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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Okay. I've posted this list at a few sites looking for advice with very limited response or just - that does not work. I've playing DH with stormtroopers for awhile so I know its possible to be somewhat competitive with a similar list ( although this list loses the dreads ). I want to play the list because every IG model was part of a trade for my fantasy nurgle and I want to try IG with GK rather than the other way around. I have six models I'm not using but would like to add ... four guardsmen with flamers and two snipers - I have already decided not to use a tech priest and regular priest that came in the trade ( beautiful paint jobs, btw ) as I don't want to waste doctrines on them.

Drop Troops
Sanctioned Psykers
Grenadiers
Iron Discipline
Special Weapons Squads

HQ1:
- Heroic Senior Officer - Power Weapon&Plasma Pistol Pistol, Carapace Armour, Refractor Field, Trademark Item and Iron Discipline
- Commissar - Poewer Fist&Plasnma Pistol, Carapace Armour and Refractor Field
- Psyker - Force Weapon&LasPistol, Honorifaca Imperialis
- Vet Medic - CC Weapon&Plasma Pistol, Med Pack
- Vet - CC Weapon&Plasma Pistol
- 2x Guardsman - meltaguns
ALL MOUNTED IN VALKYRIE

Special Weapon Troops - 3 Flamers
Special Weapon Troops - 2 Snipers

HQ2:
- Grand Master - holocuast and master-crafted weapon
w/ retinue of 5 terminators and one incinerator

TROOPS:
3 x identical squads
- Sgt - CC&Hellpistol
- Com Officer -
- 2 Meltagunners -
- 7 Troopers w/ Hellguns

FAST ATTACK:
FAGK -
7 x GK w/ one incinerator and justicar w/melta bombs

2x Sentinels w/ autocannons

I could add another incinerator to the FAGK or a Psycannon on either GK squad. I have four heavy flamers and two snipers beautifully converted sop I had to use them for style. I'm hoping the mass amounts of plasma and melta will take down a lot of troops and the GK can mop up whatever is left as troopers ( other than the HQ ) do not fare to well in H2H.
I'm not sure what to start on the table and what to DS - other than the GK which will DS for sure. I'm thinking to start with one or two squads on table ans the special squads? Of course this leaves them open to all the firepower so they would need to stay in cover. I'm hoping that turn two I can really start effecti8vely deploying and begin harrassing my opponent.
 

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An interesting list, however a couple of problems arise and are potential reasons for the lack of response.

1. HQ squad in Valkyrie: I understand what you are trying to do here, but this seems to be a massive investment in points that you probably wont recoup. You should probably cut down on the 'tooling up' and rely on your grey knight allies to handle the close combat. You dont even have any 'wounds' in your hq squad (ie, plain guardsman) so even one casualty is going to hurt, and you can guarantee that you will lose a lot more than one in CC. If you want to just have fun, sure this HQ will probably do that for you.. if you want to get real competitive, I'd spend less on tooling up this unit and get more bodies on the board.

2. Valkyrie: Being an average joe, I have no idea what these things do stats wise or what they cost. I know they are flyers but there my knowledge ends.. Makes it hard to comment on its inclusion and this may be the case why others dont repond. (Im sure it looks cool wither way though, like all forge world goodness)

3. Grenadier troop choices: These guys cant actually use the drop troop doctrine, so will have to start on the board in every game. While melta guns are fantastic weapons if used correctly, a squad that has to walk across the table to within 12" of a tank to kill it is probably not a squad that will live for very long. I'd probably go for 2 squads with double plasma, and one squad with meltas. Grenadier squads that have to walk in can often be better served by the humble grenade launcher I find so a better lay out might be 2 plasma teams and a grenade team. While this cuts out on anti tank, walking troops were not probably going to kill a tank anyway.

4. Special weapon teams: Yes they do drop, but Im not a fan of these guys at all.. A hardened vet squad can also take 3 specials and drop.. 3 meltas in a team like this and at least ONE tank is gonna go boom.

5. Sentinals: Might be better serverd by lascannons as armour 13-14 will pretty much be immune to whatever you can throw at it.

Anyway lots of changes suggested.. lack of anti armour is what will hurt you, but a few changes here and there and that problem should be fixed. I like the true mixed list approach, would be great to see on the board.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
This takes some time explaining...

You can combine Drop Troops with Grenadiers.

The Grenadiers doctrine states that -"The regiment may include 0-3 stormtroopers as Troops. These Stormtroopers may not Deep Strike or Infiltrate"
This ONLY refers to the special rule in the Stormtroopers entry where they can purchase this ability. With the Drop Troops doctrine this ability is to come naturaly to them as the normal infantry (Guardsmen) have been trained in the ways of Stormtroopers)

The Drop Troops doctrine states that "Any Guard Infantry Unit" (I checked with GW and this includes those Stormtroopers) may Deep Strike if the mission permits.

The army list was created by an Employee of Games-Workshop and when he made it he we checked with GW qand were assured it was legal, I have used grenadier/stormtrooper several times at tournaments! They didn't complain about the army.

Now this seems a bone of contention. The rules are not very clearly written. I will continue to use them this way until I get a faq from GW stating otherwise.
 

