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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is my attempt at a 1750 competitive list:

HQ
Chaos Lord with daemon weapon and jump pack
@ 150

Elites
5 Terminator Champions with 5 pairs of lightning claws and icon of chaos glory
@ 260

Troops
9 Chaos Space Marines with missile launcher and icon of chaos glory
Aspiring Champion
Chaos Rhino with daemonic possession and dozer blade
@ 245

9 Chaos Space Marines with missile launcher and icon of chaos glory
Aspiring Champion
Chaos Rhino with daemonic possession and dozer blade
@ 245

9 Chaos Space Marines with missile launcher and icon of chaos glory
Aspiring Champion
Chaos Rhino with daemonic possession and dozer blade
@ 245

Fast Attack
8 Chaos Raptors with flamer, meltagun and icon of chaos glory
Aspiring Champion with power weapon
@ 235

Heavy Support
Chaos Land Raider with extra armour and dozer blade
@ 240

Summoned Daemons
10 Summoned Lesser Daemons
@ 130

Total - 1750

The basic strategy with the army is as follows. The terminators in the land raider will go and assault the enemy as fast as possible, creating a distraction for my opponent. The land raider will then, after it's dropped off the terminators, shoot any armoured threats with it's twin-linked lascannons.
The 3 CSM squads will quickly advance to objectives in their rhinos and sit on objectives while shooting down infantry and other incoming threats. The missile launchers can also take down light vehicles if the land raider is tied up.
The Lord will join the raptor squad who, on turn 5, will move quickly to contest objectives. The raptor squad can also tie up enemies if they are threatening one of my objectives. The summoned daemons will take on the supports role, as they can be summoned in front of every unit (apart from the land raider). This means whoever needs help when they become available can instantly get reinforcements. Also, they can be summoned near the end of the game to help contest objectives. These two units will be tactically flexible and relatively expendable, as I will sacrifice them, if need be, to protect a more important unit.

Constructive criticism and help with the list and tactics will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 

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Your raptor squad will be your only infantry unit on the table at the start of the game and will therefore take a lot of enemy firepower. I think you would be better off with a second meltagun rather than a flamer. Daemon weapons in my experience are not worth the points, you would be better off with lightning claws or a sorceror with warptime.

Consider giving the terminators an icon of khorne instead and possibly a chainfist to help deal with vehicles. Also the land raider doesn't really need a dozer blade, can work as a points filler though.

Chaos space marine squads need to be 10 strong to take a heavy weapon. These squads work best with two special weapons ideally meltaguns. The only reason to take an aspiring champion is to get a power fist in the squad, either add power fists or drop the champions. Rhinos don't need daemonic possession or dozer blades, its makes them too expensive. They're best run cheap with no upgrades.

Your list really lacks anti tank. What if you face someone running 3 land raiders, you've only got 1 meltagun to stop them. Obliterators work well as anti tank units but unfortunately don't really fit the mechanised theme you are going for. Running your chaos space marine squads with 2 meltaguns and adding some combi meltas to the terminators would help a lot.
 

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I'd suggest taking all upgrades off of your Rhinos, they're pretty much wasted points. Also, remove the champion upgrades from your termies, again, that's 50 extra points that are better off served somewhere else, like a power fist and some combi-meltas in the squad. You definately need some more anti-tank in there. Try using the 130 point Predator with sponson lascannons. The CSM squads definately need to be in groups of 10, also, try using 2 meltaguns instead of a missle launcher in 1 of the squads and give your champ a power fist, and flamers in the other 2 with no aspiring champion upgrade. The raptor squad could drop the flamer for another meltagun and the champ could replace his power weapon with a power fist for some extra tank killing power. Drop the demon weapon on the Chaos Lord and replace it with a set of lightning claws. Not quite sure if the demons would work well in your army, you already have the termies and raptors for tying groups up and the demons would kind of lack some power, if you find yourself strapped for points, try cutting them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
How about this?


HQ
Chaos Sorcerer with warptime and jump pack
145

Elites
5 Terminator Champions with 5 pairs of lightning claws and icon of chaos glory
260

Troops
10 Chaos Space Marines with 2 meltaguns and icon of chaos glory
Aspiring Champion with power fist
Chaos Rhino
255

10 Chaos Space Marines with 2 meltaguns and icon of chaos glory
Aspiring Champion with power fist
Chaos Rhino
255

10 Chaos Space Marines with 2 meltaguns and icon of chaos glory
Aspiring Champion with power fist
Chaos Rhino
255

Fast Attack
9 Chaos Raptors with 2 meltaguns and icon of chaos glory
210

Heavy Support
Chaos Land Raider with extra armour and dozer blade
240

Summoned Daemons
10 Summoned Lesser Daemons
130


Total
1750


Sorry about the way I wrote the squads on the last list - I listed the champs separately. The CSM squads were all meant to be 10, I just wrote 9 CSM's 1 champ. I have changed it now and included the champ as an upgrade to avoid any more confusion.


Anyway, with this list I took the upgrades off the rhinos and gave every squad 2 meltas. The only problem I have with getting rid of the missile launchers is that they are good for horde armies, however ML's and meltas are the same points cost so I can swap them around without drastically changing the list.

I changed the chaos lord to a sorcerer and gave him a jump pack so he could still go along with the raptors, and warptime for extra killing power.

I'm gonna keep the termies as champs with twin lighting claws as that gives them 5 attacks each, 6 on the charge, re-rolling failed wounds and ignoring armour saves, making them devastating in close combat.

I also gave all of the champs in the CSM squads power fists for extra anti-tank. I expect these squads will be moving more now towards the enemy due to a lack of long ranged weapons, and the fact that meltas roll 2D6 against vehicles from 6" away.

I want to keep the summoned daemons as they are able to appear instantly to contest an objective or to support my other units. Also, they are relatively reliable as well because they don't scatter when they deep strike.


Thanks for the suggestions so far, really helpful.
Is this list any better? What do you guys think?
 

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Icon of khorne would be better than chaos glory on the terminators. If they are taking morale checks especially with negative modifiers they have probably lost a few guys already by which stage they will probably not have much more of an impact on the game so it doesn't matter if they run off. Using the icon of khorne rather than champion upgrades also saves you points. You definately need to add a chainfist to your terminator squad, otherwise things like dreadnoughts will be able to tie your devestating close combat unit up.

If you've got the points available I think it would be worthwhile adding a champion to the raptor squad and giving him a power fist or lightning claws.

The only problem I have with getting rid of the missile launchers is that they are good for horde armies
All the bolters in the squad provide anti infantry firepower.


I want to keep the summoned daemons as they are able to appear instantly to contest an objective or to support my other units. Also, they are relatively reliable as well because they don't scatter when they deep strike.
I also find lesser daemons to be a fairly useful addition. I normally just use them to hold an objective in my deployment zone, have them go to ground and they are fairly difficult to shift from the objective.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ah, I see what you're saying with the termies. I was thinking lose the champ and lightning claws on one of them, and give him a chainfist and heavy flamer? I also like the idea of changing the icon from glory to khorne, however I don't know what to lose elsewhere (apart from the land raider's dozer blade) to make up for the points. If I lose the icon of chaos glory and the dozer blade of the land raider that leaves me with another 15 points to try and free up. Any suggestions?

I'm not sure about the champ with a power fist in the raptor squad though, as I really don't have 40 points to spare for extra anti tank. To be honest I think the 8 melta guns, the 3 power fists, the 2 twin-linked lascannons and the chainfist on the termies will be enough anti tank. Anyway, if a dreadnought decides to assault my raptors, that's them fulfilling their roll in tying up dangerous units, right?

Thanks again for all the help so far! This list is looking great! Oh, and I probably should have mentioned this before, but the only unit I've bought so far is the land raider, so if you think a certain unit really wouldn't work (apart from the land raider :p) then feel free to say.
 

