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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For an upcoming tournament I have written two lists, between I still have to choose.
The first is a drop pod heavy list, the second an army combining Rhino's and a Bike powerhouse.
Any comments are appreciated. Plz fire away.

For Russ!

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Wolf Lord (118 )
frost blade, stormbolter
terminator armour, Wolf Pelt

Wolf Guard Bodyguard (300)
2. lightning claw, stormbolter
1. thunderhammer, assault cannon
1. chainfist, assault cannon
Drop pod

Venerable Dreadnought (203)
DCCW, heavy flamer, assault cannon
extra armour, smoke
Drop pod

WG Battle Leader (183)
frost blade, bp
frags, meltabombs, Wolf Pelt, WT Necklace
bike
4 Fenrisian Wolves

Wolf Scout pack (76)
4. Scouts w/ meltagun, plasma pistol

Grey Hunter pack (270)
7. bolter
1. meltagun
1. powerweapon
Wolf Guard w/ powerfist, bp, frags, Wolf Pelt, WT Necklace
Drop pod

Grey Hunter pack (270)
7. bolter
1. meltagun
1. powerweapon
Wolf Guard w/ powerfist, bp, frags, Wolf Pelt, WT Necklace
Drop pod

Grey Hunter pack (270)
7. bolter
1. meltagun
1. powerweapon
Wolf Guard w/ powerfist, bp, frags, Wolf Pelt, WT Necklace
Drop pod

LS Tornado (80)
heavy bolter

LS Tornado (80)
heavy bolter

= 1850

The main force are of course the podding troops: the Wolf Lord and his retinue, the Ven Dread and 3 packs of GHs. All can unleash fire on the turn they land. After they can both keep shooting and assault, a versatile force.
In support there are the 'Speeders, the Scouts and the WGBL on bike with his Wolves. The WGBL can either clean up smaller enemy units or pop a tank with his meltabombs and the others do whatever Scouts and 'Speeders do.;)
On the field of AT there are primarily the 'Speeders and the Scouts. Furthermore the termies and the Ven Dread also have 3 assault cannons between them, there are 2 powerfists or related weapons in each pack and finally a number of meltaguns and bombs scattered through the army.
My main concern is that I might lack some horde-control.

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Wolf Lord (195)
frost blade, bp
Belt of Russ, frags, Wolf Pelt, WT Talisman, WT Necklace
bike
2 Fenrisian Wolves

Venerable Dreadnought (203)
DCCW, heavy flamer, assault cannon
extra armour, smoke
Drop pod

Rune Priest (160)
twin-LC
frags, Runic Charm, Wolf Pelt, WT Talisman
bike

Wolf Guard Bodyguard (226)
3. ccw, bp
1. thunderhammer, bp, Runic Charm, WT Necklace
all w/ bike, frags

Wolf Scout pack (76)
4. Scouts w/ meltagun, plasma pistol

Grey Hunter pack (272)
7. bolter
1. plasmagun
1. powerweapon
1. powerfist
Rhino w/ extra armour, smoke

Grey Hunter pack (272)
7. bolter
1. plasmagun
1. powerweapon
1. powerfist
Rhino w/ extra armour, smoke

Grey Hunter pack (201)
4. bolter
1. plasmagun
1. powerweapon
Razorback w/ extra armour, smoke

LS Tornado (80)
heavy bolter, assault cannon

LS Tornado (80)
heavy bolter, assault cannon

Whirlwind (85)

= 1850

This is a more combined arms army.
First the GHs in their transports can either zoom right across the field or do it more carefully using terrain. In range they will disembark and start firing bolters and plasma's. They also have the capability to either accept or give assault.
The second main force are the Wolf Lord, the Rune Priest and the bikers. Under cover from Storm Caller, terrain and Boost they rush up the enemy carving a huge swath in the enemy lines whereever they go. The Wolf Lord is perfectly geared as a character hunter and together with his he can detach himself from the rest to devote to that business. The Rune Priest on the other hand is a troopkiller.
This list has somewhat less AT, but not harmfully so. On the other hand it has good horde-control with the Whirlwind.
 

