[mellvins059]

As grey knights with their force weapons everywhere have somewhat made mass monstrous creatures unviable this is my best attempt at keeping nids competitive in the current meta. What do you guys think? List is off the top of my head so i think its 1750 possibly give or take a few hormagaunts.
HQ
Prime- dual boneswords
Elites
x2 venomthropes
x3 hive guard
x3 hive guard
Troops
tervigon- catalyst
x22 hormagaunts- toxin sacs
x22 hormagaunts- toxin sacs
x10 termagaunts
x8 genestealers- toxin sacs
x8 genestealers- toxin sacs
Fast Attack
x4 shrikes- dual boneswords, scything talons, adrenal glands
x4 shrikes- dual boneswords, scything talons, adrenal glands

 

[Heirodule]

If you trim the fat down a bit you could have a good list going here, but Ill just adress your original point about GK's making MC's not vaiable anymore. Ive played a lot against the GK recently, and theres a good few BatReps from the likes of Jy2 around aswell. In all honestly MC's are still very effective. They just need to be synaptic MC's. Things like fex's and possibly regular trygons are pretty dead but Trygon Primes, Tyrants and tervigons still have a damn good chance to stand up to the Knights. I would recogmend trying a list that only has synaptic beastys or a lot of shadows before you discount them alltogether.

Anyway the list.

Your prime usually wants adrenal glands and rending claws. This is mostly so you have something capable of killing walkers, instant deathing T3 characters and generally being a bit faster than usual. However since your particularly worried about GK, I recogmend going with toxin sacs (re-rolls to wound mostly, plus theyre good for dreadnight killing) and the lash whip and bonesword.

Im not sure venomthropes are the best idea here. Its very easy to get cover anyway these days and they usually require a shooty build. Id have to say these should be switched for thropes, considering youve got a real lack of MC's here.

The tervigon will need toxin sacs, adrenal glands and catalyst. Youll also need more than 1, on his own he's going to take every anti tank weapon going.

Im pretty sure those hormaguants will need to go. Minimal MC's basically means tervigon spam if you want to be competitive and you need tervigons and guants.

1 brood of genestealers will be fine too.

The shrikes arent competative at all. Theyre paper thin and if an opponent gets a round of shooting, even with something like bolters, theyre dead. Theyre also queit small so you stand to lose the entire unit to a S8 large blast which is problematic. These will need to go.

Because there are so many changes that would have to be made, Im just gonna type a list out if thats okay.


Tyranid Prime - Lash whip and bonesword, rending claws, toxin sacs

Tyranid Prime - Lash whip and bonesword, rending claws, toxin sacs

3 Hive guard

3 Hive guard

3 zoanthropes in a spore

Tervigon, Catalyst, Toxin sacs, Adrenal glands

29 termaguants

Tervigon, Catalyst, Toxin sacs, Adrenal glands

29 termagaunts

9 Genestealers - toxin sacs, broodlord

3 Biovores



Primes go in the Termaguant broods, and everything moves on up. Just try to keep the tervigons safe or you might have problems. And do try a list with SoTW on your big beastys. It really hits GK's hard.

 

[mellvins059]

Sorry forgot I posted on librarium, due to critique I have been forced to change the list to the following.
I have removed toxin sacs from genestealers, sized the hormagaunts down from 22 to 18 in each squad, gave toxin sacs to the tervigons, and replaced the shrikes with the trygon primes.
HQ
Prime- dual boneswords
Elites
x2 venomthropes
x3 hive guard
x3 hive guard
Troops
tervigon- catalyst, toxin sacs
x18 hormagaunts- toxin sacs
x18 hormagaunts- toxin sacs
x10 termagaunts
x8 genestealers
x8 genestealers
Heavy Support
Trygon Prime- Adrenal glands
Trygon Prime- Adrenal glands

 

[Heirodule]

2 problems here. Firstly you dont need two stealer broods. Its a bit of a waste. Your also much better off giving the one brood toxin sacs. Secondly what do you expect 10 termaguants to do against anybody? If your going to run termaguants you have to run them big. Also running a mix of termaguants and hormaguants is rarely a good idea. You should focus on one or the other. Either ditch the hormaguants to grab more termaguants and a tervigon, or ditch the tervigon and guants in favour of some other stuff. A medium brood of warriors could bring a lot to the list, as could a properley upgraded Tyranid Prime.