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If you're worried about not having enough anti-infantry weapons, try equiping Havoc Launchers to your Rhinos, str 5 ap5 blast weapons do wonders to Orks, IG and Nids and can be pretty good even against Space Marines due to wounding on 3+.
 

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Well personally I would drop the raptors, they're out of place in this list. Drop one of the terminators and replace your hq with a unit to go in the land raider. With the points left over you could get some predators, another chaos space marine squad or something else.

The idea with the icon of khorne was to replace the champion upgrades. 30pt icon or 50pts worth of champion upgrades yet you get the same number of attacks. I think the best way to run your terminator squad would be: icon of khorne, 4 with lightning claw and combi melta and 1 with chainfist and heavy flamer. If you want to include a hq choice to go in the land raider drop 1 of the terminators with lighting claw and combi melta. I think twin lightning claws and champion upgrade was a bit overkill.

I would have said that a power fist champion would have been more useful on the raptors rather than a chaos space marine squad. If a dreadnought manages to charge a chaos space marine squad with 2 meltaguns and a rhino, you've screwed up.
Anyway, if a dreadnought decides to assault my raptors, that's them fulfilling their roll in tying up dangerous units, right?
The problem being the raptor squad costs twice as much as the dreadnought and it will easily kill you in close combat but you can't realy retaliate. Lesser daemons are much more effective at tying up dangerous units.


You could also consider swapping your chaos space marine squads to plague marines. They are harder to kill but there are less of them. I don't think it will make much difference to the list, just choose the ones you prefer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Alright. If I drop the raptors I have another 210 points to spend.

Here's the new termie unit with my new HQ:

Chaos Lord with terminator armour, pair of lightning claws and mark of Khorne
140

4 Chaos Terminators with 3 pairs of lightning claws, a chainfist, a heavy flamer and mark of Khorne
200

That leaves me with another 65 points to spend.

I dropped the champs as I agree that Mark of Khorne and champs is overkill. I'm also considering dropping the power fists on the marines and maybe changing them to power weapons for extra close combat punch? Also, I like ghost of rage's idea about havoc launchers. If I drop the power fists for power weapons and give the rhinos havoc launchers that still leaves me with another 260 points to spend on other stuff.

I was thinking, as I now have 1 less unit to tie up enemies, that I might take another unit of 10 daemons with the extra points? I suppose then I could spend the last 130 points on a predator perhaps? As I don't currently have any dedicated anti-tank, only the meltas on my marines, the terminators' chain fist and the lascannons on my land raider, however all of these units aren't intended for tank hunting. What builds are good for predators anyway?Then again, with the lascannons on the predator, I would still have to roll a 6 to get a penetrating hit on a land raider or a monolith or the front armour of a leman russ etc. I don't know... what do you guys think?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Actually, scrap all of those ideas in my previous post, apart from the one with the lord and the terminators.

I'm keeping the terminator lord and terminators, however, I'm gonna lose the khorne stuff and keep them as champs, and give the lord a daemon weapon instead of lightning claws. (I am keeping the chainfist and the heavy flamer, though!)

I'm gonna leave my Rhinos bare apart from a combi-melta, so that after they've dropped off my troops the Rhino can drive off and pop a tank from 6" rolling 2D6 for armour penetration. I am leaving the power fists on so my marines can, if meltas fail, assault walkers and the like and do some damage.

I am going to split my summoned lesser daemons into squads of 5, and add another 10, so I have a total of 4 groups of 5. I am also, with the remaining 100 points, going to get a summoned greater daemon, as I have just looked at their profile again. 100 points for a unit that can appear virtually anywhere, assault a squad of space marines, for example, with 6 attacks (on the charge), hit on 3+, wound on 2+ and ignore armour saves. Wow! It also has 4 wounds and toughness 6 making it very hard to kill, and it strikes on initiative 4. I see why it's 0-1.