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4,330 Posts
I love list 2, rhinos (despite what anyone says) are SW down to a 'tee'.

The only thing is you have no blood claws, how come? their assaults are awesome.

I would give the scouts meltabombs so when they OBEL they can slap a few tanks around.

THe rune preist is good, but a wolf priest is a more economic choice and he's cheaper.
 

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43 Posts
Both lists are pretty solid and not cheesy.

List One lends much heavier firepower with the two assault cannons. I was wondering if you would beef up your GH packs with more powerfists by trimming elsewhere...like reducing the Wolf Guard Bodyguard's Thunderhammer/Chainfist down to a Powerfist, or leaving a Fenrisian wolf at home to babysit the litter. However, having a drop pod force adds much uncertainty to your tournament list...something you "may" not want for a tourney (although IMHO I think it's more fun). Some Drop Pod forces have been chewed up one unit at a time...but then again, you may get lucky and have several drops at the same time thus swarming your opponents to bits.

For Horde forces...I guess it "would" be possible to deploy your Terminators as opposed to dropping them. With four Assault Cannons starting on the board you have the potential to really chew up the opposing force.

I really like list Two. I would guess this list offers you more stability versus a dropped force. Stability and consistency is something I'd imagine you'd want to have in a tournament as opposed to depending a bit more on the luck of the roll.

The Wolf Guard on bike seem a little pricey, but then again, I would like to see them beefed up with either power weapons or one more powerfist (unless they really are there as ablative armor for the Rune Priest).

Hmm, although I would like to see a bit more concentration of Powerfists in your GH, they seem like a solid lot. Why Plasma over Melta when Melta adds a bit more Anti-tank punch to the unit? I could almost imagine you shaving a lot of points by taking a Blood Claw pack instead of Grey Hunters and adding Las-Cannons to your Razorback for a bit more firepower.

Anyhow, looks solid either way although I favor list Two over One.

Fox
 

· Ghost of LO
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4,429 Posts
This list is the better of the two, so i will review it.


Wolf Lord (118 )
frost blade, stormbolter
terminator armour, Wolf Pelt
Reduce this dude to a battle leader.

Wolf Guard Bodyguard (300)
2. lightning claw, stormbolter
1. thunderhammer, assault cannon
1. chainfist, assault cannon
Drop pod
Switch the chain fist for a 3rd lightening claw. Thunderhammer is pretty good against tanks, but the assault cannons are the real threat anyway.

Venerable Dreadnought (203)
DCCW, heavy flamer, assault cannon
extra armour, smoke
Drop pod
Having good BS is nice with Acs, between the terminators, landspeeders and this guy, youve got 5 ACs, thats 20 shots, your looking good for anti tank.

WG Battle Leader (183)
frost blade, bp
frags, meltabombs, Wolf Pelt, WT Necklace
bike
4 Fenrisian Wolves
Ditch the melta bombs, WT necklace and the wolfs.

melta bombs arent a good choice, hes far better at assaulting infantry.
WT necklace isnt really needed either, he hit almost everything on 3s anyway, and with no invunerable save, its best he stay away from ICs.
Fenrisian wolves, again not a good selection, this is because they dont have 3+ saves, (im not sure if they can turbo boost, however they move at the speed of there owner, seems impossible for a wolve to run that fast though. None the less a 5+ invunerable save, or what ever there armour save would be, isnt gonna save them. So ditch them, and if you feel you need a body gaurd, join a GHs squad.
Wolf Scout pack (76)
4. Scouts w/ meltagun, plasma pistol
Make these 6 man, + WG leader.
Buff out this WG leader, as youve dont below.
Add 1 plsama pistol, or powersword.
Do not give them melta bombs.

Grey Hunter pack (270)
7. bolter
1. meltagun
1. powerweapon
Wolf Guard w/ powerfist, bp, frags, Wolf Pelt, WT Necklace
Drop pod
Extchange the powerweapon for powerfist. Ditch the WGPL for simply 2 powerfists. Much more effective for the points.