 

[mellvins059]

I'm going to have to completely disagree with you. I find that two genestealer units are very necessary, not only in making sure i get one where it is needed but to dictate my opponents deployment. Also while I would like to put adrenal glands on the Tyranid Prime I can't scrounge up the points for it and I feel with dual boneswords and lash whips from the attached venomthropes its a combat menace. Lastly I think its absurd to say that hormagaunts and termagaunts dont belong together in a list. They fill entirely different roles, with the hormagaunts moving swiftly towards the enemy to get in combat while receiving the venomthrope cover and the 10 termagaunts plus the ones spawned from the troop tervigon along with the tervigon itself claiming the objectives. Now the 10 man termgaunt unit is simply to make the tervigon troop, and why can't it suffice. All the termagaunt units coming out of the tervigon will be near that size. And you say it can't do anything. Its role is to claim an objective. No one is going to shoot long range anti infantry fire at the 10 man termagaunt unit, I don't see any worth in increasing its size.

 

[Heirodule]

I'm going to have to completely disagree with you. I find that two genestealer units are very necessary, not only in making sure i get one where it is needed but to dictate my opponents deployment.

The odds of getting a unit on the side you want are 66%. As for dictating your opponents deployment, why do you need two for that? If they want to protect from outflankers they'll do it, taking 2 wont force them to the middle more than anything else. You should be tactically capable enough to make use of a stealer squad even if they do come in from the "wrong" side. For example, putting objectives towards the edge, if they come on the wrong side away from any decent targets, just put them onto an objective. If you know what your doing, you only need one brood.

Also while I would like to put adrenal glands on the Tyranid Prime I can't scrounge up the points for it and I feel with dual boneswords and lash whips from the attached venomthropes its a combat menace.

Not really. Sure it'll do okay against something like a tactical squad, but its nothing special as an assault unit. Venomthropes shouldnt really get into combat, they should be used in shooty lists to provide cover and a way to thin out assaulting units with the dangerous terrain tests. Any decent combat unit will anhilate them very quickly, doubly so if they have an invulnerable save. Your relying on the prime to get enough kills to avoid the slaughter of the very fragile venomthropes.

Now the 10 man termgaunt unit is simply to make the tervigon troop, and why can't it suffice. All the termagaunt units coming out of the tervigon will be near that size. And you say it can't do anything. Its role is to claim an objective. No one is going to shoot long range anti infantry fire at the 10 man termagaunt unit, I don't see any worth in increasing its size.

No theyre not. What they will shoot at them is troop units that go to claim the objective, anhilating them in the process. Tactical squads, eldar warriors, ork mobs that sort of thing. So those 10 man termaguant units are only useful if the opponent doesnt make an effort to removing them. And to be honest if theyre claiming an important objective, I would do anything to clear them off so if an opponent wants them gone, they'll die very easily. And what exactly do you intend to do in anhilation? You then have a free kill point lying around which is a liability, and an essentially useless tervigon that might just kill something should it survive to get into CC.

The reason to make the guant brood bigger is to actually make it useful. For an extra 110 points (for AG on the tervigon too) you gain a massive advantage in terms of your list. You have a VASTLY better place to put the prime, combined with 30 guants that makes a monstrosity on the charge and actually quiet potent even when charged thanks to counter attack. They function as a tarpit, can still claim objectives and if your opponent doesnt deal with them soon enough they soon find a seriously dangerous and hard to shift unit in their lines. All your offensive units are really queit fragile Thats basically the cost of that un-needed secondary genestealer unit. Scrap that and an extra guant per brood and you have a useful unit whilst still retaining the spawning ability to hold objectives.

Lastly I think its absurd to say that hormagaunts and termagaunts dont belong together in a list.

If you actually read what I wrote, I said its rarely a good idea. Not never, rarely. In this instance seeing as your going for a swarm list, its okay. However if you specialised it, you can build much better lists, such as the one I posted previously.

 

[mellvins059]

I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree