[Tragedy316]

In some of my previous posts you have learned that I am going to Origins this summer and am looking forward to probably my first ever OFFICIAL tournament. Up until now I have had a few games at the local GW and a few with friends. I have been tweeking an army out now and seem to almost have it down exactly where I want it. Just a few bits of fine points tuning should have it. Ill post it here and then you guys can critique it and let me know where some points should be spent different or any glaring holes that you might see.
Thanks

HQ
1-Hive Tyrant: +1WS, Flesh Hooks, Toxic Miasma, +1S, Winged, Scything Talonsx2, Warp Field=192pts

1-Broodlord: +1SV, Rending Claws, Scything Talons=80pts
5-Genestealers: +1SV, Rending Claws=100pts

ELITE
4-Warriors: +1BS, +1SV, +1S, Scything Talonsx4, DeathSpitterx3, Venom Cannonx1=154pts

4-Warriors: +1BS, +1SV, +1S, Scything Talonsx4, DeathSpitterx3, Venom Cannonx1=154pts

TROOPS
12-Gaunts: Fleshborers=72pts

12-Gaunts: Fleshborers=72pts

20-Hormagaunts: +1S, Scything Talons=240pts

11-Genestealers: Rending Claws, +1SV=220pts

HEAVY SUPPORT
1-Carnifex: +1BS, +1SV, Flesh Hooks, +1W, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon=189pts

1-Carnifex: +1BS, +1SV, Flesh Hooks, +1W, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon=189pts

1-Carnifex: +1BS, +1SV, +1W, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon=188pts

TOTAL: 1850pts
WOUNDS: 98
MODELS: 73

The Flesh Hooks on the Cfexs are there just for the points.

 

[[Black] Katalyst]

HQ
1-Hive Tyrant: +1WS, Flesh Hooks, Toxic Miasma, +1S, Winged, Scything Talonsx2, Warp Field=192pts

-Very nice, once this thing gets into combat, lots of things will die.

1-Broodlord: +1SV, Rending Claws, Scything Talons=80pts
5-Genestealers: +1SV, Rending Claws=100pts

-Very nice, I like smaller retinue's, they are easier to move through cover.

ELITE
4-Warriors: +1BS, +1SV, +1S, Scything Talonsx4, DeathSpitterx3, Venom Cannonx1=154pts

4-Warriors: +1BS, +1SV, +1S, Scything Talonsx4, DeathSpitterx3, Venom Cannonx1=154pts

-I prefer shooty warriors myself, very nice, very effective.

TROOPS
12-Gaunts: Fleshborers=72pts

12-Gaunts: Fleshborers=72pts

-Cound be switched to spinefists to save points, but its only personal preference.

20-Hormagaunts: +1S, Scything Talons=240pts

-Very nice, these guys get to the enemy lines quickly.

11-Genestealers: Rending Claws, +1SV=220pts

-Excellent for that occasional high toughness model or a rouge tank.

HEAVY SUPPORT
1-Carnifex: +1BS, +1SV, Flesh Hooks, +1W, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon=189pts

1-Carnifex: +1BS, +1SV, Flesh Hooks, +1W, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon=189pts

1-Carnifex: +1BS, +1SV, +1W, Barbed Strangler, Venom Cannon=188pts

-Lovely.

Only thing I'd consider switching, is dropping one fex to an elite dakafex(2x TL Devourers and ES) and use the remaing poing for a few more hormagaunts to have 2x broods of 12. And possibly feeder tenrils on the genestealer to support the hormagaunts so they can benifit from the prefered enemy rules.

 

[molaticdeath]

No need for getting flesh hooks...ever. Nids naturally have a high 'I' already... and the hive tyrant is winged plus the shooty carni won't see much cc combat till later on in the game.... thus flesh hooks are pointless.......genestealers are the backbone...the reason people fear the nids... i suggest more of them.

 

[Marvus]

I recon keep the flesh hooks, because nothing is worse then loosing the high initiative to models in cover.

The list looks very effective. It should do well. Happy hunting.

 

[Tragedy316]

The original version of this list did have a Dakkafex in it(not an elite one because I had more points I could use but still had tl-devourers). It did okay but then i thought why am I spending 153 points(its original cost) on something when i can just remove a Stealer or two and make another Gun Fex. Originally the Broodlord had six stealers with him and the other group had twelve. I dont see taking one stealer from each to have any serious side effects, since 33 Rending shots on the charge is not gonna be much different from 36.

