drop them and some other things, without diminishing other parts of my list, for a unit in a wave serpent, I would do it. wave serpents are just that good and tanks got harder to kill in the new rules. also, if the wave serpent is upgraded to a troop unit, then the wave serpent itself counts as a troop and now that everything can score, that's pretty damn good. so, the guardians and wave serpent are actually two separate troops...

I also appreciate that you don't want to make a spam army, but wave serpents are more competitive and I'm assuming that the guy who started this thread wants a competitive army, so they won't mind the spam.

we'll just disagree about the wraithguard and fire dragon thing.
4 a. you have to take a HQ in your army anyway, so you're not really wasting points. and the spirit seer can spirit mark, which isn't a psychic power, so it's better now.
4 b. you get 7 fire dragon for 5 wraithguard. two more fire dragons aren't that much better and because the wraithguard are troops, their wave serpents are troops, so there's more scoring.
4 c. in this case, not really. the wraithguard are still ap 2, so they kill riptides too and you can insta kill it on a 6. you don't need to get that lucky to kill MCs with wraithguard, they insta kill daemon princes with the S10 and a 6 to wound against a tyranid... I agree the ap 1 is an advantage the dragons have, but the list doesn't need it

5. in the new rules, any psychic power can be denied, including blessings that target your own units, so spending 155 points on something that's gonna struggle to get powers off and gets no benefit against other eldar or tau just doesn't make sense. daemons and tyranids got a lot better in the new rules, you'll be seeing a lot of them on the competitive scene, and those armies get a lot of dice to deny the witch because they have a ton of psychers (I only count on getting one power off with two farseers). so the mantle farseer really sucks and will struggle to do anything at all against the four most popular armies...

also because daemons and tyranids will be so prevalent now, the wraithknight is kinda necessary because nids cant stop it and it can shut down a screamer star, which will table you if you don't have a wraithknight.
 

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:)

1. That may be the case, however that set up is an extra warwalker in points.

2. I get the feeling that the author is trying to win games at a local level. He/she didn't post "super-comp army serpent spam" or "competitive tournament mobile help needed" so I am assuming this. I may be wrong, but that is the basis of my advisements. :) I like to think of spam in these kind of lists like a fatty cheese: delicious, but best in moderation so you don't get picked on :)

4. Agreed :) (or disagreed? Ughhh! :p )
4.a Spirit mark is ok. Can be good, but a little situational. The seer also doesn't have the ghost helm, which is a downside.
4.b True, true, but all units can score. Troops can deny non-troops, but 7 fusion guns can usually do a similar job.
4.c I face wayyyy too much rhino/pod/general mech spam in my area, and have grown accustomed to having to deal with them. I think this list does need it, as nothing apart from the prisms are ap1/have any advantage against av12+ The melta giving an extra d6 is fantastic, especially for land raiders and quantum shielded crons.

5. The idea of that build is a maximum distraction unit. 2 free victory points (first blood, STW) flying around in your opponent's face is really tempting to pour gallons of fire into, for him/her, away from your other units, leaving them free to advance. In addition, your warlord is super survivable, and can throw his spear for extra pain. The DtW is still a 6+, and if you have multiple psykers, you can have "decoy" spell, which are cast first and seem really bad. That gets dispelled, then your main blessings then get cast.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Mostly I do just play at local level. At the moment the list I have posted is one I have been thinking of and am slowly modifying per suggestions (thanks guys :D). What I currently field is something like this. (I do love spam lol :/)

Farseer 100

x10 dire avengers 130
x10 guardians (varying weapons platforms) 105-120
x5 Wraith guard 160
x5 Fire dragons -Exarch, fire pike, fast shot 145

Wave serpent -Scatter laser or bright lance, shuriken cannon 130
wave serpent -Scatter laser or bright lance, shuriken cannon 130
wave serpent -Scatter laser or bright lance, shuriken cannon 130

Falcon -Scatter laser, holofields 150
Fire prism -holofields 140
x2 war walkers scatter laser bright lance each 140

Sometimes I will substitute the fire dragons or a wave serpent for a squad of striking scorpions or a crimson hunter if my opponent is fielding a flyer. The holofields on the Falcon and fire prism are supposed to give them a little bit more survivability from cover because they dont have the haha! you cant kill me shields of the wave serpents Personally I like the jet bike idea as I can use the wraith guard as a front line of sorts. If rolls for powers and such goes well I would be trying to cast protect to get 2+ saves on wraithguard and invisibility on wraithkknight (which is much much better imo in 7th than it was in 6th)bikes can sit at the back shooting or running to capture objectives on the side. Also in regard to DtW most of the people I vs dont have any psykers or if they do, I have more so I'm not tooooo worried about DtW. (As always thanks for the suggestions :D)
 

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Not to be nit-picky, but how is the farseer going to cast powers? He can't from inside a tank, and on foot he isn't very fast.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Its fine. Be as nitpicky as you want :D Mostly, I wont have the farseer in a tank he'll be hiding behind a building. When I deploy my army everything is reasonably close together in a clump so there isnt really a need to be sprinting everywhere. Most powers i need to cast are 18" or more (as I plan to use powers from only the Telepathy discipline). Eventually I was planning on fielding the farseer on a jetbike with either MotLG or in a squad which would give him mobility and a bit more survivability. Then I could happily run him around throwing psychic shriek at people all day and still buffing my units while hiding :)
 

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Its fine. Be as nitpicky as you want :D Mostly, I wont have the farseer in a tank he'll be hiding behind a building. When I deploy my army everything is reasonably close together in a clump so there isnt really a need to be sprinting everywhere. Most powers i need to cast are 18" or more (as I plan to use powers from only the Telepathy discipline). Eventually I was planning on fielding the farseer on a jetbike with either MotLG or in a squad which would give him mobility and a bit more survivability. Then I could happily run him around throwing psychic shriek at people all day and still buffing my units while hiding :)
The jetbike is very good. Considering your army is highly mobile, the farseer needs to be able to keep up :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Unfortunately it isnt there yet :/ I do love the new invisibility for telepathy (shot at with snap shots meleed with WS 1) though as it will make what ever I cast it on VERY hard to kill. (I just love all the new telepathy powers) Since I dont have a jet bike for the farseer I just run him with a bodyguard of 5 Dire avengers.
 

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The base parts of the guardian weapons platforms make a nice skyboard for a farseer just use one of them and you can get really good effects. It is a lot easier than trying to build the model onto a jetbike
 
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