[tiny_the_tokin_bear]

So I haven't played in a few years and tossed this together to play with some friends. I have some spare points left and am considering possibly cutting out the WWP option all together. In this list the only units on the table are the 2 troop raiders:

HQ1 = 459

Archon
Punisher
Tormentor Helm
Combat Drugs
Shadow Field
Animus Vitae
Drazhar, Master of Blades
5 Incubi
2 Warriors
Splinter Cannons
Raider
Disintegrator
Plasma Grenades for squad

HQ2 = 349

Dracon
Punisher
Tormentor Helm
Combat Drugs
6 Incubi
2 Warriors
Splinter Cannons
Raider
Disintegrator
Plasma Grenades for Squad

Elite 1 = 238

Wych Succubus
Agoniser
9 Wyches
Wych Weapons for Squad
Plasma Grenades for Squad
Raider
Disintegrator

Elite 2 = 238

Wych Succubus
Agoniser
9 Wyches
Wych Weapons for Squad
Plasma Grenades for Squad
Raider
Disintegrator

Troop 1 = 211
1 Sybarite
Webway Portal
Splinter Rifle
9 warriors
7 Splinter Rifles
1 Dark Lance
1 Blaster
Raider
Disintegrator

Troop 2 = 211
1 Sybarite
Webway Portal
Splinter Rifle
9 warriors
7 Splinter Rifles
1 Dark Lance
1 Blaster
Raider
Disintegrator



Total = 1706

Thoughts? I'm thinking of trying to jam in some ravagers in place of the second squad of incubi and wpps...

 

[Toloran]

For the record, you aren't supposed to list the wargear points costs, just the total costs of the unit. This is so GW doesn't breath down our necks =p In any case:

So I haven't played in a few years and tossed this together to play with some friends. I have some spare points left and am considering possibly cutting out the WWP option all together. In this list the only units on the table are the 2 troop raiders:

Although don't let me stop you, since you haven't played for a few years you should be aware that the new edition (5th) has changed a few things. The most relevant ones to this list are the fact that WWP lists have kinda fallen out of style, that most randomly played missions now are Objective based rather then kill points based, and you can keep any unit in reserve on any mission. That last one is why WWP lists have fallen out of style because for 50+pts and a potential liability, you gain a a little more distance towards the enemy in safety. Since your list is primarily raider rush anyway, you can probably dispense with the WWPs entirely if you want. Again though, don't let this stop you. WWP is still viable. It just isn't as mandatory as it was in 4th edition.

Mostly the units look fine but I do have some overall issues with the army list as a whole:

First of all, your list is highly melee centric. This is fine, in theory, because CC is our shtick. However, the current metagame leans HEAVILY towards mechanized lists (and anti-mechanized lists) so you need something to get to the chewy center of those transports. Your entire list only has two dark lances and two blasters. That is not going to be nearly enough. I'd suggest dropping the disintegrators from the raiders. Yes they're good but you need more DLs. If you want some dissys you can take a Ravager instead.

Secondly, your HQ slot seems a little... bloated? Points wise I mean. Almost half of your army's points total is in those two units. Granted, they are SUPER powerful units but when combined with the other (potential) issues, that can be a liability. Incubi are really tough but they are only basic marines when it comes to being shot at. I'd go with your comment and drop the dracon unit for something else.

Thirdly, you only have two troop choices. As I mentioned before, fully 2/3rds of games are objective based. Although any unit can contest an objective (ie. keep the enemy from capturing it), only troops choices can capture the objective (ie, win). As such, armies tend to send out more troop choices. The "standard" at 1750pts is four troops choices. You can work with less and then just table the opponent but it is something to keep in mind. Alternately, you can take a pair of warrior squads armed with 2x DLs to fill out your DL quota and leave a few of the dissys on the raiders.

Lastly, your warrior squads seem a little.... Confused. They have a raider (favors mobility), a Dark Lance (Favors being immobile), A blaster (favors mobility), and a WWP (favors being immobile). So in any given turn, you can only use half the units capabilities depending on whether you move or not. I'd suggest either A.) Remove the WWP and swap the DL for a Splinter Cannon (and then put the WWP in a different unit); or B.) Remove the raider and take two DLs instead.

 

[tiny_the_tokin_bear]

I should probably look into a newer edition rule book as well...I remember even attempting to go without a WWP would lead to squads of dead wyches.