Grey Hunter pack (270)
7. bolter
1. meltagun
1. powerweapon
Wolf Guard w/ powerfist, bp, frags, Wolf Pelt, WT Necklace
Drop pod
Same as above.

Grey Hunter pack (270)
7. bolter
1. meltagun
1. powerweapon
Wolf Guard w/ powerfist, bp, frags, Wolf Pelt, WT Necklace
Drop pod
See above.

LS Tornado (80)
heavy bolter

LS Tornado (80)
heavy bolter
Good choice.


You should come out with some points left over, with those points, fill out your squads of GHs to 10 man squads if possible, unless you have enough to get a whole other 8 man squad.

Peace
 

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1,009 Posts
Araith!
Greetings.
Just to say, the lists are great.

i like both... :(

List 1 is effective, we know.
List 2 on the other hand has shown efficiency in the past...

I say go with list 2, since you know how to play with it, and it IS the real Space Wolf list. Not that many comment, only that, YOU STOLE MY BIKER HQ'S :p lol

WEll, Great Job, and good luck on the Tourney (eat some for me too)
Greetings,
Wulfbanes

P.S. FITFOW, were you moody when writing? OMG, your advise looks aggresive, although, I must say, it is an great advice. ^_^
 

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Hey! I saw that!

Aw, what is it without a bit of fair competition ^_^
And bikes, woo! We have puppies to sit on to run around on, and those go faster than bikes :p

Anyway, keeping the peace,
Wulfbanes
 

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2,153 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the feedback, keep it coming.

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
Thats why dark angles use bikes, while space wolves run around :p
Yeah, DA need something to at try to keep up with us...:shifty:

The_Outsider said:
I love list 2, rhinos (despite what anyone says) are SW down to a 'tee'.

The only thing is you have no blood claws, how come? their assaults are awesome.

I would give the scouts meltabombs so when they OBEL they can slap a few tanks around.

THe rune preist is good, but a wolf priest is a more economic choice and he's cheaper.
BCs are awesome assault troops but I have no BCs 'cause htey didn't fit in my overall plan. In hte first place I'm not fond of podding BCs. More of a GHs sort of thing. In second list I invisioned shock tactics of ridign up there and blasting crap out of the enemy. More shooty tactics. The bikers could have been BCs but I needed some more stamina to the unit and thus took Wolf Guard.

On the Scouts I'm also not a fan of meltabombs. On other units I can see the use of meltabombs, but Scouts already have a melta and a PP. Seems enough to me.

I took teh Rune Priest coz saving 1 life per turn isn't enough. The cover will do more for a unit of 4 WG, 2 HQs and a number of Wolves. Plus I'm not wasting points taking lightning claws or a frost blade over a normal powerweapon.
What do you think?

Reviewing the other advice in one go:

The first list:

I've taken a Wolf Lord 'cause of both fluff reasons and that I want the 3rd wound. Certainly in teh 2nd list I want to keep him. In the 1st list I could maybe supplant him for a WGBL, as a last resort...

Reducing one of the powerfist-like weapons on the terminator WG seems a good idea yes. I'll prolly for FITFOW's idea on that.

Foxen said:
For Horde forces...I guess it "would" be possible to deploy your Terminators as opposed to dropping them. With four Assault Cannons starting on the board you have the potential to really chew up the opposing force.
Risky, but it might be worth it. I don't know...

On the WGBL, I agree that he'd best stay away from ICs. The reasoning behind the meltabombs and the WTN was that it's a great combo. Hitting vehicles that'd normally on 6s on 3s instead with meltabombs. But I might indeed drop it.
I've taken the wolves, and will keep them, to make him a real unit. And extra attacks never harm. And seeing horde armies being a potential danger, he'll be a good horde-killer.

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
Make these 6 man, + WG leader.
Buff out this WG leader, as youve dont below.
Add 1 plsama pistol, or powersword.
They aren't there to be a strong CC unit. Just to pop tanks. I've saved the points you advice for the Scouts for other units. GHs are better suited for those kinds of tasks anyway.

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
On the GHs: Extchange the powerweapon for powerfist. Ditch the WGPL for simply 2 powerfists. Much more effective for the points.
Mmm, I'll get that 2nd powerfist in each pack. But I want to keep the WGBL for extra prowess in CC. Hitting on 3s really helps. It also makes this a very potent unit if facing tanks etc (tanks don't like being hit on 3s by powerfists).

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
You should come out with some points left over, with those points, fill out your squads of GHs to 10 man squads if possible, unless you have enough to get a whole other 8 man squad.
The packs are already maxed out... You can't put 11 men in a pod.

The second list:

Foxen said:
The Wolf Guard on bike seem a little pricey, but then again, I would like to see them beefed up with either power weapons or one more powerfist (unless they really are there as ablative armor for the Rune Priest).
I had extra weapons for them at first, but had to drop it due to points shortage. And the HQs will provide for a lot of kills anyway. If I could find points for it htough I would have extra equipment.
Foxen said:
Hmm, although I would like to see a bit more concentration of Powerfists in your GH, they seem like a solid lot. Why Plasma over Melta when Melta adds a bit more Anti-tank punch to the unit? I could almost imagine you shaving a lot of points by taking a Blood Claw pack instead of Grey Hunters and adding Las-Cannons to your Razorback for a bit more firepower.
Well, these GHs are primarily shooting units. Which is my reasoning behind hte plasma's. And since they'd possibly not be picking their own fights they might well find themselves against a powerful CC unit, so the powerweapons will at least strike on Initiative. Plus it saves some points.
I've already said why I haven't got BCs. The bikers are there for the assault. Lascannons are a good idea, if I can find the points for it.

Wulfbanes said:
I say go with list 2, since you know how to play with it, and it IS the real Space Wolf list. Not that many comment, only that, YOU STOLE MY BIKER HQ'S :p lol
I was already thinking about lone HQs on bikes, but you indeed made me work the idea out.


Tai'shar
 

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I am not completly sure, but I think if it is you are not going to like this, so I am just saying it.
The Blood Fued and as I remember, but not completly sure of, the WTN as well, only hit vehicles on a 3+ when the vehicles have an Weapon Skill value. Not completly sure, but you should find it on the revised FAQ on the Games Workshop site.

well then, that's sorted out as well :p Would you add my name in the last quote you made, just because, everyone else has their name in the quote, and I want it as well. ( I am a bit of a pain in the ass on the moment ain't I? :D)

Peace (more of a question :p)
Wulfbanes
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Wulfbanes, you're completely right. My bad.
And you sound like a Blood Claw who's hasn't had a fight for more than a couple of days. But I'll set your name in the quote.;)

If there's no more comments on the list I think I'll be going with with the Rhino list for 3 reasons.
1) More people preferred it.
2) In this tourney I think I'll benefit from the lesser uncertainty.
3) I just want to try out that Biker pack.

However, more comments (and warnings;) ) are still most welcome.

Based on the advice given, I've given the list several tweaks. Dropping some equipment of the HQs and the Wolf Guard I've added some lightning claws to the Wolf Guard and upgraded the Razorback with lascannons:


Wolf Lord (170)
frost blade, bp
Belt of Russ, frags, Wolf Pelt, WT Necklace
bike

Venerable Dreadnought (203)
DCCW, heavy flamer, assault cannon
extra armour, smoke
Drop pod

Rune Priest (149)
twin-LC
frags, Wolf Pelt
bike

Wolf Guard Bodyguard (237)
2. ccw, bp
1. twin-LC, Wolf Pelt
1. thunderhammer, bp, Runic Charm
all w/ bike, frags

Wolf Scout pack (76)
4. Scouts w/ meltagun, plasma pistol

Grey Hunter pack (272)
7. bolter
1. plasmagun
1. powerweapon
1. powerfist
Rhino w/ extra armour, smoke

Grey Hunter pack (272)
7. bolter
1. plasmagun
1. powerweapon
1. powerfist
Rhino w/ extra armour, smoke

Grey Hunter pack (226)
4. bolter
1. plasmagun
1. powerweapon
Razorback w/ TL-lascannon, extra armour, smoke

LS Tornado (80)
heavy bolter, assault cannon

LS Tornado (80)
heavy bolter, assault cannon

Whirlwind (85)

= 1850


Tai'shar
 

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My Two Cents

Araith said:
For an upcoming tournament I have written two lists, between I still have to choose.
The first is a drop pod heavy list, the second an army combining Rhino's and a Bike powerhouse.
Any comments are appreciated. Plz fire away.

For Russ!

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Wolf Guard Bodyguard (300)
2. lightning claw, stormbolter
1. thunderhammer, assault cannon
1. chainfist, assault cannon
Drop pod
Would also recommend only one anti-tank weapon, either chainfist or thunder hammer, give everyone else a PW or LC, depending on what you have models for. This unit will be better able to defend itself in assaults, with most attacks going at initiative 4. The lone anti-tank WG can play clean-up when necessary.

Araith said:
Venerable Dreadnought (203)
DCCW, heavy flamer, assault cannon
extra armour, smoke
Drop pod
Absolutely! The SW venerable dreadnought is awesome, allows reroll to go first, assault cannon hits on anything but a 1, and an extra attack in close combat, yes please!

Araith said:
WG Battle Leader (183)
frost blade, bp
frags, meltabombs, Wolf Pelt, WT Necklace
bike
4 Fenrisian Wolves
Go this route if you want. My preference is to take a Wolf Priest with basic load and join him to one of the 3 drop podding Grey Hunter packs.

Araith said:
Wolf Scout pack (76)
4. Scouts w/ meltagun, plasma pistol
The OBEL ability is another great SW feature, so make the most of it. I recommend a full strength (6 man) pack with two power weapons. Take meltagun if you want, but everyone else gets BP and CCW. Then attach a WGL with BP and PF. This makes one hell of a hard hitting unit, that can easily destroy heavy vehicles or other troublesome units that just happen to still be within 12" of the far table edge when they arrive. Note: Other than this guy, I wouldn't take a WGL for any other packs, they are too expensive, and you don't need them since your troops already have the ability to get PWs and/or PFs in your packs.

Araith said:
Grey Hunter pack (270)
7. bolter
1. meltagun
1. powerweapon
Wolf Guard w/ powerfist, bp, frags, Wolf Pelt, WT Necklace
Drop pod
Drop the WGL and just give a regular GH the PF. This setup will save you a lot of points, and is almost as effective. Your PW guy helps whittle down the enemy with two no-save attacks at initiative 4, and the PF guy plays clean-up at Initiative 1. I would take three packs just like this in drop pods, except maybe exchange the meltagun for a plasmagun in one or two of them, and maybe make one pack a 9 person pack and join the Wolf Priest to it, to give him a job and get him into the fight.

Araith said:
LS Tornado (80)
heavy bolter

LS Tornado (80)
heavy bolter
Oh yes, by all means, go with a pair of tornados for extra assault cannon goodness.


One other thing to consider: I like to take Ragnar and join him to a Grey Hunter pack that is armed for close combat (one BP and PF, one BP and PW, the rest BP and CCW). With his Berserk Charge special rule, the whole squad gets 4 attacks each on the charge, just like Blood Claws, but at WS 4 instead of 3. Ragnar gets 7 frost blade attacks on the charge, too, and gets a 4+ invulnerable save. This is a great unit for both offense and defense. He can be used in any army over 1,500 points and I don't believe you need your opponents permission to use special characters under 4th edition (I'm sure someone will correct me if I missed this one).


Araith said:
The main force are of course the podding troops: the Wolf Lord and his retinue, the Ven Dread and 3 packs of GHs. All can unleash fire on the turn they land. After they can both keep shooting and assault, a versatile force.
In support there are the 'Speeders, the Scouts and the WGBL on bike with his Wolves. The WGBL can either clean up smaller enemy units or pop a tank with his meltabombs and the others do whatever Scouts and 'Speeders do.;)
On the field of AT there are primarily the 'Speeders and the Scouts. Furthermore the termies and the Ven Dread also have 3 assault cannons between them, there are 2 powerfists or related weapons in each pack and finally a number of meltaguns and bombs scattered through the army.
My main concern is that I might lack some horde-control.
Based on the recommendations you have received already you should be fine with anti-tank; you'll have several assault cannon, and plenty of Power Fists on the board that will close with the enemy quickly. When you need to take a defensive stance against horde armies, just don't use the drop pods, deploy everyone in your zone, and the assault cannon, storm bolters, bolters and bolt pistols will work fine on whittling down the enemy. When they finally do hit your lines, true grit and a few hidden PWs/PFs will make a huge difference.

Many folks will prefer the rhinos, since you can use them whether you on the offense, or defense, but I prefer the drop pods. With the DP, you can almost gaurantee a safe deployment, relatively close to the enemy(within rapid fire range), and can even use the DP as cover from enemy units you need protection from when you land. Depending on the amount of terrain on the board, the rhinos might not get you where you need to go. Nothing is worse than having to bail out of a burning rhino and having a whole unit entangled (pinned) for the next turn, while they are subject to at least one turn of indiscriminate enemy fire. Also, at 30 points each, if you choose not to use them in a game, you aren't sacrificing all that much.

I hope this helped, and best of luck,

Regards,
Valerian

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Re: Advice

Araith said:
Thanks for all the feedback, keep it coming.


On the WGBL, I agree that he'd best stay away from ICs. The reasoning behind the meltabombs and the WTN was that it's a great combo. Hitting vehicles that'd normally on 6s on 3s instead with meltabombs. But I might indeed drop it.
Remember that the wolf tooth necklace is only going to help you against opponents with a weapon skill, so most vehicles won't be affected. If you are trying to use the meltabomb against a walker (like a dreadnought), then the wolf tooth necklace isn't going to help you their either, as a model will only manage to score a hit with a grenade against a walker on a roll of a 6 (BGB, pg. 72). If the walker were already stunned or immobilized at the start of the Assault phase, then you can attempt to his based upon the normal comparison of Weapon Skill, in which case the WTN would count, and you would only need a 3+.


Araith said:
Mmm, I'll get that 2nd powerfist in each pack. But I want to keep the WGBL for extra prowess in CC. Hitting on 3s really helps. It also makes this a very potent unit if facing tanks etc (tanks don't like being hit on 3s by powerfists).
Again, the WTN won't help you hit tanks. When attacking vehicles without a weapon skill in close combat you use the chart on page 71 of the rulebook. Your ability to hit will be based solely on the movement that vehicle made in the previous turn.

I'm sure this will help in your choices,

Valerian
 

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Re: Independent Characters

Aidan said:
You cant join indepent characters to podding squads

Aiden's correct. It isn't addressed in the SM codex or BGB, but on the GW forums, Pete Haines, et al, stated that IC's can't join a unit prior to the battle. If you want to pod in an IC with troops, then you have to give him a retinue. Of course, I don't really see the point of this restriction, but whatever.

Valerian
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Which is exactly the reason he's on a bike and not in a pod. Furthermore, 1 WG Bodyguard at 1.5k fills up enough points. A second would really be a drain. On a bike he functions just fine, engaging smaller and weaker units prior to the pods' arrival. Later he can always lend his power to one pack or another.

Would also recommend only one anti-tank weapon, either chainfist or thunder hammer, give everyone else a PW or LC, depending on what you have models for. This unit will be better able to defend itself in assaults, with most attacks going at initiative 4. The lone anti-tank WG can play clean-up when necessary.
I agree.

