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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can you look at this list? I just made it, maybe you can corect it or fix mistakes?
Thank you

UNSEENS

Chapters:
PIOUS : Purity above all
COURAGEUS : Trust your battle friend
MAJOR D.: Eye to eye
MINOR D.: Have faith in suspicion

HQ
Master commander 141pt
(iron halo,chapter banner,bolter,power weapon)
Chaplain 122pt
(artificier armor,cc weapon,frag granades)
ELITES
9 Veteran squad 268pt
(apothecary,frag granades,furious charge,power weapon,lighting claws,counter attack,true grit)
Dreadnought 163pt
(extra armor,smoke launchers,tank hunter,lascannon,venerable)
5 Terminator squad 272pt
(assault cannon,cyclone missile launcher,chainfists,auspex)
TROOPS
8 Scout squad 272pt
(sniper rifle)
9 Tactical squad 212pt
(apothecary,meltagun,lascanon,counter attack,true grit)
FAST
3 Land speeder Tornado 240pt
(heavy bolter,assault cannon)
HEAVY
Predator annihilator 153pt
(sponsons lascannons,extra armor,smoke launchers)
Predator destructor 128pt
(sponsons heavy bolters,extra armor,smoke launchers,pintle missile)
 

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I would change a lot of it. First of all, apothecaries in tactical squads, or anywhere for that matter, are a waste of points.

Master commander 141pt
(iron halo,chapter banner,bolter,power weapon)

Chaplain 122pt
(artificier armor,cc weapon,frag granades)
Neither of these has much of a purpose in your army. I would read the SM HQ article in the SM articles section, and try to pick something from there.

9 Veteran squad 268pt
(apothecary,frag granades,furious charge,power weapon,lighting claws,counter attack,true grit)
Drop apothecary to a veteran sergeant w/ powerfist, replace lightning claws with a powerfist, replace power weapon with meltagun, furious charge instead of true grit /counter attack. A drop pod would make them better.

Dreadnought 163pt
(extra armor,smoke launchers,tank hunter,lascannon,venerable)
Throw in the missile launcher.

5 Terminator squad 272pt
(assault cannon,cyclone missile launcher,chainfists,auspex)
Drop auspex, replace cyclone w/ assault cannon (try to avoid mixing ranges), and give them a drop pod to get their weapons in range and to get them close enough to assault.

9 Tactical squad 212pt
(apothecary,meltagun,lascanon,counter attack,true grit)
Again, apothecaries are points sinkers. I would stick with a 5 man squad with a lascannon.

Predator annihilator 153pt
(sponsons lascannons,extra armor,smoke launchers)
Predator destructor 128pt
(sponsons heavy bolters,extra armor,smoke launchers,pintle missile)
I would make them all Annihilators with heavy bolter sponsons. Then they can all move and shoot all weapons.
 

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I definatly agree with Ezeikel, make you HQ serve a purpose, take the Assault Cannons for the termies( IMO way better than Missle launcher, and get rid of the Apothocaries
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Why Apothecaries are so bad?
I thought what an extra chances to be not killed are worth 25pt instead of one extra attack.
A chaplain will go with veterans and Grand master to tactical squad.
A veteran squad can have all three special things : furious attack,true grit and counter attack. True grit+counter attack they get from chapter an extra 3pt per model, furious charge because they are veterans.
I do not like to have drop pods, because this is shooty army, i will wait for enemy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Maybe you can help me with two HQ?
I need one Chaplain for CC defence or assault, doesnt mater, but not very expensive.
One Master for tactical or terminator squad , not expensive too.
Please
Thank you
 

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Saulius said:
Maybe you can help me with two HQ?
I need one Chaplain for CC defence or assault, doesnt mater, but not very expensive.
One Master for tactical or terminator squad , not expensive too.
Please
Thank you

If your going to be a sit back and shoot army, then 2 HQ's are a waste of pts, because they waste their close combat ability, which by far out does there ability to shoot. So, i would drop the Master, because he has no real squad to advance with him and assault, except, for the veterens if thats where you want him, but even they don't have a chance of getting to the enemy by walking with the Master, because then they lose(or cannot use) their infiltration.

