[Zviper]

1. Can a player use a hunter-killer missile to attack the rear armor of a tank?

ie. My hammerhead has 13 front armor but only 10 rear, when the player with the HK missile attacks can he say the missile went around the tank and hit the back?, or does it work like a tau seeker missile, where you draw a line to the target and that's the side that gets hit?.

2. If you have a unit with one save and a character in the unit with a better save, can the player take all the attacks on the better one?

ie. I played against a Dark Eldar player who had one guy (the HQ I think) with a shadow field (2+ inv save, goes away after failing once) with a squad of Wyches I think, and when I attacked him he took all the attacks on the guy with the 2+ inv save, is that legal?


Thanks for the help

 

[WolfRaider]

1. No. The HK attacks the side facing the attacker. If you get any arguement about it, ask him to show you the special rule that allows the HK to attack the rear, there isn't any. It is treated as a normal attack. I've had some people try the "it flys in the air and comes down on top/rear" logic arguement.

2. No. The hits must be spread equally through the unit. At the point that it makes a difference which model is hit (armor, toughness, etc) the attacks must be allocated. In this case, since armor saves are different, the successful hits must be spread equally among viable targets before additional hits may be placed against the same model.

So in a unit with the lord (Sv2+) and four Incubi, you'd give one hit to the lord, four to the incubi, one to the lord, four to the incubi, etc. Since the incubi are all the same, you'd do armor saves and wounds as a group, and take off whichever the defender wants. The lord's armor saves have to be rolling separately, especially since his save will change as soon as one fails, and the field is lost.

 

[Unit04]

What about the "Majority Rules" armor save? Isn't there a rule that states that you have to use the armor save of the most models in the unit (and take any wounds from those first)?


....or is that one of those rules that GW contradicts with their other rules?

 

[BorninDarkness]

Yes, you have to take armour saves or to wound rolls on the majority in a unit.

 

[WolfRaider]

On HK missiles: Don't forget they are DIRECT FIRE so must have line of sight to their target, and hit the side facing the attacker.

Mixed armor depends on what rules you look at. In 3rd ed, the BBB rules state only that you have to allocate attacks, hits, or wounds at the point it makes a difference. (WS, Toughness, Armor) Its followed with "...may only allocate one hit against each model until all the models in the unit have taken one hit each."

The only place 3rd ed talks about mixed armor is in the specific rules for armies that are likely to have mixed units, ie. Space Wolves, Black Templar. In those you MUST use the save of the majority, and take all wounds from the majority first.

Using that rule, the Archon (or other lord with the 2+ field) could either never be hit until all the retinue were killed, or depending on your interpretation of the wording, be killed without getting his save at all. The wording says use the majority save and take casualties from them FIRST. Nothing about not taking wounds on the higher armor save guys. That means if you have 4 Incubi (Sv3+) and one Archon (Sv2+) hit with five AP3 hits, you would roll to wound five troops, with no armor save for the Archon. Both options are clearly unacceptable to the DE player and don't take in count the invulnerable save of the Archon. It would make any retinue cancell out the value of the 2+ field. And I don't think they meant for the Archon (or other IC with a inv. save in a unit) to be immune to weapon fire until the entire retinue was killed.

Imagine if the retinue was reduced to 2, 4+ save guys, and one 2++ save guy. They get hit with a battery of AP3 hits, say 8 hits. Would you want to get no saves and take out your 2++ guy, since the majority rule would mean the two guys would be used and they get no save vs AP3 weapons. Equally unfair unfair would be to allow the 2++ to take no hits at all, or try to absorb all the hits himself.


Additionally, Dark Eldar don't have the mixed armor in their codex. So if you had DE vs an army not listing mixed armor rules, then the rules that apply would be the BBB. Essentially the only answer is allocate the hits evenly, as putting all the hits on the Archon is clearly not allowed under any of the rules options.

In the new TAR they also cover mixed armor, although a little differently. Those rules only address assaults, though. I'm sure once 4th ed is finished they will have mixed armor rules for all situations, and based on history so far, it will be 'must use the majority save'. How they plan to handle the one character in a squad who has the special save I have no idea.

 

[PapaBear]

The 'majority' rule is pretty clear in the TAR if I recall correctly. It says that all rolls to wound and saves are taken with the majority's stats, and makes no mention of exceptions. I've seen the arguement that the stronger characters are in fact weakened by their comrades, (simply because their comrades don't cover their backs as well, or something), and I agree that it's idiotic, but I think it's a fact of the TAR.

I wasn't aware of any 'majority' rules for shooting. I think majority rules for anything are rubbish.

 

[Zviper]

Thanks for the help everybody