The OBEL ability is another great SW feature, so make the most of it. I recommend a full strength (6 man) pack with two power weapons. Take meltagun if you want, but everyone else gets BP and CCW. Then attach a WGL with BP and PF. This makes one hell of a hard hitting unit, that can easily destroy heavy vehicles or other troublesome units that just happen to still be within 12" of the far table edge when they arrive. Note: Other than this guy, I wouldn't take a WGL for any other packs, they are too expensive, and you don't need them since your troops already have the ability to get PWs and/or PFs in your packs.
That is certainly a viable kit, but I want this as an AT pack. Hence the melta and PP. I would have added more if I had points to spare, but basically the pack functions well with only a melta and PP.
In fact I've never come to using a larger Scout pack for the abovementioned reason...
Drop the WGL and just give a regular GH the PF. This setup will save you a lot of points, and is almost as effective. Your PW guy helps whittle down the enemy with two no-save attacks at initiative 4, and the PF guy plays clean-up at Initiative 1. I would take three packs just like this in drop pods, except maybe exchange the meltagun for a plasmagun in one or two of them, and maybe make one pack a 9 person pack and join the Wolf Priest to it, to give him a job and get him into the fight.
They have a meltagun 'cause the packs are meant for assault. Plus I'm prolly able to pod within range anyway, giving a barrage of bolters and a melta shot on arrival.
Dropping the WG would indeed save points, but people underestimate the worth of the extra attack and hitting on 3s. This guy always have 4 powerfist attacks hitting on 3s. And as hte packs are meant for assault I value it highly.

One other thing to consider: I like to take Ragnar and join him to a Grey Hunter pack that is armed for close combat (one BP and PF, one BP and PW, the rest BP and CCW). With his Berserk Charge special rule, the whole squad gets 4 attacks each on the charge, just like Blood Claws, but at WS 4 instead of 3. Ragnar gets 7 frost blade attacks on the charge, too, and gets a 4+ invulnerable save. This is a great unit for both offense and defense. He can be used in any army over 1,500 points and I don't believe you need your opponents permission to use special characters under 4th edition (I'm sure someone will correct me if I missed this one).
I like the idea. I'll keep it in mind.

And I agree with you on drop pods, they are great. But I still think I'll go for rhino's in this tourney.


Tai'shar
 

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Response

Araith said:
That is certainly a viable kit, but I want this as an AT pack. Hence the melta and PP. I would have added more if I had points to spare, but basically the pack functions well with only a melta and PP.
In fact I've never come to using a larger Scout pack for the abovementioned reason...
That is fine, if that is how you want to play them. There certainly isn't any problem with giving either the melta and PP, you can always include that in addition to my recommendations, but once they pop a vehicle, the small, 4 person squad with no close combat weapons that you propose won't last long. By maxing out their numbers, giving one or two a power weapon, and adding a WGL with a power fist, you will have a powerful, but cheap unit that is great at destroying tanks (four PF attacks on the charge), and great at killing troops. Thus you will gain versatility/flexibility in the unit, rather than taking a 'one-trick' pony.

Araith said:
They have a meltagun 'cause the packs are meant for assault. Plus I'm prolly able to pod within range anyway, giving a barrage of bolters and a melta shot on arrival.
No, I agree with you here, I'm just saying that you should consider the plasma gun for one of your GH packs. The plasmagun is only 1 strength lower than the melta gun when operating between 6" and 12", but gets twice as many shots/chances to penetrate. The plasmagun can range out to 24" when you stand still, and the meltagun won't. I'm not saying don't take any meltaguns, just consider throwing a plasmagun in the mix.

Araith said:
Dropping the WG would indeed save points, but people underestimate the worth of the extra attack and hitting on 3s. This guy always have 4 powerfist attacks hitting on 3s. And as hte packs are meant for assault I value it highly.
I understand how tough these guys can be, but I'm trying to help you maximize your value here. For the points you have to pay to get three of these souped up WGLs (one for each of your 3 GH packs), you could get a whole additional GH pack, with yet another PW and PF.