So, here is what I would do, drop the Master, Apothocaries, and the veteren squad. I would replace the veteren squad with and assault squad, give the Chappie a jump pack, and put him with the assault marines. If you wanted to make this squad even more nasty, you would take plasma pistols, a veteren sargent with a power fist, and drop the trait which allows you apothocaries in tactical squads, and take the trait: No Mercy, No Respite and give you Assault Marines Furious Charge:sleep:

Ok, that may seem a little much for change, but its one way to use you HQ effectively, and get a squad much better than Veterens.:hmm:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you, but maybe you can explain me with sample about apothecary, why you think that it is points sink, please?
Can assault squad with jump packs do any good damage to Tyranids?
What is better : 5 terminators or 10 veterans, CC?
 

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Saulius said:
Thank you, but maybe you can explain me with sample about apothecary, why you think that it is points sink, please?
Can assault squad with jump packs do any good damage to Tyranids?
What is better : 5 terminators or 10 veterans, CC?

ok, #1 The problem with the Apothocary, is that you pay 15 pts for the marine, 15pts for the Veteren sargent upgrade, and 25 pts for the Apothocary equipment. that is 55pts for one model, who can't do a heck of a lot, and it takes up one of your traits:(

#2 The assault squad can waste tyrnid guants, and smaller creatures, but against genestealers, they would probable get wasted, as would probably happen, with there big Bugs, so they would probably be a waste against tyrnids, but they would do better than the veteren squad would.

#3 If you upgraded the Veteren squad a lot, if you out do the termies, because they have claws, and power weapons, but it would be close because of the termies armour and fists. But that is against regular termies, definately not assault termies, and i would rather have a squad of 5 termies with 2 assault cannons way more than a veteren squad:sleep:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I just made it, maybe you can corect it or fix mistakes?
Thank you

Chapters:
COURAGEUS : Trust your battle friend
MINOR D.: Have faith in suspicion

HQ
Inquisitor Lord 221pt
(psycannon,2 acolytes,2 sages,2 mystics,3 warriors,2 HB,1 plasma cannon)
Chaplain 128pt
(terminator armor,power weapon,storm bolter)
ELITES
Dreadnought 178pt
(extra armor,smoke launchers,tank hunter,lascannon,venerable,missile launcher)
5 Terminator squad 285pt
(2assault cannon,3chainfists)
TROOPS
10 Tactical squad 190pt
(veteran,power fist,bolter,meltagun)
10 Tactical squad 190pt
(veteran,power fist,bolter,meltagun)
FAST
3X1 Land speeder Tornado 240pt
(heavy bolter,assault cannon)
HEAVY
Predator annihilator 153pt
(sponsons lascannons,extra armor,smoke launchers)
Predator annihilator 153pt
(sponsons lascannons,extra armor,smoke launchers)
 

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OK, the chappy looks decent, but why the heck did you put an inquisitor in? THey are just glorified space marines. Take him out, and get yourself some more firepower! YOu said this was a sooty army, yet I see over 300 points of wasted shooting potential on your tactical squads. You should either give them drop pods, so that they don't have to walk across the field to use their melta and powerfist, or, you should break them into 4 five man squads, with a las cannon per squad. The first would give you substantial CC power, and the second would give you incredible shooting power.
The dreadnough and termies look good, except you may want to consider dropping the chainfists, as they won't do much good if you are shooting. or, you could again deep strike them.

The tanks and speeders look fine, but there is something you must understand about the tanks:

You can't move them, without sacrificing your two sponson guns firing turn. So, either they will have to deploy behind cover and move out your first turn, or you can deploy them out your first turn. ONe option will give you more fire, but less survivability, and the other is the oposite. Your choice. Alot of people say that you should mix the tank up, with heavy bolter sponsons and a lascannon top gun, but that is just stupid. WHy would you ever want to shoot a heavy bolter at a tank? Anything that you would really shoot with a TL lascannon is going to have atleast 12 armor, and heavy bolters can't even shoot through that. Also, if you were going to use it against infantry, why would you waster a TL lascanon shot at a bunch of infantry? YOu could have gotten an LST or two for the price of the tank, and that would be better at shooting infantry than the tank.

So: the only good forms of the predator, are the TL lascanon annihilator, with lascannon sponsons, and the autocannon predator destructor with heavy bolter sponsons. Your choice. I go with the destructor personally, but that is because I already have 4 lascannons in my army.

remmeber this: YOur army you said should be shoot, therefore, anything closecombat oriented is going to take away fromt eh shooty destructive power of your force. You should try to centralize the power to shooty, or to close combat, unless you want a really challenging game, and then you can play a mix, like a lot of people around here like to.
 

