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Discussion Starter #1
Hello

I've played vampire counts for a long time now, but never competitively but me and my friends want to start getting on the competitive circuit so this is my list on what I think would be a good list, if you could give me some feedback on what you think, point out any glaring weaknesses, anything I should take note of any tips on the competitive scene be brutal and constructive

List is as follows
Master Necromancer: Talisman of Preservation; Dispel Scroll; Level 4 Wizard

Vampire: Sword of Swift Slaying; Talisman of Protection; Enchanted Shield; Red Fury; heavy armour

47 Zombies: standard bearer
48 Zombies: standard bearer
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
19 Crypt Ghouls

8 Crypt Horrors
3 Vargheists
29 Grave Guard: Banner of the Barrows; great weapons; Seneschal; musician; standard bearer

Terrorgheist
Terrorgheist

2,399 points

Master necro is go in with the crypt ghouls, while the vampire accompanies the grave guard, I'll use the zombies will be my tarpits holding big units up while terrorghiest scream them down, crypt horrors and varghiest will travel together acting as hammer and anvil, while dogs will redirect and war machine hunt

Thanks for taking the time to read my post looking forward to hearing back from you

Scott
 

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It's different than most super-competative builds I've ever fought against.

Most tote a 400-ish lord with all the blender skills (red fury, asf, magic weapon) along with a fear-bomb vampire and level 4 necro in a unit of black knights along with the absolute minimum core.
The two 'gheists you bring are indeed usually there too. These battles are usually short lived and non-fun. (either the opponent kills the blender lord before it reaches his main unit or he looses)

Actually the list you bring is something I'm realy curious how it would perform. dual gheists can take out any monster, and you have some units that can deal out some damage. I'm afraid those units (crypt horrors and grave guard) will be on the small size if you are facing something melee heavy like warriors of Chaos or saurus-heavy lizardmen. Against those armies you might want to include some more ethereal dudes (2 base of spirit hosts do the trick), these do wonders against a unit of warriors or saurus.

greetings,

Vince
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply was helpful as I've never been to tournament before I wasn't sure what the best. Stuff to take or what the most competative list were I have since revised that list since I last posted to this

Master Necromancer: Talisman of Preservation; Level 4 Wizard

Vampire: Sword of Swift Slaying; Talisman of Protection; Enchanted Shield; Red Fury; heavy armour

48 Zombies: standard bearer
48 Zombies: standard bearer
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
26 Skeleton Warriors: The Screaming Banner; Skeleton Champion; musician; standard bearer

6 Crypt Horrors
3 Vargheists
3 Vargheists
8 Crypt Horrors
1 Spirit Host
1 Spirit Host

Terrorgheist
Terrorgheist

2,400 points

But again going from what u were saying , I feel that I don't have enought characters is this a safe assumption, because I'm really keen to get n tournament scene but like most people I don't mind losing to a superior list I just don't want to get massacred every time
 

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Hi there ok to start you don't need your zombies that big raise them up 2d6 +4 per cast get a level 2 necro for double raise I often roll with 4 zombie blocks if needed then raise them to 40-50 in a turn or 2 your special is a bit all over varghiest die don't bother with them crypt horrors are good I often take 2 blocks 8 and a massive block of great weapon grave guard lead by a vampire bsb additional hand weapon armour of silver steel forbidden lore for level 1 beast then a level 4 and 2 necro then zombie dog core I tend not to take terrors purely because they don't normally make it past turn 2 but duo could work if you use them as a team. Remember with crypt horrors you give them 1 wound plus wizard level so keep level 4 near by.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ok cool so when u say four zombies blocks is that minimum number so 4 blocks of 20 and it seem I need to think about characters thanks for the help if u have any other tips let me know I am struggling fighting chaos
 

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I would say 4 blocks of 30 with standards so they aren't killed in a round of shooting with a level 4 and 2 you should double invocation and raise 4d6 plus 6 that's 10 at least even if you roll 4 1s lol. Have your vamp lead gg In the middle of your line then 2 zombie units either side To keep close to necros behind gg then a unit of crypt horrors on either end of the line a big unit of gg with great weapons should smash most things. And crypt horrors should do the job. What problem you having against warriors you should be out numbing units and men?

