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Forward Kommander
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1,005 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just decided to put my thoughts down...

098th Grand Company
1501 Points (I hope nobody cares)


HQ
  • Grand Master Weiss [205]
    -Master Crafted Nemisis Force Weapon
    -Sacred Incense
    -Icon of the Just
    -Hammerhand

Elites
  • 6 Grey Knight Terminators [301]
    -Psycannon

Troops
  • 6 Grey Knights [225]
    -2 Psycannons

  • 6 Grey Knights [225]
    -2 Psycannons

Fast Attack
  • 10 Grey Knights [295]
    -2 Incinerators

Heavy Support
  • Land Raider [250]

Not much, but they are the Grey Knights!
 

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I am a free man!
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4,941 Posts
Since you're paying points for the terminators as if they were the retinue of the GM -- and it's pretty obvious that's what you mean to be doing -- they don't take up one of your Elite choices; they're part of the same HQ choice as your GM.

Speaking of which, I don't see what Hammerhand gets you. He's already got a STR 6 Force weapon! Ain't nobody gettin' no armor saves, and you should have no problem instant killing anybody. A straight-up STR 8 CC attack doesn't seem to be as worthwhile. I'd use the Hammerhand points on something more useful. Also, master-crafting probably won't get you much for the points your spending on it. Hey, that's another GK (or something else useful)!

I'm one of those who feels that psycannons on footslogging models is a waste of points. (Unless the footslogger is a terminator or an inquisitor dedicated to being a firebase/firesupport unit.) You're spending as many points on each psycannon as you would on another GK model, and what you give up on the GK models to have a psycannon to begin with -- STR 6 NFW, True Grit, the stormbolter -- is not worth the trade off. As you march, your psycannon has less range, and you could instead have a second GK -- complete with STR 6 NFW, etc. Meaning that for the cost of 1 psycannon -- 3 admittedly potent shots at short range -- you could have two GKs, 4 stormbolter shots (at longer range), AND more than 4x the CC punch that the single psycannon-weilding GK has.

Although I don't feel as strongly about incinerators -- especially on FAGKs -- I still tend to believe that spending points to give up the NFW/True Grit/stormbolter combo is not usually worth it. That said, I have seen incinerators put to very effective use ... YMMV. But I think to myself: "Would I rather have two incinerators or another GK?" and I always go for the GK.

For Daemonhunters, I think there's little point to the Land Raider. Using the Land Raider Crusader, however, that's a different story. But the only real point to a normal LR is anti-armor, and two dreadnoughts with TLLCs and ML will be much more effective at the task at not much more cost. (Say, the cost of two psycannons. ;) ) If you intend to transport GKs in a LR, the LRC is better suited to the task, with much better troop-killing weaponry and free frag grenades. Plus, the LRC can be a nasty tank-killer on it's own in a pinch -- though admittedly at a somewhat limited range -- thanks to the multi-melta and assault cannon. In sum: if you want pure anti-armor, take dreadnoughts. But if you want transport AND anti-armor, take a LRC.

That said, you should be aware that, with only one vehicle -- even one as awesome as the LRC -- it is very likely to be blasted apart relatively early in the game. It would help to have at least another vehicle for your enemy to worry about.

Although your terminator squad is awesome, you can easily afford to drop 2 or even 3 of them for points that can be usefully employed elsewhere. The HQ squad won't be terribly hurt by the loss of those models. Were I you, I'd convert all your GK psycannons into GKs, change the LR for an LRC, and drop 2-3 terminators (2 if you're wiling to drop some gear off the GM, like Hammerhand and master-crafting, and/or the incinerators on the FAGKs) for a dreadnought equipped any old way you like.
 

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Forward Kommander
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1,005 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
number6 said:
Since you're paying points for the terminators as if they were the retinue of the GM -- and it's pretty obvious that's what you mean to be doing -- they don't take up one of your Elite choices; they're part of the same HQ choice as your GM.
The only difference is that I get a Brother Captain in the Eletes Squad, and by not using it as a Bodyguard, my GM keeps his IC status.

number6 said:
Speaking of which, I don't see what Hammerhand gets you. He's already got a STR 6 Force weapon! Ain't nobody gettin' no armor saves, and you should have no problem instant killing anybody. A straight-up STR 8 CC attack doesn't seem to be as worthwhile. I'd use the Hammerhand points on something more useful. Also, master-crafting probably won't get you much for the points your spending on it. Hey, that's another GK (or something else useful)!
Now the hammerhand has been a long looked at option, I beleave it is worth every point, but not for combat with troops (although, models with no armour save could feel the wrath of the hammerhand!), hammerhand is used as an anti-armour weapon. "Wait" I hear sombody yell, "you can get Thunderhammers on your Termies for free, why pay for hammerhand when you get the awsome power of a power fist and be able to stun your opponent with each hit?" The simple answer is Time. If, by any chane your Termies get assaulted by a Dreadnought (of anny kind) you get a very slim chance to save the Emperors finest befor they get crushed! I then, flip out my seacret 'hand' which gives me effectively 5 missile shots at it's front armour, before it can land a single hit!