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I think your shooty list is not shooty any more. I'ld make a few changes...

Saulius said:
HQ
Inquisitor Lord 221pt
(psycannon,2 acolytes,2 sages,2 mystics,3 warriors,2 HB,1 plasma cannon)
Chaplain 128pt
(terminator armor,power weapon,storm bolter)
Shooty armies will benefit from the leadership a Master provides. Get rid of the Inquisitor! Take a Master with a combiplasma and power weapon. He won't need an invulnerable save if he sits back with a tactical squad and fires away, so no iron halo. IMO, and everyone elses opinion, a shooty list doesn't need 2 HQ's, but since it looks like you really really want two, the Chaplain is good I guess. The termis should be a command squad with the Chaplain since they can deep strike together. Why all the chainfists??? Loose at least 3, that's an exta marine. If you want to be shooty, the more bodies, the better!

Saulius said:
TROOPS
10 Tactical squad 190pt
(veteran,power fist,bolter,meltagun)
10 Tactical squad 190pt
(veteran,power fist,bolter,meltagun)
This is not shooty at all. For one, you don't need the vet. sgts, your Master will provide leadership. And of all the special weapons to take, you chose meltagun...? Plasma guns are what you need. Add a heavy weapon also. It's good to make tactical squads similar so I would take either 2 HB's or 2 missiles. Perhaps make 1 10 man unit and 2 6 man units with lascannons and plasma guns.

Everything else looks good. Your tanks and dred are really designed for armour, so I'ld use the tornados and tactical squads to hit infintry, same goes for the terminators.

good luck, hope that helped
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Remastered

Chapters:
COURAGEUS : Trust your battle friend
MINOR D.: Have faith in suspicion

HQ
Inquisitor Lord 221pt
(psycannon,2 acolytes,2 sages,2 mystics,3 warriors,2 HB,1 plasma cannon)
Chaplain 130pt
(terminator armor,power weapon,storm bolter)
ELITES
Dreadnought 173pt
(extra armor,smoke launchers,tank hunter,lascannon,venerable,missile launcher)
7 Terminator command squad 341pt
(2assault cannon,furious charge)
TROOPS
5 Tactical squad 100pt
(lascannon,meltagun)
5 Tactical squad 100pt
(lascannon,meltagun)
FAST
3X1 Land speeder Tornado 240pt
(heavy bolter,assault cannon)
HEAVY
Predator annihilator 153pt
(sponsons lascannons,extra armor,smoke launchers)
Predator annihilator 153pt
(sponsons lascannons,extra armor,smoke launchers)
Predator destructor 128pt
(sponsons HB,extra armor,smoke launchers,pintle storm bolter)

I think that the inquisitor and his retinue have one of the best fire power in the game(maybe im wrong, i never trayed this), as well i like to use the ASSASINS. Without them im feel some individuality shortage. And the assasin have some good tactical tricks, like move one enemy unit 6" before battle and come down in wherever i want.
 

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7 vehicles, a big terminator unit, a weird HQ and 10 marines....ok then
 

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Saulius said:
I just made it, maybe you can corect it or fix mistakes?
Thank you

Chapters:
COURAGEUS : Trust your battle friend
MINOR D.: Have faith in suspicion

HQ
Inquisitor Lord 221pt
(psycannon,2 acolytes,2 sages,2 mystics,3 warriors,2 HB,1 plasma cannon)
Chaplain 128pt
(terminator armor,power weapon,storm bolter)
ELITES
Dreadnought 178pt
(extra armor,smoke launchers,tank hunter,lascannon,venerable,missile launcher)
5 Terminator squad 285pt
(2assault cannon,3chainfists)
TROOPS
10 Tactical squad 190pt
(veteran,power fist,bolter,meltagun)
10 Tactical squad 190pt
(veteran,power fist,bolter,meltagun)
FAST
3X1 Land speeder Tornado 240pt
(heavy bolter,assault cannon)
HEAVY
Predator annihilator 153pt
(sponsons lascannons,extra armor,smoke launchers)
Predator annihilator 153pt
(sponsons lascannons,extra armor,smoke launchers)

Actually, I like this list with the 2 Lascannon preds, and the speeders. The things are, that your two tac squads have no way of geting up the battle feild in time to do some damage, thats if they are wiped out before they make it. So i would give them a droppod, or a rino.