Im also debating on whether I should find the points to put in three sets of three warriors instead of two. It would make the synapse net larger, but would make each group a bit weaker. Thoughts?

As far as the gaunts go, its all I have at the moment. I may down the line get another box of them, but for now thats all. The hormagaunts in one big group wreck havoc, ALOT of HAVOC. Good thing about them too is they create a tail that lets the Warriors keep synapse on the head of the tail is way far away. The Fleshborer gaunts work better for me since the S4 hits are great against SMURFS, CHAOS SMURFS, NECRONS, And just about anything else, letting me wound on 4's instead of 5's. Granted they need to get INTO range before worrying about that, but with everything else scary on the table(HT, 3FEXS, Large squads of Stealers and Hormies), they might actually make it. It all depends on what my opponent sees as a threat. Basically on average, they would be killing one MEQ with 12 shots vs. 2/3MEQ with spinefists. One dead marine is well worth more than a 2/3 dead marine

Thank though for the compliments and the feedback. Any tactics you might want to suggest to would be appreciated.

 

[Marvus]

With the warriors, IMO three suqads of 3 would be better then two of four. This creates more targets for the enemy (splitting his fire) and means that you get an extra VC in there aswell, ontop of the extra two wounds. It also emans with three squads they can be spread out more for extra synapse coverage. The only problem is finding the points. Either, make a cheap dakka fex, or maybe get rid of the extra biomporhs on one of the gun fex's, which doesn't seem like an attrative offer. Up to you really. Play test it, and if you find synapse is running thin then give it a shot.

The other way to do it is to make the 3rd sqaud cc based, with ag-I, ST, RC, EC and leaping, which from memory comes in at somehting like 114 i think, which could be infact cheaper then what you atm. This howver does mean loosing two warriors with deathspitters.

 

[bonekrusher]

Looks like you are trying run a cross between a balance /godzilla list. For 1500pts game 98 wounds is fine but you are playing on 1850 so I believe you do not have enough wounds. Either go all out on godzilla or stick to balance. You have only 11 units. I would drop at least one fex and get the following 1 to 3 stealers to make 2 broods or either 6 or 7. I would get more hormagaunts and break down into 2 groups of 12 to 13. Then change the gaunts into the cheap one so you can get more meatshields. This will give you more models, wounds and units. Remember squad can only shoot at 1 unit at a time. I usually just run one fex and get 3 broods of stealers, gaunts and maybe 2 broods of hormagaunts.
goodluck on origins
bonekrusher

 

[LordCreampuff]

No need for getting flesh hooks...ever. Nids naturally have a high 'I' already... and the hive tyrant is winged plus the shooty carni won't see much cc combat till later on in the game.... thus flesh hooks are pointless.......genestealers are the backbone...the reason people fear the nids... i suggest more of them.

Initiative doesn't matter when charging into cover. Even if you had an I of 9 you would still strike last. Flesh Hooks are a nice addition to first-strike units but can begin to get expensive. I typically put Flesh Hooks on my flying Tyrant to prevent characters with power weapons in cover from striking first. As long as I get my 6 attacks in first I'm usually happy. Flesh Hooks on the fexes is a complete waste of points.

I would rather put rending claws on my shooty Warriors. People will think twice when charging a rending unit. I have found that converting all your attacks to rending is always better than one extra attack that must still roll to wound and save. I also think rending claws are a cheaper upgrade (but I don't have my codex handy).

I typically only field Spinegaunts as no matter what Gaunt you field you typically only get one shot before you're in CC. If you're planning on using Gaunts only for shooting then stick with the Fleshborers. Don't forget the points you save on the spinefists means more Gaunts so your calculations below may be incorrect. It looked like you were assuming two squads of equal number. To be correct you must compare squads of equal point value. From what I've read both spinefists and fleshborers perform almost identically when used but spinefists will give you more wounds which is typically a good thing with 'nids.

You can't go wrong with gunfexes, but I typically field two with a unit of three zoanthropes with warp blast for less points. Their STR 5 AP3 blast really hurts marines and can be a nice addition to soften up MEQ squads before the charge and the occaisional tank/transport hunting. Plus I move the zoanthropes up with my charging army to soak up some firepower.

 

[Gorbass]

You have 20 hormagaunts in one unit, I'd split them up into 2 units, there's also 24 termagaunts, why not go with 3 units of 8 instead.
This will provide the enemy with a additional targets and you with more scoring units and more fleet of claw rolls.