I would also argue against spirit hosts you will loose them to combat res they will just melt away unless your thinking of taking 20 hex wraiths for the ranks and even then to many spells and banners give magical attacks now.
 

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Ok that sounds like something I should look into would a block of 40 grave guard be enough. Mostly the problem I have with chaos is nurgle demon princes and chimeras and skull crusher so pretty much there heavy hitters also where is the best place to put the necromancers are they going in the zombie unit's

Should I stay away from the bk bus or should I use it and what does it entail
 

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Yeah 35 to 40 I tend to go 34 plus a character which is 7x5 formation and banner of borrows for the +1 to hit and great weapons to hit hard. Ok with the vamp with forbidden take metal and searing doom and watch those 1+ saves be pointless as for chimera they should be easy to beat.
 

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Bus formation unless you want to have more than 60 in a unit; in that case deployment space will force you to go horde.

@ pp; a bsb doesn;t usually fit in my point allowance. The 140+ points for a wight king bsb (why ever take a vampire?) is better spent on 12 additonal grave guard if you want protection against crumbling. As the bsb only ever removes one point of crumbling; I never find it worthwile.

the same goes for raising zombies. Most players take smallish units of zombies (20 or so) and count on raising to increase the regiment size. I'd vouch against that as I want my lvel 4 mage casting battle spells (Vanhells, Curse, gaze, etc) from turn 1 onwards and resorting to raising undead only when a point in my battle line runs the risk of being destroyed

I know some players take a 2nd necromancer just for te purpose of raising undead. A quick calculation estimates that a necromancer has to summon at least 30 zombies or 20 skeletons to earn his points back. This does not even take into account the fact that power dice are a limited resource and usually better used elsewhere.

Short summary: I'd never spend more than 25% of my total points on core, but spend these points not counting on any raised undead. This means just a couple of sizeable core units.
 

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No never spend more that 25% on core though i don't know why you would use battle spells before the line meets keep your gen withing 12" and you can march so dont need to force the line to close. you need those numbers before the line meets.

The vamp for me is for forbidden lore as that is usually handy as lore beast base spell helps my crypt horrows. I am never fussed by a bsb and yeah extra grave guard is better.

Its worth mentioning the lore of undeath at this point if you take a second necro easier to raze new units zombies and others. Also if you hit 4 units with one cast of IoN you will easierly rasise 30 zombies. The roll of the zombie is simple tar pit so your harder units can mash the flanks.
 

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Forbidden lore is good; but requires a caster vampire.

If you field a vampire lord, he's your general and therefore has to use lore of Vampires. This means that, in order to use forbidden lore, you have to field a lesser vampire. If you opt to go level 2 on this vampire and the forbidde lore, the character easily costs 200 points.

Though good, I usually opt for a 2nd terrorgheist over the forbidden lore vampire.

As for the raising of zombies: a level 2 raises 2d6+4; on average 9 or 27 points worth of zombies per targeted unit. This means that you have to have at least 2 succesful casts of IoN to equal the point investment. Usually a 3rd caster (vampire lord, level 4 and additional necro) doesn't get 2 casts off. Do you have any different experiences?
 

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Considering it targets all units in an area and you will by average raise 9 per unit I get it so it gets 4 units and I am looking at close to 120 pts worth of zombies in a single turn. I tend not to take a lord level vamp till about 2.5k pts where is viable to have him and a level 4 necro. Otherwise I maximise numbers often 2 blocks of gw gg 2 blocks of 6 crypt horrors 4 zombie blocks and wolves or skeletons and wolves I prefer skeletons but I can't spam enlarging them so have to start as bigger units.

I find forbidden lore very useful if I am facing army heavy stuff searing doom or wild form it helps alot I have used him to kill 3 juganughts in one magic phase
 
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