Also, why do you have the Inquisitor squad? In you army, it seems like a big mis-fit. I would replace this squad with an assault squad for the chappie, and if that is not enough points for the assault squad, then get rid of the venerability on the dreas:sleep:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
I think, that 70% of all armies are CC oriented, then i dont need to move a lot. Shooty marines will have the same problem as me, then i do not see problem. Question is about TAU and IG, thats why i need Landspeeders, assasin and 7 terminators.
Where im wrong?

Which troop unit have more fire power than my inquisitor unit?
2 Heavy bolters
1 Plasma cannon
1 Psycannon
BS 4 and 5 for inquisitor
Range 36" and 9 shots from 4 to 2 AP, extra shoot to incoming infiltraitors for unit nearby.
And just 221pt for all this 10 models goodies
 

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Saulius said:
HQ
Inquisitor Lord 221pt
(psycannon,2 acolytes,2 sages,2 mystics,3 warriors,2 HB,1 plasma cannon)
Stick to 1 HQ, don't go with the DH HQ

Saulius said:
Chaplain 130pt
(terminator armor,power weapon,storm bolter)
chappy has a crozius, so no power weapon is needed

Saulius said:
ELITES
Dreadnought 173pt
(extra armor,smoke launchers,tank hunter,lascannon,venerable,missile launcher)
Venerable on a hellfire dreadnought is overkill, and a big point sink in your army, drop venerable

Saulius said:
7 Terminator command squad 341pt
(2assault cannon,furious charge)
drop 3 terminators and convert them to a terminator command HQ, and don't use furious charge, they have power fists and that skill won't help a bit, also go for 1x chainfist, just +5 points. Now they count as 1 unit and can be deployed together, by using homer or drop pod or LR(C)

Saulius said:
TROOPS
5 Tactical squad 100pt
(lascannon,meltagun)
5 Tactical squad 100pt
(lascannon,meltagun)
Your core is very very weak
A meltagun and 5 men.. this will go so wrong, make them 3x 8 men strong, exchange meltagun with plasma gun. Upgrade each squad one of them to veteran serg and give him a power fist. If you want to field an anti tank squad, take 1 rhino and put 5 marines in it with 1 melta gun. I personally go for a 8 men devastator squad with 4x ML + tank hunters, for some anti-tank hunting

Saulius said:
FAST
3X1 Land speeder Tornado 240pt
(heavy bolter,assault cannon)
3 squads of 1, Good

Saulius said:
HEAVY
Predator annihilator 153pt
(sponsons lascannons,extra armor,smoke launchers)
Predator annihilator 153pt
(sponsons lascannons,extra armor,smoke launchers)
Predator destructor 128pt
(sponsons HB,extra armor,smoke launchers,pintle storm bolter)
Only go for these 2 options if you want to field those:

Annih with 2x HB sponsons
Destr with 2x HB sponsons

With lc sponsons you won't have a chance to move and shoot all of them, waste of points. HB are much better overall. I personally recommend you to use devastator squads.

Saulius said:
I think that the inquisitor and his retinue have one of the best fire power in the game(maybe im wrong, i never trayed this), as well i like to use the ASSASINS. Without them im feel some individuality shortage. And the assasin have some good tactical tricks, like move one enemy unit 6" before battle and come down in wherever i want.
Best fire power, maybe, devastators also have good fire power, but =][= + retinue has an effective range of 36", they can't walk and shoot. There overall save is low (4+) and they are not that cheap. Next, assassins won't do much. They all depend on some dices. Callidus is the best one in most occasions. But not in big battles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
>Venerable on a hellfire dreadnought is overkill, and a big point sink in your army, drop venerable<
How this overkill works?

> Terminators - Now they count as 1 unit and can be deployed together, by using homer or drop pod or LR(C)<
I can deploy from 4 to 9, why i must decrease they size? 7 is wery hard power to destroy. I do not using a drop pods, because i think, that most my enemies will be CC oriented, i will wait for them and what left after my artilery, gona be meet a terminators.