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GW employees are far from infallible. Its no point checking with 'GW' as you said, why dont you just read the codex or get them to? While the Grenadier Doctrine allows you to take stormtroopers as a 0-3 TROOPS choice as the codex states, the Drop troops doctrine clearly refers to GUARD INFANTRY unit.
I now point you to page 55 of the Guard codex that defines, quite clearly, what units are included under the category GUARD INFANTRY (Left column, just above the restricted troops heading). Nowhere in that paragraph does it say stormtroopers, and nowhere does it use the term 'troops'.
The end result:
1. Are stromtroopers taken under the grenadier doctrine troops choices? Quite clearly yes.
2. Do said 'troops' fall under the category 'guard infantry'? Quite clearly no.
3. Seeing as the drop troop doctrine ONLY refers to GUARD INFANTRY units, can stormtroopers taken as troops choices under the grenadier doctrine deepstrike? No.

There is no contention and the wording is quite clear, again, I stress pg 55.
 

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durus
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MTG Guru has it exactly right, you may not DS Grenadiers in any way as they are not Guard Infantry, and may not Deepstrike as it says under Grenadiers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
this was my first stab at playing the GKs as allies rather than the other way around. Guess I'll get Chimeras for those stromies. Thanks for thwe clarification - and yes, GW guys are wrong often.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well I'm being offered the following in trade for my 1K Sons.

1 standard bearer (conversion). base colors
4 lt models, 3 fully painted, 1 base colors
6 sgt models, 3 fully painted, 3 base colors
6 special weapons models, 4 fully painted, 2 base colors
~60 lasgun infantry, ~1/2 fully painted, rest with base colors
5 ogryns (based white)
6 ratlings, all painted
9 mortar teams (conversions- used the metal mortar from other IG kits with a steel legion HW crew)
12 lascannon teams (3 fully painted, 3 base colors)
~12 missile launcher teams (3 fully painted, 3 base colors)
6 heavy bolter teams (3 fully painted)
1 autocannon team
2 leman russes (1 fully painted, 1 base colors)
1 basilisk
1 chimera (fully painted)
3 sentinels (base colors)
1 griffon mortar tank (fully painted, not the forgeworld model)

I also have my own chimeras ( two)

So for a drop troop force how would do this at 1500 - 1750 points? Added to my original list of course.
 

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The Fallen
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OK I am going to do 2 posts, first this one on your list, second one on the bits you are offered
bebe said:
HQ1:
- Heroic Senior Officer - Power Weapon&Plasma Pistol Pistol, Carapace Armour, Refractor Field, Trademark Item and Iron Discipline
Classic non guard mistake, IG officers can not hold their own with other HQs so dont burn wargear, ditch the plasma pistol - replace with botl pistol, ditch the carapace armour, his refractor field will give him 4+ anyway
- Commissar - Poewer Fist&Plasnma Pistol, Carapace Armour and Refractor Field
Refractor fields are, I believe, 1 per army, switch the plasma pistol with a bolt pistol and ditch the carapace armour
- Psyker - Force Weapon&LasPistol, Honorifaca Imperialis
What a bizare thing to do to a psycher, it may work but personnaly I dont like
- Vet Medic - CC Weapon&Plasma Pistol, Med Pack
- Vet - CC Weapon&Plasma Pistol
- 2x Guardsman - meltaguns
ditch plasma pistols, take plasma guns on the guard save yourself some points
ALL MOUNTED IN VALKYRIE
Valks are naff, trust me, I got elysians, problem is that you have to engage VTOL mode to drop people off, at that point the thing is a sitting duck, it looses all its flier rules and will be an easey 200 points for your opponent, if you must use one, at least arm its hard points
Special Weapon Troops - 3 Flamers
Special Weapon Troops - 2 Snipers
Use the points from above to make the sniper unit 2 snipers, I assume the flamers are gona drop?)

HQ2:
- Grand Master - holocuast and master-crafted weapon
w/ retinue of 5 terminators and one incinerator
not keen but up to you
TROOPS:
3 x identical squads
- Sgt - CC&Hellpistol
- Com Officer -
- 2 Meltagunners -
- 7 Troopers w/ Hellguns
gah, because the squads cant deep strike, you wont get to use the meltas much, I would go for plasma

FAST ATTACK:
FAGK -
7 x GK w/ one incinerator and justicar w/melta bombs
as above, I dont like GK in drop troop lists, but your call
2x Sentinels w/ autocannons
would prefer las cannon and HK missiles on these, makes them lethal tank hunters
 

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The Fallen
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bebe said:
Well I'm being offered the following in trade for my 1K Sons.

1 standard bearer (conversion). base colors
personnaly I dont use them, but that is about how you use moral and HQ squads in your army, usable if you use the right way
4 lt models, 3 fully painted, 1 base colors
could just about use all of them
6 sgt models, 3 fully painted, 3 base colors
fine
6 special weapons models, 4 fully painted, 2 base colors
depends on weaponry
~60 lasgun infantry, ~1/2 fully painted, rest with base colors
fine
5 ogryns (based white)
actually can be very usefull
6 ratlings, all painted
personnaly I dont like but snipers can be useful
9 mortar teams (conversions- used the metal mortar from other IG kits with a steel legion HW crew)
gah mortars are about the naffest heavy weapon available to IG, they have some use for a command squad keyed to master vox moral but otherwise pretty naff
12 lascannon teams (3 fully painted, 3 base colors)
I make that 6 not 12, always usefull
~12 missile launcher teams (3 fully painted, 3 base colors)
as per las cannon teams on both counts
6 heavy bolter teams (3 fully painted)
less usefull
1 autocannon team
I like these but arguably fall into the same class as heavy bolters
2 leman russes (1 fully painted, 1 base colors)
1 basilisk
1 chimera (fully painted)
3 sentinels (base colors)
1 griffon mortar tank (fully painted, not the forgeworld model)

I also have my own chimeras ( two)
You need those extra chimera, but fine
 
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