Master-Crafting the NFW is a simple matter of what it's worth. If by a bad stroke of luck (and I've been known to have these) I get the re-roll to get another chance at landing a Str 6 Force Weapon hit! Although I may drop it if I need the points for something else...

number6 said:
I'm one of those who feels that psycannons on footslogging models is a waste of points. (Unless the footslogger is a terminator or an inquisitor dedicated to being a firebase/firesupport unit.) You're spending as many points on each psycannon as you would on another GK model, and what you give up on the GK models to have a psycannon to begin with -- STR 6 NFW, True Grit, the stormbolter -- is not worth the trade off. As you march, your psycannon has less range, and you could instead have a second GK -- complete with STR 6 NFW, etc. Meaning that for the cost of 1 psycannon -- 3 admittedly potent shots at short range -- you could have two GKs, 4 stormbolter shots (at longer range), AND more than 4x the CC punch that the single psycannon-weilding GK has.
I agree completly. On marching GK Psycannons are completly useless as Storm Bolters Out-Range them. BUT my PA GK are going to be standing still (hopefully in cover) and unloading 36" Str 6, shots of at any target that appears worthy of the Emperors retribution!

number6 said:
For Daemonhunters, I think there's little point to the Land Raider. Using the Land Raider Crusader, however, that's a different story. But the only real point to a normal LR is anti-armor, and two dreadnoughts with TLLCs and ML will be much more effective at the task at not much more cost. (Say, the cost of two psycannons. ) If you intend to transport GKs in a LR, the LRC is better suited to the task, with much better troop-killing weaponry and free frag grenades. Plus, the LRC can be a nasty tank-killer on it's own in a pinch -- though admittedly at a somewhat limited range -- thanks to the multi-melta and assault cannon. In sum: if you want pure anti-armor, take dreadnoughts. But if you want transport AND anti-armor, take a LRC
With Power Of The Machine Spirit the Land Raider is almost as accurate as 2 TL LC Dreads and still has the HB to fire. It also has better armour than them, so it is much more survivable. Most of all, however, I own a Land Raider, not 2 Dreadnoughts, not a Land Raider Crusaider, I own a regular, run-of-the-mill Land Raider and it kicks a$$ :w00t:

Thanks for the Response!
 

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durus
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2,578 Posts
I am a fan of Hammerhand as well, that way you also don't lose a Stormbolter.

I agree with number6 on the Landraider, but you gotta play with what you have.

For your HQ, I would drop Sacred Incence and Icon on the GM. I prefer to have a bodyguard for my Grandmaster, so he isn't an IC. It comes in handy when playing against other IC with better Initiative. With the point savings you could give the GM a BS5 Psycannon.

My preference is to have one PAGK squad with two Psycannons (and an Inquisitor with one) for one squad, and then a full squad of 10 for the other with no options.

I also prefer no options like Incinerators for my GKs, but I Love Storm Bolters! Many times I don't DS my FAGK squad, I just place them last. If you have Incinerators in your FAGK squad, you are essentially wasting them for this tactic.
 

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LO Oldie
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1,248 Posts
i agree to drop the LR for TLLC/ML dreadnoughts.

Another thing is buy the grand master a power weapon. losing the storm bolter shots is worth getting another attack in cc because, lets face it, a grand master wont do jack shooting
 

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I am a free man!
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4,941 Posts
gen.nehring said:
Another thing is buy the grand master a power weapon. losing the storm bolter shots is worth getting another attack in cc because, lets face it, a grand master wont do jack shooting
Oh, I disagree! He does lots of jack shooting. ;) The GM has a BS of 5! I always give mine a psycannon, and it's worth the points every time.

However, if you are willing to give up shooting, there's no point to getting the GM a power weapon. His NFW already counts as a power weapon (better even: a force weapon!), and that's what he'll be striking with. Just spend a point for a generic close combat weapon if you want that additional attack in CC. (At least, I think that's legal. A model in terminator armour can get an additional CC attack for being armed with two weapons, same as anyone else, right?)
 

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Simple Green.
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969 Posts
You can't number6....since the GM is in termie armor he can only choose items with the "*". The cheapest regular ccw he can get is a power weapon. That's why. Plus for the price of the psycannon, he can get 1 extra cc attack and get a MCNFW (re-roll one missed hit). I personally give one termie a psycannon and give the GM a power wep (plus I converted him with a mace in the left hand so he looks sweet with twin ccw's.
 

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I am a free man!
Joined
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4,941 Posts
Emp. said:
You can't number6....since the GM is in termie armor he can only choose items with the "*". The cheapest regular ccw he can get is a power weapon.
Well, that's stinky.
 
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