Thanks for the comments,

I agree completely that the HQs are entirely bloated and I don't think the Dracon is necessary. I'm basically using them to cut through large 30 man squads. I'm going to go ahead and cut him from the list in place of three ravagers with dissys and night shields. I'll dump the dissys off the Raiders and run some lances on them for general vehicle utility.

Also with respect to the Raider squads being ambiguous in their purpose they're there simply to shuttle the WWPs, and provided 2 high power shots before the wyches and incubi assault. The blasters don't really make sense on them I will grant, once they've been dumped off the raider they're largely immobile squads. I'm thinking maybe I can somehow cut the WWP altogether but I expect ork kommandos with rocket launchers...

So my revised list, removing the WWP mechanic alltogether:


Archon
Punisher
Tormentor Helm
Combat Drugs
Shadow Field
Animus Vitae
Drazhar, Master of Blades
6 Incubi
2 Warriors
Splinter Cannons
Raider
Plasma Grenades for squad




Wych Succubus
Agoniser
9 Wyches
Wych Weapons for Squad
Plasma Grenades for Squad
Raider




Wych Succubus
Agoniser
9 Wyches
Wych Weapons for Squad
Plasma Grenades for Squad
Raider



10 warriors 80
8 Splinter Rifles
2 Dark Lance


10 warriors 80
8 Splinter Rifles
2 Dark Lance





Ravager 105
3 Disintegrators
Night Shield

Ravager 105
3 Disintegrators
Night Shield


Ravager 105
3 Disintegrators
Night Shield




Total = 1585

No I just need to figure out some way of using the extra 165 or so points. Or maybe I can convince them to cut to 1500...

 

[danjones87]

Edited 1st post

 

[Toloran]

Looks quite good now. My only concern now is that you need at least one more troop choice, preferably two. Here is what I suggest: (Note: I don't have my codex with me so numbers are from memory)

- Remove the two warriors from the HQ squad: The HQ squad should always either be in their raider or in assault with something. The only real benefit of putting warriors in that unit is as ablative wounds vs power weapons. If an Incubi + Lord unit is attacking an enemy unit, the extra shooting attacks are just icing on the cake: The enemy unit is going to die anyway. This is especially true considering the size of the unit (6 incubi + Drazhar? That'll kill anything you should be assaulting). Total Points: -36

- Take a warrior squad of 10 warriors with two splinter cannons. Total Points: 100

- Take a warrior squad of 5 warriors with a Dark Lance and a Raider. I know this is the opposite of what I said earlier but bare with me. What you do is deploy the warriors separate from the raider and put the raider next to the splinter cannon unit. In 5th edition, dedicated transports can carry ANY of your units, not just the one they are dedicated to. The only restriction being is that the only unit that can START inside a dedicated transport is the one that it is dedicate to. So on the first turn you load the splinter cannon team into the raider and now you have a "Super Gunboat" that can move 12" and fire a DL, Two splinter cannons, and 8 splinter rifles. Total Points: 105pts

That should put you at 1754 which is only 4pts over. That leaves 5pts to cut or not worry about it at all (if your group isn't super picky). If you want to be 100% legit just drop a single dissy from a ravager, It isn't going to miss it.

 

[tiny_the_tokin_bear]

I've seen a few references to this actually, it looks quite effective. The list I saw using this had blasters as well but the short range on them makes it seem like a waste of points. I'm going to have to pick up some more troops to finish off this list though, I'm short 1 raiderr now Thanks for all the tips!

The list:


Archon
Punisher
Tormentor Helm
Combat Drugs
Shadow Field
Animus Vitae
Drazhar, Master of Blades
6 Incubi
Raider
Plasma Grenades for squad


Wych Succubus
Agoniser
9 Wyches
Wych Weapons for Squad
Plasma Grenades for Squad
Raider


Wych Succubus
Agoniser
9 Wyches
Wych Weapons for Squad
Plasma Grenades for Squad
Raider


10 warriors
8 Splinter Rifles
2 Dark Lance

10 warriors
8 Splinter Rifles
2 Dark Lance

10 Warriors
8 Splinter Rifles
2 Splinter Cannons

5 Warriors
4 Splinter Rifles
1 Dark Lance
Raider

Ravager 105
3 Disintegrators
Night Shield

Ravager 105
3 Disintegrators
Night Shield


Ravager 105
3 Disintegrators
Night Shield




Total = 1754