If you are using these guys in a tournament you want to get the most versatility and flexibility out of your list. IMHO you want to distibute your combat power throughout the force, not concentrate it into a few, more powerful, individual models. You've already got a few "tooled up" figures in your mandatory HQ, I really don't think you'll need an expensive combat beast in every squad. You also want your guys to have a chance of success regardless of what they come up against.

Anyway, it's just advice. Take what you think will help. Either way, please let us know what you decide to go with, and how it turns out when the tournament is over,

Best of luck,
Valerian
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
That is fine, if that is how you want to play them. There certainly isn't any problem with giving either the melta and PP, you can always include that in addition to my recommendations, but once they pop a vehicle, the small, 4 person squad with no close combat weapons that you propose won't last long. By maxing out their numbers, giving one or two a power weapon, and adding a WGL with a power fist, you will have a powerful, but cheap unit that is great at destroying tanks (four PF attacks on the charge), and great at killing troops. Thus you will gain versatility/flexibility in the unit, rather than taking a 'one-trick' pony.
They would make a great unit, I don't deny. But it's a question of priorities. And with a melta and PP only this is still a one-trick pony that will take out at least 1 tank that costs much more than the unit itself.
If I'm lucky I can take out multiple vehicles or I could vie to tie up another unit in CC. The Scouts might not win, but at least tie them up.

No, I agree with you here, I'm just saying that you should consider the plasma gun for one of your GH packs. The plasmagun is only 1 strength lower than the melta gun when operating between 6" and 12", but gets twice as many shots/chances to penetrate. The plasmagun can range out to 24" when you stand still, and the meltagun won't. I'm not saying don't take any meltaguns, just consider throwing a plasmagun in the mix.
Well, I could consider it yes. But as it stands now I still want go for the Rhino list, seeing how this tourney goes.

I understand how tough these guys can be, but I'm trying to help you maximize your value here. For the points you have to pay to get three of these souped up WGLs (one for each of your 3 GH packs), you could get a whole additional GH pack, with yet another PW and PF.
The most it would do is freeing up 84 pts. For I would fill up with a 10th GH with a fist.

What could I do for those points? I have the possibility of a Whirlwind (other tanks are dead meat in this list) which would still be risky, there's still a FA slot open for another 'Speeder and I could expand the Wolf Scouts. It's certainly worth considering.
But I'll leave that to another time, when I do use this list.

Anyway, as becomes clear from this post I still dwell on the Rhino list for this tourney. And I will get back to this topic once it is over.
Thanks for the advice. ;)


Tai'shar
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm glad the tourney will only start in a month (yeah, for once I don't do everything last minute :rolleyes: ) for I got a new idea earlier this month. Here goes


HQ

Wolf Lord (194)
frost blade, bp
Belt of Russ, frags, Wolf Pelt, WT Necklace
bike
2. Fenrisian Wolves

Rune Priest (140)
frost blade, bp
frags, Wolf Pelt
bike

Ven Dread (203)
DCCW, heavy flamer, assault cannon
extra armour, smoke
Drop pod

Elites

Wolf Scout pack (76)
4. Scouts w/ meltagun, plasma pistol

Troops

Grey Hunter pack (244)
7. bolter
1. plasmagun
1. powerweapon
1. powerfist
Drop pod

Grey Hunter pack (244)
7. bolter
1. plasmagun
1. powerweapon
1. powerfist
Drop pod

FA

Blood Claw bike pack (212)
3. bp
1. meltagun
2. powerfist

Blood Claw bike pack (212)
3. bp
1. meltagun
2. powerfist

3. LS Tornado (240)
heavy bolter, assault cannon

HS

Whirlwind (85)

= 1850

The Wolf Lord and the Rune Priest would each team up with a Bike pack and move up the flanks using cover and Boost while the Whirlwind and maybe the 'Speeders give supporting fire.
By the time the bikers run out of steam the GHs, the Scouts and the Ven Dread are supposed to drop in to support them.
I've chosen the Rune Priest to provide cover for the 'lone' biker packs when they need it and the Wolf Lord to be able to get toe to toe with the most dangerous of foes.

What do you think?


Tai'shar
 
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