>Your core is very very weak<
I think that 3 land riders tornados can eliminate tons of core troops, because of their speed.
I dont like to use week troop units to do a big good units job because i will loose 30-60% of troops. But a big son of a bitc can do the job beter and without casualties.

>I personally go for a 8 men devastator squad with 4x ML + tank hunters, for some anti-tank hunting<
8 Devastator squad cost as 2 annihilators and they can be easily destroyed by assasin or one or two good shots from right weapon.


>With lc sponsons you won't have a chance to move and shoot all of them, waste of points. HB are much better overall. I personally recommend you to use devastator squads.<
This depend from playing style.
 

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Saulius said:
>Venerable on a hellfire dreadnought is overkill, and a big point sink in your army, drop venerable<
How this overkill works?
Mostly your hellfire dreadnought stays at long range. If you let your dreadnought get hit, you just used your dreadnought wrongly. Venerable is a defensive upgrade and if you play well, your dreadnought won't get hit. So why the extra 20 points? 20 points = 1 extra marine + 5 points extra.


Saulius said:
> Terminators - Now they count as 1 unit and can be deployed together, by using homer or drop pod or LR(C)<
I can deploy from 4 to 9, why i must decrease they size? 7 is wery hard power to destroy. I do not using a drop pods, because i think, that most my enemies will be CC oriented, i will wait for them and what left after my artilery, gona be meet a terminators.
Terminators are a big point sink for what you get. The only reason I use them is, the ac and a steady hammer to punch through a defensive position. 3 terminators costs 120 points. 120 points = 8 marines. And i'm sure, 8 marines will win against 3 terminators.

Saulius said:
>Your core is very very weak<
I think that 3 land riders tornados can eliminate tons of core troops, because of their speed.
I dont like to use week troop units to do a big good units job because i will loose 30-60% of troops. But a big son of a bitc can do the job beter and without casualties.
I recommend you to read the already written tactics on this forum. The basic rule to maintain a certain win at battles is to use a steady core within your army.

You say: 3x LST = good core?

1 turn of fire against your LST's, and your core is gone. 3 LST's are too easy to take down.
1 turn of fire against a good core. Just minor damage (to SM's)
The key is: numbers.

Saulius said:
>I personally go for a 8 men devastator squad with 4x ML + tank hunters, for some anti-tank hunting<
8 Devastator squad cost as 2 annihilators and they can be easily destroyed by assasin or one or two good shots from right weapon.
Annih's will be destroyed even faster then a devastator squad, just try it.

Easy destroyed by an assassin??

- Dev's have more fire power and more toughness then 2 tiny tanks.

- dev: 4 str 10 hits against armour, 8 men
- 2x annih: 6 str 9 hits, 2 armour

The key is: numbers.


Saulius said:
>With lc sponsons you won't have a chance to move and shoot all of them, waste of points. HB are much better overall. I personally recommend you to use devastator squads.<
This depend from playing style.
By reading this, you use your tanks stationary. Quite funny, cuz that gives the other the opportunity to auto-hit your tank with a meltabomb or something else after 1 turn of deep striking or whatever. Unless you're planning on playing on a tiny board...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
> And i'm sure, 8 marines will win against 3 terminators.<
I do not see any chances for marines to do something to terminators. 8 marines cant get into cc all, maybe 6 of them, this max 6 attacks vs 6 attacks with power weapon?

>The basic rule to maintain a certain win at battles is to use a steady core within your army.<
Maybe. Who wining with horde of poor armored meat?

>You say: 3x LST = good core?<
I think, that 3 LST can handle with slow troops wery easy.

>1 turn of fire against your LST's, and your core is gone. 3 LST's are too easy to take down.<
At firs the troops must to attack to do something, but i do not see there any chances to do so for them, only lascannon in second turn.
>1 turn of fire against a good core. Just minor damage (to SM's)<
With right blast weapons nothing left.

>The key is: numbers.<
In my games the right strategy and good units is the key.

>Annih's will be destroyed even faster then a devastator squad, just try it. <
I will

>- Dev's have more fire power and more toughness then 2 tiny tanks.<
I dont think so.

- dev: 4 str 10 hits against armour, 8 men
- 2x annih: 6 str 9 hits, 2 armour
First shot always from annihilators, and bad general if he will let annihilators to do the assasins job.
 
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