The warriors would benefit from having rending claws instead of scything talons, with 2 attacks on the charge, rending becomes really dangerous.

I'd lose the fleshhooks on the Tyrant (and all the other models too) as well as the Toxic Miasma, instead I'd give him either Implant attack Adrenal glands (I).

 

[[Black] Katalyst]

Any tactics you might want to suggest to would be appreciated.

I'd try to set up so like this...



Tyrant_______Gaunts______________________Gaunts
Carnifex_____Hormagaunts___Carnifex____Genestealers____Carnifex
_______________________ Warriors_____Warriors_________________________

and let the Brood Lord infiltrate where needed.


-The tyrant can sweep up a flank and won't block much line of site for shooting.

-The carnifexes are spread so they can have optimal fire support/firing lanes.

-The gaunts will soak up and chrages so the hormagaunts and genestealers can get a decent charge.

-The warriors will concentate their fire together to weaken any units threatening the gaunts while advancing with their synapse.

 

[Tragedy316]

Thank you all for your responses. I actually think this has been the most for my army yet. I need to answer a few questions though. More like statements that need rebuttals.

A). The Flesh Hooks on the CFex's are there ONLY because I was two points under and they are 1 point apiece. That is the ONLY reason and I had stated this at the end of my original post. The hooks on the Tyrant however are there for the reason that my Tyrant is CC happy and it prevents him getting killed before his 6 attacks on the charge when going into cover. Atleast then he will get to whoop something back.

B). I also stated at the moment, my gaunt models are limited to what I had posted. That means 20Hormies and 24 Gaunts. Until I buy more(and if that is even needed), then I cant do much about that.

b2). A note about the Spine Gaunts vs. Flesh borers. I had to rethink the calculations too. I didnt think about the fact that yes I would get two more spinegaunts for the same points. I ALSO didnt count the fact that Spinefists are twinlinked nor did I take into account the fact that Fleshborers are Living Ammunition. So the new calculations go: Fleshborers=1.5dead, Spinefists=2.33 dead for the same points. So yes I was wrong about Fleshborers doing more damage but at this point with out more models to use, the Fleshborers are staying.

C). Rending is 2points more expensive then Scything Talons. And they get 3 attacks on the charge, since they have base 2.

c2). I also never rely on rending anymore after seeing what 25 Rending shots against an Exorcist CANT do. With only 1 rending shot and three normal hits in that dice pool, it opened my eyes to the fact that yes while rending is good in numbers, it isnt something that should be relied upon solely. I would, if I was my opponent most certainly charge a group of three warriors with rending claws, especially if I had a sizeable MEQ squad. Plus, the Warriors are there mainly for shooting. If they see combat it wasnt me initiating it as I would rather use them to help with light transport killing or softening up squads before a charge like Katalyst said.

D). The small group idea: I have tried this both ways. Using minimum numbers in squads so I could spread out the attacks and give my guys better chances of getting into combat. It does provide more scoring units. HOWEVER, with the smaller amount of guys in the unit it is much easier to make them a nonscoring unit by killing less guys. In a battle at my friends house I tried the small group theory. We played Victory points. If I had kept my groups together instead of splitting them, I would have actually won that battle. Since my smaller units were mostly below 50%, they ceased to be scoring units even though I had only lost maybe 4 or 5 guys depending. Good in some cases, bad in others, and since I dont know exactly what I will be facing or the win conditions up there, I need to go with the larger groups.

E). The flesh hooks on the Tyrant may go depsite what I said earlier. The Miasma has won me games actually. The Tyrant went one on one with a Greater Demon of Slannesh and won, mainly due to the lowered WS of the demon(also bad rolling on his part). For 6 points its a bargain just to see IG trying to hit on 5's

F). I do have enough to do three squads of three warriors as far as models go. That means lowering the third gunfex back to its original Dakkafex status. This is something I am strongly considering because my Hive Tyrant tends to do what it wants and leaves the kids with babysitters(namely the Warriors). What a bad momma partying with other monsters and HQ's while leaving the Elites to tend the young. I scolded her once about being late for the battle because she was having tea with a Canonness....um....maybe I should stop before the guys in white coats come by.....

All in all there still are a few changes that are needed. Minor ones, but the list as is has provided me with some wins, so something is going right. i will definitly post a revised list here soon and I will try and get some battle reports from Origins as well. Thanks to all for your advice and dont think that I am being stubborn with my rebuttals, im only trying to let you see where Im coming from on some of my decisions.