So, without further ado, here's the new list:

HQ
Chaos Lord with Terminator armour, daemon weapon and personal icon 150

Elites
4 Terminator Champions with 3 pairs of lightning claws, chainfist and heavy flamer 210

Troops
10 Chaos Space Marines with 2 meltaguns and icon of chaos glory
Aspiring Champion with power fist
Chaos Rhino with combi-melta 265

10 Chaos Space Marines with 2 meltaguns and icon of chaos glory
Aspiring Champion with power fist
Chaos Rhino with combi-melta 265

10 Chaos Space Marines with 2 meltaguns and icon of chaos glory
Aspiring Champion with power fist
Chaos Rhino with combi-melta 265

Heavy Support
Chaos Land Raider with extra armour 235

Summoned Daemons
1 Summoned Greater Daemon 100

5 Summoned Lesser Daemons 65

5 Summoned Lesser Daemons 65

5 Summoned Lesser Daemons 65

5 Summoned Lesser Daemons 65


Total
1750

What do you think?
 

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The chaos lord with daemon weapon had managed to find its way back into the list. In my opinion there are much better choices for leading terminators in a land raider: Abaddon>Kharn>Sorceror with warptime>Chaos lord with lightning claws. If you do use Kharn you would be better off separating him from the terminators to prevent him from killing them as well.


I'm gonna leave my Rhinos bare apart from a combi-melta, so that after they've dropped off my troops the Rhino can drive off and pop a tank from 6" rolling 2D6 for armour penetration. I am leaving the power fists on so my marines can, if meltas fail, assault walkers and the like and do some damage.
A power fist on a standard chaos space marine isn't really going to do a lot verses a walker. You only get 3 attacks on the charge, against dreadnoughts only half will hit then you need to roll a 5+ to get a penetrating hit, then a 5+ to do any decent damage.

The rhinos are as much for protection as mobility, you want to stay in them for as long as possible to avoid anti infantry fire and prevent things charging you. You only want to disembark if there is a good target you can rapid fire or during the later stages of the game when there is less to target your marines. I don't think the combi melta is worth it beacause your rhinos will probably be moving a lot and so won't be able to fire you would be better off putting the points elsewhere.


Don't forget when using a greater daemon you have to posses a lord, champion etc. The cheapest champion you have is 55 points which means the greater daemon isn't quite the bargain it seems.


I don't see why you still want the champion upgrade on the terminators. Icon of khorne is 10 points cheaper and practically gives the same result.


The predator with triple lascannons would be useful for anti tank but it is overcosted in my opinion (compared to an imperial guard vendetta, 130 points for 3 twin-linked lascannons) and isn't all that great against tanks. I like the predator with autocannons, heavy bolter and a havoc launcher. Great against infantry, heavy infantry, monstrous creatures and even light vehicles if needed.


I think you should drop the greater daemon, possibly some of the lesser daemons, the chaos space marine champions. With the points add in 2 predators with the configuration I mentioned above, upgarde your lord to something more powerful and possibly another chaos space marine squad if you've got the points.
 

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I think something like this would work:

Kharn
4 Terminators - Icon of Khorne, 3 Pairs of Lightning Claws, Heavy Flamer, Chainfist
Land Raider Extra Armour

10 Chaos Space Mairnes - 2 Meltaguns, Rhino

10 Chaos Space Mairnes - 2 Meltaguns, Rhino

10 Chaos Space Mairnes - 2 Meltaguns, Rhino

Predator - Autocannon, Heavy Bolters, Havoc Launcher

7 Lesser Daemons

Predator - Autocannon, Heavy Bolters, Havoc Launcher

Predator - Autocannon, Heavy Bolters, Havoc Launcher

Total: 1741pts

You could pick a cheaper hq and get more lesser daemos. You could replace the chaos space marines with plague marines. You save a few points but are a lot shorter on bodies.
10 Chaos Space Mairnes - 2 Meltaguns, Rhino @205 points
6 Plague Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Rhino @193 points
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
K, thanks for all the help guys. I probably won't take Kharn as I don't really like special characters, but I like the rest of that list.

Thanks again,
SomePerson
 
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